Glide Bait Talk

[diemai]

@ littleriver

 

I had also considered about using playdough ,Vic , .....but since it is kinda greasy , it put me off so far , I'm having concerns about proper putty , glue , -and paint adhesion at finally assembly  .

 

Greetz , Dieter

[littleriver]

@ littleriver

 

I had also considered about using playdough ,Vic , .....but since it is kinda greasy , it put me off so far , I'm having concerns about proper putty , glue , -and paint adhesion at finally assembly  .

 

Greetz , Dieter

 

Your not kidding. Playdough is slicker than baby's bottom with the mess to boot when wet. Not sure I 'll be using in the future but for now I will until I find something better. 

[mark poulson]

Ok, so Mark's Roach shamed me into getting going on my Divani VGII glider again. It's a smaller 3 1/2" version of the one here:

 

http://www.lurebuilding.nl/indexeng.html

 

under jerkbaits/hybrids. I tried calculating the weight but I was way off. My calculated weight was 15 gms but it ends up at 24 to float properly. Anyway that 24 gms is sealed with all hardware but no paint or Devcon 2T. It floats just like the illustration on the webpage. So I'm thinking I need to take a little ballast out. But how much and will it change the float seeing as the ballast is way forward in the bait. It has an even fatter front end than the Roach. Ideas appreciated.

 

beginner bill

 

Sorry if I caused you pain.  Hahaha

Since smaller gliders are soooo sensitive, I'd suggest you trace out your bait's profile on a piece of paper like I did, and mark the locations of the ballast exactly.

Then go ahead and paint and top coat the lure, so it's at it's finished weight.

If it just barely floats when you're done, try casting it and see if the shape of the lure, and the weight of the line, are enough to get it to glide just under the surface on the retrieve.  If it doesn't you can always wrap a little lead wire around both the front and back trebles, to keep it level in the water, until it just barely sinks, and try it again.  I take a spool of the lead wire with me to my test pond, so I add weight during the testing.  If that's what it needs, you can super glue the wire to the hook shanks, and it'll stay forever.

If it sinks after you've finished it, put the lure back over the tracing, mark where the two ballast locations are, and drill a small hole in the center of both ballast areas, a little at a time, to lighten it.

Take two different setups with you to test fish it, one with fluorocarbon line and one with mono.  They will affect the buoyancy of the lure differently, and one or the other may be enough to get it to work the way you're looking for.

Good luck.

[scrubs]

Thanks Mark sounds like a plan. Do you use braid at all? I've pretty much switched to Power Pro except for #2 and #4 for trout fishing. Use Trilene XL for that. Now that you mention line I wonder if the soft braid is why my musky/pike lures foul a lot.

 

bill

[mark poulson]

Thanks Mark sounds like a plan. Do you use braid at all? I've pretty much switched to Power Pro except for #2 and #4 for trout fishing. Use Trilene XL for that. Now that you mention line I wonder if the soft braid is why my musky/pike lures foul a lot.

 

bill

 

That's what I found, too, when I used straight braid on my walking baits.  I still use braid, but I add a 7'+- leader of 20lb mono, because it is stiffer and fouls less.

I'm planning to use either fluoro or mono, in 20lb test, depending on how slow/fast I want my glider to sink.

[mark poulson]

I tried the Roach glider on 17lb fluoro.

It only fouled once in a couple of dozen casts, and that was on a very erratic retrieve, a combination of long pulls and quick jerks that threw a lot of slack in front of the bait.

I had 17 spooled on a reel, so that's what I used. I'm sure that it would foul even less with 20lb.

I did not get bit.  Dumb fish!

[diemai]

I had 17 spooled on a reel, so that's what I used. I'm sure that it would foul even less with 20lb.

I did not get bit.  Dumb fish!

...........next time ,  Mark !

 

Greetz , Dieter

[mark poulson]

Thanks Dieter.

If I have time this week I'm going to make a couple more Roach-type gliders.  The original profile is very deep, 1 3/8" tall, and that lends itself to sunfish patterns, like bluegill and crappie.

I think the deep belly is what makes it more stable on the glide, but I'm going to try a shorter one, too, something like  1 1/8", to get me closer to a threadfin shad profile, which is the dominant prey on our local lakes.

Fingers crossed!

[scrubs]

Thanks Dieter.

