Hot Plastic Discoloring ?

[smallmouthaholic]

Frank- I believe we're talking about  negative color changes (turning amber and/or yellow)w/ whites/ pearls- not burning.  With all due respect-@ least you admit there is some yellowing w/ you method. i will not and do not accept yellowing in minnow type baits w/ pearl/white bellies.I also use Spike-it pourasol.

 

Edited to add: he's the 1st,original post(Painter1)- it was heated in a microwave-

 

I am having a lot of trouble with color change or "ambering".   Please see example picture below.  

Details for this pour;

8 cups CC soft clear heated in microwave. Initial heat 10 minutes
brought to gel stage.  Two intervals of 1 minute each and One interval
of 30 seconds brought temp to 312F.  Added 2 tsp heat stabilizer and
colorant (white pearlescent + violet hi-lite + black & purple flake). poured into Presto Pot (pre-heated to 200F) and turned on stirrer.

 

He's my 1st anser to those problems w/ no yellowing

 

Heat from scratch in the Presto Pot w/ stirror.Inject
@ 320 degrees into hot molds and use a hot injector. Check your pot
temperature frequently w/ an IR gun.You need to have 3-4 multi-cavity
molds to empty the pot within 8 minutes.Cut your sprues into very small
pieces and add them to the pot while you de-mold- or add them to new
plastisol while you do the initail heat-up.MF plastic has proven to be
the best (I.M.E.) for heat resistance to minimize light color changing.
Once that light color changes ,scrap the heated plastisol. Spike -it
pourasol also works well to resist light color changing.

 

Did I mention don't use a micro-wave for light colors?

 

I can shoot(inject) 102 cavities in less then 8 minutes that is precisely why the aforementioned system of mine works.

Edited November 1, 2013 by smallmouthaholic

[Frank]

He also said he uses cc plastic and that needs to be heated to 350 and brought down to your working temp. Will the presto with a stirrer get it that hot? Mine would never even get that hot if you left it on without stirring. Maybe after a couple of hours it might. You are using the plastic you use and not the one he mentioned. I am sure the plastic you are using does not yellow as much as others because it's the one that yellows the least for me. But you never put it in a clear glass and see the turn from beginning to end. You are looking at it from the top of the black pot. If you heat plastic that hot and put it in a presto pot it cools to a workable temp faster. If the presto can get that hot it would definitely turn the plastic yellow waiting to cool. His way would be the way I would have done it. But some plastic yellows as it cools.

[smallmouthaholic]

Frank,

           My P.P. will heat up to 370 w/ the stirring system operating-but would probably go higher.I never let it go to the max since i have this great adversity to wasting plastisol I'm most likely working w/ smaller batches then you are.I will not pay the price for C.C. Plastisol-period.I don't want my white/pearl colored plastic heated in a micro wave unless i have to. I've done it before successfully but not consistently. Once pearll/whites turn off color they're done and can't be brought back to a non yellowing color.

 

            I agree the hobbyist can get by w/ a basic system you described but for production,you need to spend the $ to produce consisten,qualiity colored baits is in a short period of time.Less heat in a short time frame  is paramount  to maintain  white/pearl colored soft baits I.M.O.& experience w/ hand injection systems.

 

edited for spelling

Edited November 1, 2013 by smallmouthaholic

[DAWG1419]

Maybe u could figure out why its yellowing if you know who made caney creek now do it plastisol. Maybe you will find the answer there. As for burning plastic isnt yellowing moving toward the direction of burning, scorching?? If he did micro in 30 sec burst and stir in between 30 sec burst maybe it wouldnt yellow. In the first post I think I read where he had it in the micro for 10 min then 1 min burst.

[Frank]

Smallmouth, exactly what I thought you have not used the cc plastic. So your experience is with other products and not the one mentioned. A lot of you preach about how it needs to be done but none of you show how it's done. Some say the blending block clogs on them but I have shown many many time how it does not for me. Some say you have to heat injectors and molds to shoot but I have shown how I don't and it works. Do they work better hot yes but do not need to be. I don't down play anybody's products and say it is bad, but I do show how I do it. I don't preach my way is the only way. But if you say your way is the only way to get consistent baits and I show it is not, people get twisted up. The problem this time is a plastic thing and not a microwave thing. Light colors can be done in a microwave and I do it all the time. To put a blanket on light colors have to be done in a presto and stirring system is just wrong. Next time you heat plastic in your presto take some out and see how clear it really is. Or just pour a large bag of baits in clear and put them up to the light and see how it looks not single but the whole bag. Using pourasol will be slight but it is yellower. Any heat adds a tint of yellow to plastic. Another point is the cc plastic was made for heating in the microwave.

