djhaddix Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 Hey guys, I visit this site daily but haven't contributed much to the conversations due to my limited experience. That being said, fall is here and winter is approaching, which means I am about to head to the shop and continue to learn to build crankbaits (typically balsa). So, I have searched the forums and read for countless hours, and maybe I am just too dense to realize the answer is in front of me, but I can't for the life of me figure out how assemble a crankbait with the line tie placed in the diving bill of a crankbait using thru-wire construction. Now, I have studied the forums and I understand how thru-wire construction is done, and I have made quite a few balsa crankbaits using thru-wire that have been great fish-catching baits for me (thanks to all of you, of course!). However, the lures I have been making have all had the line tie above the bill, not placed on the bill. So I guess to make a long question short, how are you assembling the crankbait with the tie in the bill using thru-wire construction? When do you glue the bill in? Before or after you have completed the thru-wire harness and ballast in the lure? I am sure this comes easy to come of you, and I typically consider myself a pretty bright guy, but this is baffling me. Thanks for your time reading the post and for any insight you guys can give me. The wealth of knowledge on here, and the willingness to help total strangers, is fantastic. I can't thank you all enough for sharpening the learning curve for the rest of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffond Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 First question I have is are you using two halves of the wood to make the bait or cutting a slot in the bottom of a solid bait? Either way doesn't really matter that much I just know from reading around and looking at everything around each have there good and bad sides to doing what your asking about... from my own research I would use a slot in the bottom... cut the lip slot before putting in the wire... make sure you cut a slot in the bottom of the lip... attach the lip and then put your wire in the bottom of the bait and up into the lip I drew a really crappy picture in paint one time that gives an idea of this... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 Seems like Dieter (Diemai) has done a video of how he does this. You might try a search of his videos to see what you can come up with. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffond Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 I looked around on youtube on his channel didn't find one so we will have to wait and see what he says... I know about amonth ago or so we had a similar conversation about this as well thou... There was this thread ... http://www.tackleunderground.com/community/index.php?/topic/26898-how-do-you-you-attach-your-lips/ and there was this one that Dieter has some really nice pics in for thru wire on crankbaits with large lips http://www.tackleunderground.com/community/index.php?/topic/26845-how-can-i-make-my-own-dive-lips-with-the-line-tie-in-it/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 I looked around on youtube on his channel didn't find one so we will have to wait and see what he says... I know about amonth ago or so we had a similar conversation about this as well thou... There was this thread ... http://www.tackleunderground.com/community/index.php?/topic/26898-how-do-you-you-attach-your-lips/ and there was this one that Dieter has some really nice pics in for thru wire on crankbaits with large lips http://www.tackleunderground.com/community/index.php?/topic/26845-how-can-i-make-my-own-dive-lips-with-the-line-tie-in-it/ I could be wrong about him having a video about this particular aspect of through wiring. I was working from memory and sometimes my memory doesn't work so well these days. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djhaddix Posted October 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 Thanks for the help so far guys, it is appreciated. Griffond - I typically glue two halves together for the thru-wire harness. But, I am intrigued by the simplicity of doing it the way you stated. Perhaps I wasn't really clear about what I was asking, and it may take me a couple of tries to get it out, but my question is regarding using the thru-wire when using two halfs glued together. I guess I am asking what order to start glueing things. For instance, once I have drilled the hole in the bill (I use Lexan currently, but will certainly be looking into micarta), do I form the line tie first or wait until last after I have formed the rest of the harness? Should the lip be glued in when I am glueing the two halves together after placing the harness and ballast in the lure? Hopefully these questions illustrate what I am seeking. I just am not sure of the order to do things in. I know that everyone has their own methods, and I am certainly willing to listen to anyone, as most of you have vastly more experience than me. Who knows, maybe someone with experience may learn another way of doing this that is better than the way they currently do it. For instance, here is a flat-sided test crankbait I made from balsa, being two halves joined together with ballast (well, most of it, hence the lead tape to try to see how much more I needed) and the line tie in the nose of the lure. I feel like I can do this fairly well, but I can't figure out how I would do this with the line tie in the bill. Thanks again to you all for your patience, and for helping a rookie learn the ropes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffond Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 Ok here is what I would do... I am sure there are better people here that know way more then me thou... You have your two shaped halfs... your lip slot cut, your ballast has its place picked out in the body that the wire with either go around or thru would be my guess... I would put the cut lexan lip on the wire first then close the two halves around your ballast and the lip/wire glue it all together and you should be good to go... Did you check out that second thread I posted about there is a ton of good info in that about this... essentially I would start with the small stuff first... after you already have a formed lure body with lip slot cut but its still in two halves... make sure to press the two pieces of balsa together with the wire between so it makes its indent before you glue it so everything fits nice when you do glue it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 I attach everything together on one harness typically when doing two piece baits. Bad image but ..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffond Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 How are those bad images? lol looks really good and straight forward Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 The scanned image was the bad one but I keep forgetting how small the images end up being once posted.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djhaddix Posted October 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 Thanks so much for the replies to everyone. So I think I am getting the idea now. Basically, I believe the consensus is to form the line tie first in the lip, then form the rest of the thru-wire harness for the body of the bait. Place ballast, harness, and lip in the bait and glue it all together at once. Did I miss anything? