Tree_Fish Posted September 9, 2013 Report Share Posted September 9, 2013 So after reading a post about ACC I decide to give it a try. Initially I was pretty impressed with it, its easy to mix and goes on very thin. I used syringes to measure equal parts and mixed thoroughly. I wore powder free latex gloves during the paint job and heat set every layer of paint. I took all the normal precautions, even blew them off with an airgun before the topcoat. The lures stayed on the turner over night, a good 8 hours. When I woke up this morning I gave em a look, every one of them had at least one very small spot where the ACC pulled away from the paint, leaving a small circular area with no coverage. A few of them had multiple spots like this. I also learned that if ACC gets under your eyes they will "float" out of the socket, so from now on I will be gluing the eyes in and letting them cure before topcoating. One of the baits had a bad "bubble" on the side, it almost looks like it sat in one position and the topcoat went to one side, though there is no way this could have happened as all the other lures had an even bubble free finish aside from the spots missing coverage. The coat is super clear and bubble free, I'm pretty impressed with it and if I can get it to work without the problems I think I have found my new topcoat. Any of you guys had these problems with ACC? Any recommendations? I'm going to give them a second coat tonight and see if it will cover these spots, I've got a tourney this weekend and sure would like to have these cranks ready, I tried something a little different on a couple of em and have labeled these my secret weapons lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gone2long Posted September 9, 2013 Report Share Posted September 9, 2013 Sounds to me by the way you explain it that you have what they call "fisheye" no pun intended. I did read that you used a blow gun which I assume is connected to a compressor so there is a very good possibility that either some moisture or oils from the compressor sprayed onto your baits when blowing them off. Compressors by their very nature will condense water in the process so a line dryer is an important necessity when using around anything that requires a finish that being paints and coatings of any kind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tree_Fish Posted September 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2013 I do have water traps on both my compressors. It has to be some kind of contamination I just for the life of me just cant figure out what from, I even cleaned my mixing cup with DA and let it dry before mixing the ACC. The thing that really stumps me is the one bait that acts as though it laid on its side all night : / Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted September 9, 2013 Report Share Posted September 9, 2013 You said one of the baits had a bad "bubble" on the side and that "it almost looks like it sat in one position and the topcoat went to one side". Was this an actual air bubble or was it a thick spot where excess top coat built up? If it was the latter then it is probably due to the fact that you had an excess amount of top coat on the bait. This can happen even when using a lure turner if the coating is really thin as you described. When I first started making lures I had the same thing happen with Etex. If you used gloves and did everything else you could to keep the bait clean then there is no reason you should have to use an air gun to blow the bait off before top coating. I agree with Gon2long about having an inline filter. Ideally it should be as close to your airbrush as possible because moisture can build up in the air hose between the compressor and your airbrush given the right conditions. I use a desiccant filter that removes both moisture and oil and it's located on the manifold the airbrush hoses are hooked to. I get mine at Harbor Freight and they're about $6. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tree_Fish Posted September 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2013 (edited) Ah I bet that's it Ben, this stuff goes on really thin, I tried to brush as much excess off as I could but it's possible I left a bit to much on that one. I use the Iwata and Paasche filters, they are both inline and connected as close to the airbrush as possible. Would you recommend the HF filters over the ones I am using? I bleed them off before every coat and have never seen water or oil come out of either one. On 4 of the lures there is a small patch of foil on each side of the lure, so these 4 had a devcon coat over the foil and I had to clean the eyes out with a dremel, that was the main reason for the airgun and I figured might as well blow the others off to. So am I wasting my time trying the second coat? Or should I just strip em down and start over? Edited September 9, 2013 by Tree_Fish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted September 9, 2013 Report Share Posted September 9, 2013 I agree with both Tree and Ben. Skip the air blowing step, and see if that eliminates the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted September 9, 2013 Report Share Posted September 9, 2013 I can't really comment on the Iwata and Paasche