If I have time this week I'm going to make a couple more Roach-type gliders.  The original profile is very deep, 1 3/8" tall, and that lends itself to sunfish patterns, like bluegill and crappie.

I think the deep belly is what makes it more stable on the glide, but I'm going to try a shorter one, too, something like  1 1/8", to get me closer to a threadfin shad profile, which is the dominant prey on our local lakes.

Fingers crossed!

I think I may use either the Divani or Roach to try the tissue over foil method for a realistic bluegill. Only problem is the amount of ink my Epson printer sucks up. :-/ 

 

bill

[mark poulson]

Bill,

I'm computer limited, with capitals, so I've never tried the photo/tissue method, but the baits I've seen people here do with that method are truly works of art.

I envy your competence.

I'm hoping my painting over the foil will suffice to fool the fish.

Good luck, and post your results here.

[diemai]

 @ mark poulson , @ scrubs

 

Hope that your projects are going to work out for the both of you , ......last night at my shiftwork I had a fancy idea about a reverse running glidebait , roughly fish shaped with an insinuated tail fin , to which the line tie would be attached  .

 

I would even taper the flanks towards the tail fin , so that the most buoancy of the timber blank would be in the rear , much more ballast could be placed there then to let the lure dart sharply sideward .

 

........at least that's the theory  .....!

 

Gonna start out a prototype these days or maybe next weekend , ...I shall see .

 

Greetz , Dieter

[scrubs]

Bill,

I'm computer limited, with capitals, so I've never tried the photo/tissue method, but the baits I've seen people here do with that method are truly works of art.

I envy your competence.

I'm hoping my painting over the foil will suffice to fool the fish.

Good luck, and post your results here.

Well I spent a little time yesterday after watching my NFL team get whacked on some test prints. Thin minnow lures would be fine with dace, perch and fathead type patterns. But the bluegill & crappie are totally different in shape than the Roach & Divani. Much thinner at the nose & tail. So this is something I'd have to think about before carving the lure.

[mark poulson]

 @ mark poulson , @ scrubs

 

Hope that your projects are going to work out for the both of you , ......last night at my shiftwork I had a fancy idea about a reverse running glidebait , roughly fish shaped with an insinuated tail fin , to which the line tie would be attached  .

 

I would even taper the flanks towards the tail fin , so that the most buoancy of the timber blank would be in the rear , much more ballast could be placed there then to let the lure dart sharply sideward .

 

........at least that's the theory  .....!

 

Gonna start out a prototype these days or maybe next weekend , ...I shall see .

 

Greetz , Dieter

 

Backwards lures!  Now you're starting to scare me.      

[diemai]

Backwards lures!  Now you're starting to scare me.      

 

Rushed to get the blank done at my last day weekend shift  last night , .....now soaking in propionate , ..can't weight for a first blank test to see , whether it would perform at all .

 

Greetz , Dieter

[mark poulson]

I made a couple more gliders with the same size, but with the ballast spread farther apart, and posted them in the Hard Baits gallery.

By spreading the ballast farther apart, 1/3+- of the way in from each end, they have a much gentler glide.  They will walk the dog if I do that kind of medium jerk, jerk retrieve.

I also made a 7" trout glider, but I spread the ballast too far, and it didn't glide.  So I moved the ballast in closer to the middle of the bait.  As soon as I get a chance to test swim it, I'll report back.

Edited November 13, 2013 by mark poulson

[littleriver]

@mark 

 

I found line tie position to be a critical element. My two weight  glider in the gallery was dead stick on initial swim but after moving the line tie it was the action I was after. By movement of tie,  I mean up and down. Most of the two weight glider baits in the link Dieter provided have the ballast at the extreme ends of the bait. When this is done the ballast naturally gets closer to the line tie position because the bait is narrowest at it's ends. When the ballast is too much in line with the line tie, the bait would not turn. Certainly moving ballast will fix the problem but so will moving the line tie. 

Edited November 14, 2013 by littleriver

[mark poulson]

@mark 

 

I found line tie position to be a critical element. My two weight  glider in the gallery was dead stick on initial swim but after moving the line tie it was the action I was after. By movement of tie,  I mean up and down. Most of the two weight glider baits in the link Dieter provided have the ballast at the extreme ends of the bait. When this is done the ballast naturally gets closer to the line tie position because the bait is narrowest at it's ends. When the ballast is too much in line with the line tie, the bait would not turn. Certainly moving ballast will fix the problem but so will moving the line tie. 