[smallmouthaholic]

Frank,

          I have no interest in putting up instructional,lure making videos. and give a free education to those not willing to  spend the time and $ to learn. I have  instructional fishing technique videos on my website.That said,this is one cutthroat business.and it' tough enough to make am honest buck and pay your due taxes only to give the "under the table crowd" a free ride. I give enough free info here on T.U.to help those getting started.I believe I'm well experience having used Lurecraft, Calhouns, Chemionics , Pourasol and MF plastisols to speak authoritively after using these products full time during the past 6 years.

 

          Not wishing to continue this slugfest but this topic was started w/an individual micro-waving plastisol. w/ the plastisol turning yellow. I have state my experience in detail. Those who wish to try may benefit and those who think an unheated injector plus a blending block in conjuction w/ micro waved plastisol(that needs to be cleaned out periodically) is faster are entitled to their opinion.

 

          It's a shame we both live on opposite sides of the U.S. as I'd  be willing to bet a tidy sum I'll outproduce your system w/ a Shooting star System-day in and day out.Remember i started w/ a twin injector,un- heated bleading block and a microwave.That system works for you and I'm happy for you-seriously./ It's just too labor intensive for me.Is the Shooting Star System perfect- NO!!!-but It's the best I've found.

 

           Again,I'm happy when pearl/white belly soft-baits come out that way.I could share  data on various plastics that change color over time-even though non-bleed colors are used but I'll keep that to myself. Those interested can go back and read my posts on this subject thoroughly- the answer is there. One brand holds its clear color better then most and it's not Caney Creek

 

           That said, let's stop throwing barbs @ each other. Have a good weekend

[Slammingjack]

I like this topic so I'll add a little wood on the fire. I made a statement about CCM being good stuff. I also said I don't use it anymore. Now I have the time to explain myself. First I'm a newbie but I'm not a NOOB. If you don't know what a NOOB is ask your kids or grandkids. I just started making baits back this last Feb. So I don't have years under my belt yet. But when I tired CCM is was my #4 plastic I had tried. First tired two from LC saltwater and their 50/50. LC ain't bad stuff, I can see why peeps use it. There was two things I didn't like about it. If you have tried them I bet you can guess what they are. Next was LW/ spite-it. Good price... Moving on. When I did the first three or four pours of CCM. I loved the stuff. Even told the wife I think I found what I was looking for. Less cooking smell then the others. Less smoke as well. I got one gallon of hard and even as it being hard it still had real nice action. Big one, NO BUBBLES. The bait came out dry and that new bait smell was gone in a day or two. So what's to dislike about it? Well, my pours are not very big 1/2 cup or 3/4 cup. I use a microwave that has a turntable and a 30 sec. button as well. Can't control the heat on the 30 sec. at least not on mine, you get high heat only. I had a pour turn yellow on me. Not the first one I ever had, but the first where I hadn't done something wrong. I had always eyeballed my plastic. I wait until the plastic is to the state where it's starting to thin, but still has a little jelly in it. I add flake then mix it up. Run for 30 sec. more and then pour. Worked time after time. Until then. So I tired it again being a lot more careful and it turn yellow again. So I posted on here about what happen. I didn't think I had overheated it. Good old Frank asked what temperature was it at? Told him I didn't know and of course he say Then how did I know I didn't overheat it.   Hmmm good point Frank. so I got me a temperature reader upper thing. And watched it a lot closer. It came down to 15 sec. was good 30 sec. we got yellow. WHY I don't know! I don't make the stuff ,I just use it, but one thing it seemed and I may be all wet, is that CCM seems to get hotter faster then the others. Well, after that it all went down hill The more I used the more stuff started going wrong. Started getting bubbles it, started popping when I cooked it. Turned yellow three more times. Even turned a dark green to a dark greenish with yellow highlights. I blame it on the whole bag in a box thing. Maybe, maybe not. Like I said I didn't make it. I did the box like they said turning it over 3 or 4 times. It was hard to tell if it was mixed good or not. Because it was in a box. Got so I hated that box. If I shook it hard I got bubbles. If I didn't it turned yellow. I would shake it hard and then let it sit for a bit and it worked better. But who wants to set around waiting for a bag of Plastisol to debubble itself.   Not me. So I finished it and won't get more. The good news is after that I ordered a gallon 464 from MF. From first pour to last pour it acted the same. Now that's REAL good stuff. So now I have my first 5 gallons. Being a newbie learning all the things you have to learn to pour good baits is hard (and fun) enough without fighting your Plastisol. If I was a master baiter   ok Bait master I would try CCM again, but I'm a newbie! Just not  a NOOB.  