filters as I have never used them, but I would tend to think they would be adequate. Not sure if they're rated to remove oil vapor or not, but if your using an "oil less" compressor this should not be a problem. As far as the "bubble" of top coat you can sand the thick spot down until it blends in with the surrounding top coat and then just re-coat the entire lure. After leveling out the "bubble" you might want to scuff up the rest of the lure with some 400 grit sandpaper just to give the new layer something to "bite" onto. If your worried about any contaminants on the surface after you do the sanding just dip a clean artists brush in some clean denatured alcohol or acetone and "paint" it on just like you would the top coat working from head to tail and allowing the excess to drip off the tail. When your done cleaning the bait hit it with whatever you use to heat set your paint just to make sure the solvents have completely evaporated. Keep in mind you should only clean the bait with solvents if you know for sure you haven't sanded through the top coat exposing the paint layers below as this can screw up the paint job. Let me know how it works out or if I can be of any further help. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tree_Fish Posted September 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2013 After thinking about it a little more I believe my contamination came from the syringes I used to measure the ACC for mixing. They were originally used to give my dog medicine, I cleaned them out with DA but I'm thinking I should have used acetone instead or went to the store and bought some epoxy syringes. I'll try sanding and recoating the "bubble" lure tonight, what about the others? Will another coat fill the small holes where the topcoat pulled away from the paint? Or should I just fish em til they are hosed and redo them? I tried searching for ways to fix it but the only things I could find were how to avoid it. Thanks for the help guys, this is what makes TU great Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted September 9, 2013 Report Share Posted September 9, 2013 If they were my baits I would try fixing them. I would first try a "spot repair" to see if you can get your top coat to cover the original imperfection. If it takes give it time to cure and then blend it in as described above. Then you can re-coat the entire bait. If it doesn't take then dampen (not saturate) a paper towel or clean rag with some denatured alcohol and "dab" the fisheye with it. Don't use a wiping motion as this can smear the paint. And only "dab" the bad spot a couple times with a few seconds between "dabs" so the denatured alcohol can evaporate and not build up enough to allow the paint to become wet enough to smear or be taken away by the rag. Another thing you might try is to use a small amount of super glue to repair the fisheyes. Sometimes super glue will adhere where other things won't. If the super glue solves the problem it's just a matter of sanding the repair and top coating over it. Keep in mind that cured super glue is much, much harder than most top coats so use caution when leveling it out with sandpaper as you can sand away the area around the super glue before you actually get the repair spot leveled out. For things like this I take a tongue depressor and glue sandpaper to it. This allows you the ability to see exactly what area is being sanded since the spot being repaired will be higher than the surrounding area. By trying a "spot" repair you really haven't lost much if it doesn't work as you would be no worse off than if you just went ahead and fished them until the paint job was toast. That is if the lure your working on isn't made of wood. Any water penetration on a wood lure can cause the body to swell, crack and end up pretty much useless. good luck, Ben p.s. Developing a "ritual" for how you build, seal, paint and finish lures is invaluable. Once you have something that works and performs to your standards then you should never vary from it. This includes using your syringes for giving Fido his meds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tree_Fish Posted September 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2013 Thanks Ben you're a lifesaver! I've got my rituals for etex and Devcon I'm just new to the ACC. It's thin enough I probably could have just used mixing cups instead of the syringes but being my first go round I wanted to make sure I had a good mix. I'm going to try the touch ups tonight and see if I can't get a couple more painted and coated with the ACC using the revised method, if I can get it to work it's definitely what I'll be using from now on... Or at least til the next new topcoat comes along I'm hoping we'll have some good news on the concrete sealer here pretty soon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted September 9, 2013 Report Share Posted September 9, 2013 You can find cheap epoxy syringes here: http://www.flexcoat.com/products/supplies-accessories/color-coded-syringes/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted September 9, 2013 Report Share Posted September 9, 2013 Tree, For mixing my epoxies I use the little plastic cups like the ones they give you your pills in when in the hospital. They have graduated marks on the sides of them which makes getting equal parts easy. You can get them at most pharmacies (at least in my area) and they're only a little over a penny apiece. Hope it all works out. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassguy Posted September 9, 2013 Report Share Posted September 9, 2013 For the little cups Ben is talking about, I checked out the local restaurant supply house which carries the little cups they use for condiments, ie: mayo, mustard that sort of thing. They don't have the graduations on the side but work really well. One batch of D2T and in the garbage. The cost is minimal for around 200 cups. Jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted September 9, 2013 Report Share Posted September 9, 2013 Good idea Jerry. Hadn't thought about those. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhersh Posted September 10, 2013 Report Share Posted September 10, 2013 Man! Im sure glad I found this forum site. All you guy's are so helpful even before I run in to the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassguy Posted September 10, 2013 Report Share Posted September 10, 2013 Good idea Jerry. Hadn't thought about those. Ben Hey Ben, neither did I, the wife made the suggestion when we were in our local "Cash and Carry". Jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted September 10, 2013 Report Share Posted September 10, 2013 Hey Ben, neither did I, the wife made the suggestion when we were in our local "Cash and Carry". Jerry Your gonna have to give that gal a raise. Ben 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robalo01 Posted September 10, 2013 Report Share Posted September 10, 2013 One thing I found when mixing Flexcoat: Clean you syringes with acetone before using. The medical ones come lubricated with silicone. It will cause fish-eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tree_Fish Posted September 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2013 Well I tried another coat, this time using the mixing cups instead of the syringes I used before. Not a single flaw out of 5 lures. I definitely like this top coat, the ease of use dictates I will be using it from now on! I'm working on trying to fix the ones with flaws from the first batch, and so far they are looking good but they are pretty much on the back burner til next week when I get back from this tourney. Big thanks to you guys for your help! I believe the cups you're referring to are called ramekins, I never thought of using these but will definitely be on the lookout for some, the little graduations on the sides of the regular ones drive me crazy lol. I mix vigorously and it tends to pop out a bit when I hit the graduations Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt M Posted September 10, 2013 Report Share Posted September 10, 2013 I mix my ACC using measuring spoons for cooking. The set cost a dollar and I keep using them. I learned from experience ACC does not mix or cure well in cold weather. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted September 11, 2013 Report Share Posted September 11, 2013 Glad it's working for you Tree. Good luck with your tourney. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tree_Fish Posted September 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2013 Thanks Ben! Headed out in the morning, I'll report back next week how the lures held up and how the tourney goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tree_Fish Posted September 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 The lures held up great! The one I fished the most got thrown into rocks quite a few times and I cranked em through rocks and timber like a madman lol. No chips and scuffed very little if at all. I'm pretty impressed with this topcoat and for 17 bucks with the hobby lobby coupon it just cant be beat IMO. The tourney on the other hand didn't go so well. Big tropical weather system rolling up the coast, half the field zeroed! Very low weights from everyone, I don't feel to bad at least I weighed fish! The guy that owned the place we stayed (has a bait shop there to) zeroed both days, if the locals can't get on em you know there's something wrong! @ Matt M What temperature did you notice difficulty at? It doesn't get to cold here in Texas but cooler weather is just around the corner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdL Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 Are you guys talking about Auto Clear Coats or Amazing Clear Cast resin? Gotta love TLAs or FLAs. My guess is Amazing Clear Cast since your discussion on measuring involves cups and syringes. Might help new guys and some of us "mature" (I refuse to be called an "old _art") to know just what product your discussing. Trying to sort out all the finishes and topcoat brands and products in the brands is almost as challenging as trying to pick out color schemes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt M Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 EDL- Amazing Clear Cast Tree Fish, I had problems around 35 or 40 degrees Fahrenheit. I live in southeast louisiana it doesn't get that cold here except on occasion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