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted October 10, 2013 Report Share Posted October 10, 2013 I bet you could even do the through wire in two pieces, with U shaped connections, since you're going to embed it all in epoxy when you glue the two halves together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted October 12, 2013 Report Share Posted October 12, 2013 I like the idea of thru-wiring but it's a PITA to get the wire harness correct in every dimension. The main thing to me is reinforcing the balsa bait with a tough epoxy backbone. I don't feel the wire harness needs to be one piece since it is firmly imbedded in the backbone - so I just use longer than normal twisted wire hangers fitted in grooves in the balsa so the halves of the bait can be fitted together without pressure. I've never had a bait fail or a piece of hardware pull out, so that seems "good enough for government work". Almost all of the balsa bait failures I've seen are the head breaking off above the lip slot when the baits were slapped on the water to remove weeds. True thru-wiring won't prevent that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted October 12, 2013 Report Share Posted October 12, 2013 I like the idea of thru-wiring but it's a PITA to get the wire harness correct in every dimension. The main thing to me is reinforcing the balsa bait with a tough epoxy backbone. I don't feel the wire harness needs to be one piece since it is firmly imbedded in the backbone - so I just use longer than normal twisted wire hangers fitted in grooves in the balsa so the halves of the bait can be fitted together without pressure. I've never had a bait fail or a piece of hardware pull out, so that seems "good enough for government work". Almost all of the balsa bait failures I've seen are the head breaking off above the lip slot when the baits were slapped on the water to remove weeds. True thru-wiring won't prevent that. Makes sense. For straight pull out, the line or knot would break before that epoxy failed, and most balsa baits are so light they don't have enough mass to provide leverage for a fish to use when it shakes it's head, like a big swimbait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djhaddix Posted October 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2013 Good stuff guys! This thread has lead me to believe that I should explore some other avenues rather than the traditional thru-wire harness. I really like the idea of the twisted wire hangers being added in indentions in the inside of the lure. This makes total sense to me and will probably be how I go about making the next few lures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 (edited) Just bear in mind that the lighter/more buoyant the balsa, the weaker it usually is. That's why people turned to thru wire construction in the first place. But if you add a thick enough layer of epoxy down the center of the bait to really make it stronger, so you can use an alternate method to thru wire, it's probably going to make the lure heavier/less buoyant/less active, so you lose the very characteristic that makes balsa such a great lure wood to begin with. Guys like BobP do stuff for a reason. I'm just sayin'...... Edited October 15, 2013 by mark poulson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 The balsa I've used for some time now is very light 'competition balsa' which is about as strong as styrofoam and requires significant reinforcement, both exterior and interior to make a durable bait. My hardware is long enough that the terminal ends of the line tie, belly hanger, and tail hanger are not very far apart once the bait is assembled, so I'm using about the same amount of epoxy that would be used in a true thru-wire bait when I glue it together. Basically I just don't see how a continuous thru-wire frame offers a significant advantage on a bass bait where the halves are 100% glued together. If a bass is ever strong enough to tear a balsa bait in half - he can have the tail and the treble hook for a souvenir. No takers so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffond Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 Yeah I can't see a bass having enough power to bite one in half... if a muskie hit one that would be a different story or perhaps a large northern pike... but even then I am guessing your using D2T or something close to glue this all together I doubt a fish could split the halfs myself...or pull the back hook hanger out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 Years ago I used to gather lathe turning timber from the local bi-monthly scrap collections , people would put old furniture pieces and all sorts of other garbage at roadside to be collected . I was after table and stool legs of beechwood , and I can tell you , that it takes a whole lotta brute force to take a well done bond of ordinary wood glue apart , often the surrounding timber would crack up around the bond , but the glue would hold up ! In a nutshell , .......I would not have any concerns about a well made lure of two halves coming apart , no matter whether glued with epoxy or wood glue , ....rather the balsa lurebody might snap , if too much tapered down the tail or nose . On a German site there have been discussions recently about such often happening to "Rapala Tail Dancers" , ....hijacked the pictures for you guys around here : PS : When using woodglue to bond two-piece lures , make sure to use WATERPROOF woodglue , at least over here there also is a non waterproof type around ! Greetz , Dieter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffond Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 Must be some monster fish to do that... I've had 12lb pike on tail dancers and never had one do that... I do have to say thou that Rapala has really gotten cheap on there lures of the past few years... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 Must be some monster fish to do that... I've had 12lb pike on tail dancers and never had one do that... I do have to say thou that Rapala has really gotten cheap on there lures of the past few years... Just read that thread over again , ......the guy that posted those pictures said , that the failure happens , when netting pike attached to the tail treble and the vacant points of that treble get stuck into the net same time the pike twisting , ......the thin balsa tail end of the lure can't take the occuring leverage ! But another fella also replied there , that amongst some trolling anglers , that he knows , this lure model would be infamous for failing this way , though not specifying about the exact cause of the failure . Greetz , Dieter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 Maybe they could try using a good Spro swivel, with an anchor wire extended into the bait, for their tail hook hangers. I use swivels for hook hangers on some of my swimbaits and poppers, and they hold fine in PVC. An sst wire hooked through one end of the swivel and extended into the lure body should keep the swivel well anchored, and the swivel will lessen the leverage a fish has on it in the net. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 @ mark poulson Mark , ...really a good idea about the svivel , maybe one should also just switch it between hookeye and hook right from the start for preventation , ........got two or three "Taildancers" somewhere , ....I will do that , if I could ever find them . Thanks for input , Mark , ....greetz , Dieter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffond Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 Yeah Dieter doesn't have tackle boxes or bags... he has a tackle SHED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 Yeah Dieter doesn't have tackle boxes or bags... he has a tackle SHED Hahaha It's a good thing his wife also likes to fish, or he'd be out in the shed, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