 

I hadn't thought about line tie location.  I was thinking the problem was with the ballast, and the fact that the trout doesn't have a deep belly, like the Roach.  Moving the ballast was such an easy fix in my Roach baits, I assumed it would work for the trout, too.

I was lazy, and used a trout blank I had already cut out for a jointed swimbait that doesn't have a deep belly.

If moving the ballast doesn't make the bait glide, I will try raising the line tie up to the forehead, and see if that helps.

Thanks.

[Pickadoll]

This is how my new Jerkbait tail performs in the water. What do you think??

[diemai]

This is how my new Jerkbait tail performs in the water. What do you think??

 

 

Perfect gliding action , I'd say , ......this is how a glidebait is supposed to swim  !

 

I'm always wondering , how some fellas get access to seemingly public indoor swimming pools for luretesting , ......or you just go early Sunday morning , when people are still sleeping and take your rod and lures along   , ......in this case the staff would surely think , that you're completely crazy    !

 

Greetz , diemai

[littleriver]

@Pickadoll

 

I second that "Perfect"      . The bait is still gliding while waiting for the next twitch. Seems an eternity. Really good i think. They don't call it a glide bait for nothing. I have to wonder how long it would glide without the tail. Thanks for sharing!

[Pickadoll]

Yes, I think its close to perfect. Actually, this is my first glide bait that has worked this good. This kind of hang belly lures are pretty easy to do.

I know a girl that works on that public swiming place but everyone there looked at me as I was a lunetic !

Without a tail the lure turn almost 180 degrees to the sides but glides very short. It just turns. If I made the same shape but a longer bait instead of the tail if would have glide long to the sides.

Now I am going to paint the first lure that someone has ordered ever !
Thank you guys ! 

[diemai]

@ Pickadoll

 

I need glasses  , did not figure out about a tail on the lures , ....only saw , that it's glide was perfect !

 

So your remarks of the lure action with and without the tail attached are very interesting to me , as I've always thought , that a grub's tail attached to a glider would slow down the glide of a bait , rather act like a parachute to it .

 

But now I figure out , that it must provide a certain grade of guidance in the water to the lure , thus it does glide better  into a wider glide path , .......that tail is probably somewhat comparable to the flights of an arrow !

 

Clear to me , that without the tail the lures turns 180° , as the lengthwise guiding lacks this way .

 

But probably it also depends on the shape of the tail , a rather slender kinda worm tail would provide less resistance , wheras a wider one of a monster grub type would produce more drag .

 

Anyway , very interesting , ......thanks a lot to share your findings and for opening my eyes  , ........live and learn , now I might make try to make one as well ,  .......greetz , diemai

[mark poulson]

I also added feathered/flashabou trebles to my Roach gliders, and it did calm the glide turn down.  I like how it "tamed" the first glider I made, so it glides instead of turning radically on a twitch, twitch spook retrieve, and how they flare on the pause.

I think it acts like a tail on a kite, lending stability.

But I learned that feathered trebles can affect action too much when I put some on spook-type baits a while back.  I had to trim the feathers down to even with the hook bends to get the side to side action back on some of them.

I haven't tried to add plastic baits as tails on topwaters, but I do use worms as true tails on my rat wake baits, and they lend an intriguing, very visible wiggle to the bait's action.

[ArdentAngler]

Funny you say that about the pool area, I asked the apartment manager if I could swim some lures in the recreational pool to study them and got shot down...its been awkward paying rent ever since. Why can't they except the fact that fisherman are eccentric and do weird things?

 

My wife walked in one day and found me in the living room with all my fishing tackle scattered around me, she walked up to me patted me on the head and said that I was "special". Not sure what to make of this???

 

By the bye @pickadoll that lure has a great action

[Pickadoll]

Okey, this was a lot of reading and English is not my first language ! I am using exactly the same tail as on this lure -------> http://www.dogger.se/beten/tails--gummibeten/svartzonker-mcmy-c-1201-1.aspx

Yes the lure didn't work very good without a tail but I now remember one thing. When weighing this lure it sank with its head down without the tail and with the tail it sank horizontal. The lure could have worked better without tail with a proper weighing but it would probably not have so looooong glides to the sides. I think a Grub tail wouldnt work as good as this tail works. The grub tail is so fat on the back part, at least what I can se on the photos. But using a knife to make it thinner (on the hight) would work. I think the shape of the tail is very important.