[swedes67]

I've been hand injecting baits for the past 5 years.  I make baits for some of the local tackle shops.  This is a interesting post so I'll throw in my 2 cents.  I like/use the shooting star system.  Is it perfect? no, but its the best system out there for the money.  On my normal runs I will heat plastisol up to 345 degrees and then add my color and glitter and turn temp down to 320 degrees.  A good ir gun is a very valuable tool to check temps.  Some of the biggest  benefits to the shooting star is that the stirrers continue to run while injecting and no need to clean cold plastic out of injector because the injector stays heated in its block.

[Baitjunkys]

I've been hand injecting baits for the past 5 years.  I make baits for some of the local tackle shops.  This is a interesting post so I'll throw in my 2 cents.  I like/use the shooting star system.  Is it perfect? no, but its the best system out there for the money.  On my normal runs I will heat plastisol up to 345 degrees and then add my color and glitter and turn temp down to 320 degrees.  A good ir gun is a very valuable tool to check temps.  Some of the biggest  benefits to the shooting star is that the stirrers continue to run while injecting and no need to clean cold plastic out of injector because the injector stays heated in its block.

Just for the record, I resolved that problem today, stiring system that will hold the twinjector, Pro-lam. and even singles, while it is running. Im all done here now.

[Frank]

Any-day Smallmouth but I don't want to take your money just the satisfaction of winning. But my way with three gallons of plastic for each color. And then a color change and three more gallons. This is a typical day for me. Equal molds and the same plastic any color including white and I will have more consistent baits than any other hand system out there. I am not afraid of hard work and repetitive duties. This is the reason I help anyone who wants it. I don't think of them as competition or think I am losing business to them. There were plenty of people that did not like me telling so much but my response is if you want to work as hard as me and want to take the time it really takes to make baits then go for it. There is plenty of work to go around but most are not willing to devote the time and effort. I really hate negatives about this business and don't believe them to be all true.

Swedes I don't clean out my injectors either but do have a block to empty. Takes all of three seconds to clean and be ready to use again.

[swedes67]

normally I will run the same color for the day.... then the next day I will cleanout pots, block,etc.  On my first draw I draw a small amount out and clean out the injector block hot.  and then I'm ready to go. If that makes sense. 

[mark poulson]

Everyone who has ever succeeded in anything has had help.

If you say you never had help, you're lying, both to us and yourself.

I am a very good carpenter, and contractor, and almost of what I now know I learned from others.  With their help, I was able to expand my skills to where I could actually innovate, but without the solid base of their knowledge, freely shared, I would have been lost.

And I have taught a lot of others what I know, happily.

A lot of my former employees have gone on to become successful carpenters and contractors in their own right.

Good for them!

I have never worried that I was going to teach someone, only to have them take my job, but I've known and worked with people who thought like that.  They were never as good as they thought they were, and stopped learning because they thought they knew everything.

So I have a moto.  Others have said it differently, like what goes around, comes around, and Karma is a bitch.

I say it like this:

Life is too short to be chickenshit.

[alsworms]

Well said, Mark! 

[Frank]

Well said Mark.

[Zbass]

[Zbass]

I have not posted here in a while and I really don't have anything to add to the original problem of discoloring plastic. It happens with all light colors when you reheat regardless of what heating system you use. Practice and patience will help over time.

 

 

The thing that is aggravating to me is all the BS that is posted in this thread. Has it changed on this site for people to self promote themselves or their products? Is it because that he is an advertiser? Hmm. Interesting. It is happening and not only on this thread but a few others. at least if they are going to do it, at least be honest about it.

For someone to tell somebody that they inspired him to design a stir system is BS. It has been in the works over on his site for over a month and probably been being thought about for a lot longer than that. And then to have this person come back a day later and say that he has the problem solved in an insult. It is an insult to all the people that have spent a lot of time and money to make the products we use better to think that someone that is fairly new to that part of the industry to have the cure all in less than a day. Really? They are not reinventing the wheel, just copying an existing design and modifying it to suit their products. I know this is how advances are made all I am saying is be honest about it.

[mark poulson]

Zbass,

As a hobby pourer, I'm always grateful when someone is willing to share what they know about pouring plastics.

If they have a website and are selling something for pouring, and add that to their posts, I'm okay with it, too.

Since I don't pour baits for anyone but myself and a few friends, I have no problem with what may seem like self-promotion to some.  I just don't see it that way, and, so far, I haven't read anything here on TU that read like "I've just reinvented the wheel".  

If someone here takes an idea and adapts it to their way of making baits, or takes an idea from here and improves on it for themselves, and then posts that info here, I'm just happy they took the time,and were generous enough, to do it.

This site, for me, isn't about bragging.  It's about sharing.

