RayburnGuy Posted September 27, 2013 Report Share Posted September 27, 2013 To give you an example of what I'm talking about I built a bait a while ago with Dave's weighted stick idea in mind to see exactly what it would do. The goal of the build was to keep the center of gravity as close to the center of mass as possible. I ended up having to drill a small hole in the end of the diving lip so I could brad a small piece of solid core solder into it to bring the COG closer to the COM. The bait ended up having the strongest Xing action of any bait I've built so far. By having the ballast placed in such a way it allowed the front and back of the lure to swing more freely from side to side. Now this was done on a crank with a diving lip so I'm not 100% sure it applies to gliders in exactly the same way. By having the ballast located closer to the ends it may make the bait glide farther and not turn so quickly which is what seems to be the preferred action for a glider. That's my best S.W.A.G. (scientific wild a$$ guess) anyway. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted September 28, 2013 Report Share Posted September 28, 2013 To give you an example of what I'm talking about I built a bait a while ago with Dave's weighted stick idea in mind to see exactly what it would do. The goal of the build was to keep the center of gravity as close to the center of mass as possible. I ended up having to drill a small hole in the end of the diving lip so I could brad a small piece of solid core solder into it to bring the COG closer to the COM. The bait ended up having the strongest Xing action of any bait I've built so far. By having the ballast placed in such a way it allowed the front and back of the lure to swing more freely from side to side. Now this was done on a crank with a diving lip so I'm not 100% sure it applies to gliders in exactly the same way. By having the ballast located closer to the ends it may make the bait glide farther and not turn so quickly which is what seems to be the preferred action for a glider. That's my best S.W.A.G. (scientific wild a$$ guess) anyway. Ben Ben , ........this exactly seems to count for the "Heiddy" glidebait , that I had described in my post #11 above , .......only ONE weight at the center of gravity to let the lure hang level , ...the gliding and darting action is powerded by the accelerated weight , but guided by the high body portion AHEAD of the ballast , acting like some kinda unstable rudder in the water . But I am really wondering , how a lower profiled and nose pointy bait(thus not providing much of such "rudder" function) with just ONE levelling weight would act , .........I assume , that it would just dart forward more or less , with only moderate sideward moves . Wish I had the time for a comparison build , ......two slender , about willowleaf shaped flat-bodied baits , of which one with ballast FORE and AFT and the other with just ONE ballast location , ....both lures with same sink rate and both sinking at horizontal Level . Maybe some day I would , ...but too many other lure building tasks ahead right now ! @ littleriver Vic , in search of some different footage I've just found this video showing a "Manta" glide bait assumingly being worked aside of a moving boat . Due to general forward motion of the boat the glide path is very narrow(you should see it's exeptional gliding performance when worked from a fixed point) , but this video nicely displays the function of a tailfin , that you had questioned before . If you look closely , you will see , that when the lure darts sideward , the lurebody also has a tendency to roll into the direction of the line pull to waste a part of the jerk's energy into body roll instead of forward motion . But right at this moment , the tail fin hangs at an angle , both to the straight course of line pull but also to the horizontal level of the bait , ...the tail fin engages into the oncoming current and levels the lure again , so that the remaining momentum of the jerk can be changed into a pure sideward movement making up for the glide path of the bait . Without a tail fin , the lure would take longer to level out just by it's belly ballast , thus more jerk momentum is wasted and can't be used for a forward glide anymore , resulting in a generally narrower glidepath anf possibly also a lower max. gliding angle off the straight course of line pull . OK , ...finally I've still found a vid displaying the "Manta's" action worked from a fixed point : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNkuSJwu0dg Cheers, Dieter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted September 28, 2013 Report Share Posted September 28, 2013 @ Griffond Looks great , ....would have plenty of flash due to the silvery flanks , ...looking forward to the diplay video , .... ..........good luck , Dieter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted September 28, 2013 Report Share Posted September 28, 2013 (edited) Good stuff Dieter. I have a lot more free time than you do and there's still not enough time to build everything I'd like to experiment with. I don't think there's any given set of rules about how to build a glider. In my opinion you have to take into account more than just ballast location. Size, shape, thickness, etc. play a huge part as well. Is the ballast location going to be the same on a cigar shaped glider as it will on a drop belly glider? I don't think so. The gliders I've built that had a wider cross section and were tapered to both the head and tail seemed to work better. Just for kicks and giggles I built a solid, one piece bait that was over 1" thick at it's widest point. Given short twitches of the rod it had a wider and longer glide than anything else I've built. With a slow, steady pull the same bait would swim in an "S" pattern and it would do this without a lip. I believe the thickness of the head acted like a lip and gave it this Xing action on a slow retrieve. Long story short I believe the best way to learn how to build gliders is to get the basic concept down and then build a few trying different things as you go. After all, there is no shortcut for experience. Ben Edited September 28, 