Vodkaman Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Very nice eye wire solutions Dieter. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanlures Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 Dave; Happy to see you chime in, you always bring something to the discussion. David J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted November 25, 2015 Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 I don't have anything to contribute, except to say that there are no rules in lure design, just problems and solutions. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted November 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) Hi , Dave and David , Blanks are still warm from sanding , .....here are the pics , that I had promised , ...two "Rush Tango" knock-offs made after the measurements(or better said , measurement relations)taken from genuine vintage "Rush Tangos" ,.......my versions are 130mm and 143mm in over all length respectively. Made detail shots of the line tie wire form and their fittings , made by drilling three holes 1,5mm dia. in line and then extended to a slot with a 1,5mm dia. router bit . Certainly it is not neccessary to drill the holes , that hold the wire form's backward bent tag ends , all the way back through the lip , .....I was just careless to break through , ...but also it does not matter at all , as all is going to be covered in 5min epoxy glue later and glue remainders worked flush again , once the blanks would have been sealed with propionate . In opposition to a screw eye line tie(which would be difficult to assemble through the narrow and sharply angled diving lip) , these wire forms even reinforce the lip, as they pass almost all the way over it's bottom to connect the single woodgrain fibres , ..........BTW , .....it is very important to cut the lip plane in a way , that line tie wire form and belly screw eyes would ALWAYS pass CROSSWISE to the woodgrain , .....this provides greatest possible strength , both of diving vane and screw eye fittings . Not quite sure , whether sufficiently visible , but I've made and placed the wire forms in a way , that the upward bend of the attachement eye would come to sit at the level of the lengthwise center axis of the rear main part of the lurebody , .........I'm pretty much sure , that it would work out this way to make up for a nice , stable swimming action and a dive of 8-10 feet ,...... I did not dare to place the tow eye further upward the lip plane not to have the lures to swim on their sides or even blow out . The lures might dive a tad deeper with tow eyes placed further upward , but also are pretty much likely to turn over , might get to swim unstable to the extend of blow-out ,.......with a lower tow eye(placed towards the tip of the lip) they would swim stable , though , ......but not dive as deep and also won't wiggle as pronounced and at a lower frequency . Any belly ballast(to render an unstable lure to swim straight and true) on such lures sporting integrated diving vanes turned out to be counterproductive , since it slows down the wiggle significantly ,.......such integrated lips simply do not protrude downward over the lurebody that much compared to added plastic or metal diving lips , so in result not so much leverage around the tow eye can be generated by the oncoming water pressure ,.......these integrated vanes simply don't produce enough force to swing any added belly ballast around compared to lures having added diving lips hanging down below their noses . It's always a little gamble to determine about the best location of the line tie , ......the spot , where it does make up for the best possible wiggle and deepest possible dive(famous US angler Joe Bucher refers to this particular best line tie location as the "sweet spot" in his book "Crankbait Secrets") ,...and these "Rush Tango" type lures do have the disadvantage, that hardly any tweaking on the tow eye would be possible , apart from bending the tow eye left or right to tune the lure , .......or , ......change a screw eye line tie entirely by disassembling , closing the old hole with an epoxied in toothpick and drill a new pilot hole on a different location ,....possibly with all over new painting and topcoating involved ! Regarding different timbers for lures , ........as a rule of thumb, .....the lest buoyant a given timber species is , the less pronounced it's swimming action would be , more buoyant woods vice versa . It is of advantage to select the timber material accordingly to the type and size of lure , one intends to make ,....also one would have to consider about added working efforts on certain timbers , namely hardwoods . The bigger and more voluminous a lure , the lest buoyant the timber material should be ,..f.e. it won't make any sense , to make a fatter 6"+ minnow diver out of balsa , as it requires to be overloaded with lead ballast to achieve a reasonable diving depth(and too much belly ballast spoils the wiggle , about 30% of the neccessary ballast would have to be placed in the back portion in this case , ..been there , done that , ....it's a pain in the butt to balance such lure !) On the other hand , ...making a small 2 1/2" floating deep diver out of a dense and heavy hardwood would most likely lead into a reject ,as alone the weight of lip and hardware would render such lure into a sinker,..not to talk of possibly neccessary ballast . Guess , that I said it before somewhere recently , ......there are so endlessly many options and variables about luremaking , .......it's a constant learning curve , and thus never gets boring ! Guess, that I would not complete these two teakwood "Tango" lures that fast now , though , ...still have some other , different in process as well ,...won't be able to fish them this year anymore , anyway , as we have a lurefishing closing time as from January 1st on around here ,...season opens again May 1st , ....always using this winter break for intense lure making year after year ! Thanks a lot , .....best greetings , Dieter PS : maybe not quite clear in the pictures , .....the longer tag end of the wire form sits in the rear of the diving lip , the shorter end in front , ...naturally ! Edited November 25, 2015 by diemai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 These lures have such elegant shape. I did a lot of experimenting with forward face mounted lips. I found that the lures generated less action than regular, slot mounted lips. The reason being that the water spilled over the lip more easily, not being trapped by the notch between lip and body. If you wanted more action, then a deflector shape as shown below would force the water out sideways, generating more energy. I never got around to building a one piece carved body/lip combo, but thought about it a lot. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted November 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 (edited) @Vodkaman I'm kinda fascinated about their shape , too , .....don't now why , is it the streamlined shape or the beauty of simplicity ? But in my opinions bare of any certain knowledge in physics I have to disagree to your stated cause , why such lures sporting a deflector plane on their diving vane have a more pronounced action . I believe , that the reason for more wobbling action is , that with a deflector plane the tow eye can be placed further upward the diving plane , thus more leverage around the tow eye is generated . As I've stated in my post above , a lure with a line tie placed higher , would normally tend to overturn and blow out , .........BUT this deflector plane counterworks , because as the lure starts to roll over , the respectively upward pointing sharp corners of the diving plane transisting into the deflector plane are increasingly shouldering into the oncoming water current forcing the lure to roll back towards vertical swimming level(and then roll over to the opposite side and repeat vice versa to make up for the wobble) . This is my own explanation about the purpose of such deflecting planes , .....in a nutshell ,.......they simply allow for a higher placement of the tow eye to get a bigger(longer) lip plane ahead of the tow eye without blow-out ! Picked some pictures and videos to display such lure models mentioned in this post : http://www.tackleunderground.com/community/gallery/image/2655-curiosity/ Here the lower lure : http://www.tackleunderground.com/community/gallery/image/2654-curiosity/ A video displaying a typical so-called "Bottlehead Plug" , in some short sequences the typical diving plane can be seen : And finally a picture of a diving lure sporting a "Pikie" or "Z"-lip ,.....note the long , forward pointing lower lip portion providing a fairly strong wiggle and a 10 feet dive , ...lure is trimmed to rise at a tad more than 1 foot per second . Same thing about "Pikie" or also called "Z" lips , ...these also have this deflector plane allowing for a fairly long and even forward pointing lower lip portion up to just a few degrees off the lure'scenter axis . Greetings , Dieter Edited November 26, 2015 by diemai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 Interesting. The lure in the video is very like my sketch. As for the shape, my guess is that if you put a selection of lures on a table, the bottle plug would be the one that people would want to pick up and feel in their hands. The testing that I did on front face lip mounting were among my very first tests. My lure knowledge was very small back then. Perhaps it is something that needs adding to my list of future experiments. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanlures Posted November 26, 2015 Report Share Posted November 26, 2015 Had a great day on the lake yesterday I caught a nice keeper small mouth on a bait I painted, but the two guys I went with loaded the boat. Didn't catch anything on my tangos but the guys told me the water was to warm and that the tangos would be a good bait in another month or so, but my custom painted cranks were the winners of the day. Dieter I See you have been busy, those look fantastic, one of the guys I work with has a couple of these originals that he is bringing me to look at, so in the interim of the thanksgiving weekend it is off to the shop I go to see if I can do your tutelage any justice, thanks again David J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pescabaits Posted May 8, 2016 Report Share Posted May 8, 2016 Hi , Folks , After having received about 600 views for that video above so far , I've thought to do a little swimming action display video of such lures as well , ......probably it might provide some more help and input on fellow tinkerers around ? greetz , Dieter hi Dieter, i can't get my lathe lures to wobble at all. tried to put in some lead, make the bills wider, etc etc. i used abachii wood what is very light, can that be the problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted May 9, 2016 Report Share Posted May 9, 2016 hi Dieter, i can't get my lathe lures to wobble at all. tried to put in some lead, make the bills wider, etc etc. i used abachii wood what is very light, can that be the problem? I suggest that you start a new thread with your problem. Post a pic of the lure, and the solutions will come thick and fast. Welcome to TU Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted May 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2016 @ pescabaits Are you that Dutch fellow angler , that had just commented on that particular YouTube clip above ? Just wrote a reply there advising you to join in here and put up some pics and describtions of your faulty lures , .......kinda funny , that you are already here , .......welcome to TU ! So well, ......please do , as Dave had told you , ....we need pictures to determine about your problems , ....most likely it would be possible to help someone out ! One thing I can already tell you , ......if your lure should be of this style sporting an integrated diving vane , any ballast would most likely do harm actionwise , ...such lures can't easily handle ballast like lures with their diving lips mounted somewhere below their chins . Also if you use material , that is too buoyant for a lure , that is too large and voluminous , it may not dive easily , as it's likely to pop back to the surface , .....but otherwise , as a rule of thumb , .......more buoyant materials do provide an easier to achieve wiggle compared to denser materials , ......but also materials must be matched to lure size and volume somehow . BUT these are just a few aspects about lure dynamics to take into consideration , ....there are a some more , but impossible to figure out without any pictures an descriptions . Greetz , Dieter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