[Baitjunkys]

For the record I have been working on it for a month. I was inspired to do so by Kajan the last go around about having to have a stirer. About a month ago. Im not trying to sell you anything. And your right. It is copied and modified to suit. Just as he did from someone else yrs ago. If you read his post he clearly explains they are sold at bears. Yet I dont see his monthly dollar contribution in the form of a banner up top. I have benefited way less than the cost of that banner. But thats how I contribute to this site.

[smallmouthaholic]

For the record-Bear used to be a sponsor on Tackle unlimited

[smallmouthaholic]

Everyone who has ever succeeded in anything has had help.

If you say you never had help, you're lying, both to us and yourself.

I am a very good carpenter, and contractor, and almost of what I now know I learned from others.  With their help, I was able to expand my skills to where I could actually innovate, but without the solid base of their knowledge, freely shared, I would have been lost.

And I have taught a lot of others what I know, happily.

A lot of my former employees have gone on to become successful carpenters and contractors in their own right.

Good for them!

I have never worried that I was going to teach someone, only to have them take my job, but I've known and worked with people who thought like that.  They were never as good as they thought they were, and stopped learning because they thought they knew everything.

So I have a moto.  Others have said it differently, like what goes around, comes around, and Karma is a bitch.

I say it like this:

Life is too short to be chickenshit.

 

If someone here takes an idea and adapts it to their way of making

baits, or takes an idea from here and improves on it for themselves, and

then posts that info here, I'm just happy they took the time,and were

generous enough, to do it.

This site, for me, isn't about bragging.  It's about sharing.

 

 

 

Being a carpenter /contractor and operating a small lure manufacturing business for profit are  two,completely different business operations with a tremendous difference in time spent for net profit received..I've helped others too when i also had my own contracting business for 26 years.

 

I've sharded plentty of helpful info on TU that will save others time and money-but In your words I'm chickshit-possibly  since I don't post videos and share all information I've learned spending mega $ and years of my time.? My posts are detailed but  it seems you only read & comprehend what you want and then make your berating comments after my post. Seems like a contratradiction to one of your aforementioned statements.

 

The detailed truth from others often w/ ruffle feathers from the IN-Crowd" here on TU. some of you should respect intelligence vs. resenting it.

 

BTW- nice classless word chicken shit which is apparently endorsed by moderators

 

Edited for spelling

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

Edited November 3, 2013 by smallmouthaholic

[mark poulson]

Being a carpenter /contractor and operating a small lure manufacturing business for profit are  two,completely different business operations with a tremendous difference in time spent for net profit received..I've helped others too when i also had my own contracting business for 26 years.

 

I've sharded plentty of helpful info on TU that will save others time and money-but In your words I'm chickshit-possibly  since I don't post videos and share all information I've learned spending mega $ and years of my time.? My posts are detailed but  it seems you only read & comprehend what you want and then make your berating comments after my post. Seems like a contratradiction to one of your aforementioned statements.

 

The detailed truth from others often w/ ruffle feathers from the IN-Crowd" here on TU. some of you should respect intelligence vs. resenting it.

 

BTW- nice classless word chicken shit which is apparently endorsed by moderators

 

Edited for spelling

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

 

I sent you a PM.

[smallmouthaholic]

I sent you a PM.

Mark- I sent you a return PM

[Zbass]

Mark,

I just call them like I see them. Years ago the Ol' boy that, from what I remember, started the gearmotor on the presto pot stirrer was promoting them on here to sell. He was told that he had to be a board sponsor to do that. He became a sponsor and was still told not to promote in the posts. His banner was enough.

Bear basically went the same route. His deal was a little different. He was a sponsor. Someone else would try to post and tell everyone about some of his products and it would start a pissing match. Bear would try to explain things and get shot down saying he was promoting. He got tired of it and said screw it. 

Now we have Baitjunky doing the same thing and it is ok now? I don't understand that. That is for the admin of this site to decide. Not me.

Kajan was not promoting anything IMO. He was just stating that the paddle he makes is the one on the stiur system that Bear sells. There was no "our's or we's" in his post.

If BJ's products are working for people, awesome. Good for them. I am not questioning that at all. There is a ton of stuff out there now that works for some and not for others. It is up to them to decide on what is best for them. For him to share what he knows about pouring, degassing, injecting, that's great. I am just saying being honest about things is a better way to go. It has been proven a few times on here over the years.

[Baitjunkys]

I respect your thoughts as well zbass. Please share with me your thoughts on what I was being dishonest about.

[Zbass]

The way it looks in this post to someone that has no knowledge of the events between you and Kajan a month ago is that on the 31st of October you stated he inspired you to design a stir system. Then on November 1st you stated that you had the problem solved with a stir system that will run while holding your different types of injectors. Just looked like you designed it, made it and tested it in one day. I just know from experience it takes much longer to get a viable product.