2013 by RayburnGuy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted September 28, 2013 Report Share Posted September 28, 2013 @ RayburnGuy I 100% agree , Ben , ...you're dead on with your statements , ....if I look closely I get to the point , that regarding the making of glide baits there are almost as many dynamics to take into consideration as there would be when planning for certain swimming or diving patterns of lipped diving baits . But one little thing for the tinkerer's comfort , ......even if a bait does not come out to perform the perfect glide 2 1/2 feet and 90° offset from the straight course , but rather does just a little Xing on the spot , they are all capable to catch fish , ...some baits more and some just less ! Greetz , Dieter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted September 28, 2013 Report Share Posted September 28, 2013 My thoughts as well Dieter. Just like it says in your signature "Each Lure Will Catch On Its Day" (Charlie Bettell). Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinman13 Posted September 28, 2013 Report Share Posted September 28, 2013 Them musky's have some nasty teeth I would not wanna get bit by one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffond Posted September 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2013 Well no video...yet I have to add some more weight to it... it looks fine sinking in a sink/laundry tub but when you put it in the lake it really doesn't sink all that well... glides nice but really doesn't sink for crap... good news is it seems to be just a touch more buoyant on the nose so I am just going to add a small weight up from the one that is already there we will see what happens... and since its raining all day to today I think I will shape out and wire up the other two I already cut out of the same design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted September 28, 2013 Report Share Posted September 28, 2013 @ Griffond That's strange , ..maybe it has to do with the water temperature , .....have you used a wire leader on both trials , sink and outdoors alike ? If not , ...your bait should hang level with a leader attached , .....if you had a leader on , you may just use a longer or thicker one , ...but only works , if the flaw isn't that much . Never happened to me ,......mine always sink faster outdoors than determined whilst blank trimming . But great to hear , that your bait obviously swims fine and still leaves room for more tinkering , ..... Good luck , .......Dieter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffond Posted September 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2013 Well my other thought was is maybe I got an air gap in the bait where I put the first weight in? I wouldn't think that would happen or cause an issue if it did... just an odd little thing... it really doesn't need much more weight I'll probably just slip a small split shot in it and it should be good to go... No big deal to me since it is a first attempt I expected there to be a few hiccups on the first one... so the next so should work out just fine... I gotta go get some more epoxy to get the rest put together.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted September 28, 2013 Report Share Posted September 28, 2013 @ Griffond Yep , ...such an accidental air enclosure might be the cause as well , ....haven't thought about such at first . Might easily happen , if the weight sits too snug in it's hole and glue can't flow everywhere . Good luck , ...Dieter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrubs Posted September 30, 2013 Report Share Posted September 30, 2013 Dieter, A quick question on the gliders you made from Muskie Pattern #2 on the luremaking site. Did you use the same body width/height ratio as the plan? Your cross section seems more squarish but that may be the angle of the photo. I'm thinking maybe 5 1/2 and 7" versions. bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted September 30, 2013 Report Share Posted September 30, 2013 Dieter, A quick question on the gliders you made from Muskie Pattern #2 on the luremaking site. Did you use the same body width/height ratio as the plan? Your cross section seems more squarish but that may be the angle of the photo. I'm thinking maybe 5 1/2 and 7" versions. bill As far as I remember I did not go after plan quite accurately , since I've used readily dimensioned dowels for my medium versions , ........for the bigger versions I had to plane down thicker dowels . But I think , that I'm quite close , as the realations of height and width must match , ...if the lure body is too wide , it won't flip over to swimming position after cast and impact , ......and if the cross section would be rather squarish , the lure might not dart downward quite well due to a lack of sideward stability. It is a simple diving pullbait , ......viewed from the side it sports a kinda "sawteeth" pattern , when constantly jerked and paused . Can't remember exact measurement , I will go down the shop tommorrow afternoon and take measurements from the different versions that I have . See ya , Dieter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 (edited) @ scrubs Hi , Bill , Just dug up some baits from my stowaway boxes down the basement , ...the smaller ones are W x H x L at 16 x 11 x 115 millimetres , the larger ones at 25 x 17 x 169 millimetres . Note the yellowing on the smaller lures of abachewood sealed by linseedoil soaking , ...so glad , that I've discovered propionate for myself now , finally thru with this mess caused by the linseed oil ! But this way one can see , where the ballast sits , ......but on the larger lures the ballast is located just behind the front hook hanger , ....but I'd strongly advise you to trim your baits in a waterbucket individually , ......if my memory serves me right , the smaller lures came out to hang nose down too much , ......at least with single strand wire leader attached , ......the larger lures do float up perfectly , just a tad nose down . Good luck , Dieter Edited October 1, 2013 by diemai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrubs Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 (edited) Thanks very much Dieter. I've wanted to do a Suick Thriller and with my being basically lazy this is so much easier. Think I'll "steal" a couple of those paint schemes too. bill Edited October 1, 2013 by scrubs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 Thanks very much Dieter. I've wanted to do a Suick Thriller and with my being basically lazy this is so much easier. Think I'll "steal" a couple of those paint schemes too. bill Hahaha , exactly my own motivation , ......good luck , mate , ........the pattern on top lure has been sprayed utilizing rubber-O-rings slid over the lure blank acting as some kinda masking , got some more lures painted this way on the older pages of my gallery uploads . Good luck , Dieter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffond Posted October 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 Nice looking lures Dieter been super busy lately so I haven't had much time to get to working on mine again... to many irons in the fire per say... I have decided that this jerk bait, the one I drew up and a narrow body version I found that looks kinda like solarbaits are the three I am going to mess with for now... I am kinda limited on tools around here so that is part of it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted October 1, 2013 Report Share Posted October 1, 2013 @ Griffond ............too familiar to such , .......so many lures , so little time , ....fully understand about the need to set preferences . ...........but on the other hand , ...how would it be like , if we'd ever run out of ideas and inspirations for future builds ? Good luck furthermore , ...greetz , Dieter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleriver Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 Thank you Dieter for the videos of the manta. It too seems to have a fast turn. 90 degrees on one twitch but I see what you mean by the fin keeping the bait from spinning and focusing the baits energy forward. that is something i am very much interested in. Plan on doing some experiments eventually in this area too. I studied most of the gliders on the lure making page. Most of them are two weight gliders. I think the Heiddy is the exception with one central weight. I made two gliders. One similar to yours Griffond . Looks very similar to the Heiddy but I made mine with two weights. I made it with two weights after my first attempt with a single weight turned to easy for my taste. Both lures have a nice hunting s pattern when slowly reeled but the two weight was a touch less turney but still still did not get the long glide I was hoping for. Both baits are made from aztec deck board or a similar product. I have to thank JBlaze for this piece I am working with. I like it as a bait but hate working with it. Hard hard hard hard . But makes a great bait. I used it mainly because it was heavier than the paulownia I normally use for baits. Anyway glad to report both baits catch fish . Sad to report one is lost to the lake. Infact both caught fish on their first trip to Douglas lake within the first 1/2 hour of fishing them. I considered any catch a good one with conditions tough as fish are supended now and . Not much action on top to be seen and not much on bottom. I think I got lucky . Here is a couple photos of the baits with their catch. The brown Heiddy looking bait is the two ballast lure . I fished it the first day and like I said it caught a fish right away. On day two this bait caught a fisty bluegill smaller than the lure and day three I lost the lure in a freak accident . managed to save the rod but the lure is gone. With it gone, I started using the second lure which happens to be the first glide I made with one central weight. Guess what it too caught a fish right away. Neither are exactly the action I wanted but the fish did not mind. I will keep trying to make myself happy anyway. I ran out of time to paint these baits proper before my little vacation to the lake. So, I employed some of Mark's down and dirty painting techniques. Grabbed a LAST MINUTE .75 cent bottle of clear glitter nail polish at the checkout at the dollar general just before we reached the campsite. I had my topcoat but was really desperate to come up with something to paint these lures with . The foam board was white already so no base coat was needed. Best I could do was some left over crayons from one of our visits to the steakhouse. The kids were kind enough to loan me a couple. I can't argue with the results Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 You can't argue with success Vic. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 Two thumbs up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffond Posted October 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 nice I am gonna end up putting a second weight in my first glide bait that I pictured earlier I am thinking we are gonna have to make that jerkbait/glide bait cook book here pretty soon since everyone is making them now lol. I am suprised Solarbaits hasn't added his two sense on making gliders on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted October 4, 2013 Report Share Posted October 4, 2013 @ littleriver Congrats on you success , Vic , nice fish these are ! Too bad , that you have lost one of your lures , ...but I guess , you would have been more mad , if the rod+reel were gone as well ! Anyway , ......it looks like smaller glide baits are making their way into bass anglers lure boxes as well now ! @ Griffond I guess , "solarbaits" is not that active on the forums anymore , haven't seen a post by him for a while now . Greetz , Dieter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrubs Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 Made up a couple of the #2 jerkbaits from the link Dieter posted. I like the look of the ultra simple impressionistic trout top one. Bottom one has Reinke flash. http://www.tackleunderground.com/community/index.php?/gallery/image/12009-jerks-2/ bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleriver Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 Look great bill!! How do they swim? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
