Hot Plastic Discoloring ?

[smallmouthaholic]

   I have to ask, why do y'all heat plastic in a microwave before putting it into the presto? (Not Frank, since he has no stir system)

 

I was thinking the exact same thing.If you wanna play,ya gotta pay. The presto pot w/ stirror heats evenly and is controlled unlike the micro wave which over heats the top of the plastisol

[alsworms]

As a hobby pourer, I've used the same quart of heat stabilizer for several years, without really knowing what it is.

Does it affect the softness or strength of the plastisol?

My stabilizer came an amber color, and has darkened a little over the years, but it doesn't seem to darken clear plastic.  Weird.

Sorry if this is a thread hijack, but you guys are the ones who will know the answers.

 

The key to stabilizer is to NOT overuse it.  One ounce per gallon should be more than enough.  The only problem I ever had with it is when using in small portions (for tails and such)..............then it caused a horrible smell in the plastic.  Never noticed any discoloring or hardness/softness problem though. 

 

I always had a gallon or so of plastic set aside with added stabilizer just for those purposes.......constant reheating for tails, heavily salted baits, etc. 

[mark poulson]

The key to stabilizer is to NOT overuse it.  One ounce per gallon should be more than enough.  The only problem I ever had with it is when using in small portions (for tails and such)..............then it caused a horrible smell in the plastic.  Never noticed any discoloring or hardness/softness problem though. 

 

I always had a gallon or so of plastic set aside with added stabilizer just for those purposes.......constant reheating for tails, heavily salted baits, etc. 

 

Thanks.  I can see I've been using too much.

[Baitjunkys]

I was thinking the exact same thing.If you wanna play,ya gotta pay. The presto pot w/ stirror heats evenly and is controlled unlike the micro wave which over heats the top of the plastisol

pure bs right there. Plenty of people know hot to use a micro.

[smallmouthaholic]

pure bs right there. Plenty of people know hot to use a micro.

 

Gee wiz there baitjunkys-you're certainly entitled to your opinion. BTW- let me know when you invent a stirror for micro waving plastic so the plastisol is heated evenly while inside the microwave.

That stated, I use a micro for small batches of colored plastisol for small orders but light pearl/white colors change rapidly under repeated heatings.Light colors will even change if overheated in a Presto Pot for long periods. I wonder how many folks use a micro wave inside an exhaust booth so their lungs don't get coated w/slimy plastisol fumes when the micro wave door is openedand closed numerous times  during their sophisticated heating system to counter-act color changes.

[ReflexionSwimbaits]

Lots of good advice by people smarter and more experienced than I... but I will add a couple things. First - it has already been said but it bears repeating - if you're using the micro then heat up the exact amount of light or pearl color plastic that you will need for your molds. We triple pour a lot and I use 3 Presto pots with stirring systems most of the time when doing a big production run.

 

However - for the small order or the custom order, we use the microwave and pyrex cups. I have found that I can mix and heat enough of the back color (usually a darker color so there is a little more flexibility) to do 3-4 runs (each run is 6 molds). This is true for most of our patterns with dark backs - Tate's sunfish, deep shad, baby bass, tequila sunrise, smoke, etc. I keep them on a flat griddle in warmer cups made from aluminum foil - simply wrap several sheets of foil around the pyrex cup and secure it with a few wraps of duck tape. I even made a fancy little lid... When I bring the darker color of the plastic up to temp, it goes in the foil warmer with the lid and sits on the griddle. This keeps it in suspension - I turn the griddle up to 300 and I can grab the back color 10 minutes later, pop it in for 30 seconds and its at 340-350 and ready to pour. I pour hot hot hot and that system works well. 

 

I do the same with the vein, but I use the smaller cups to mix and hold that. You have to be careful with the lighter colors. Its a matter of experience and feel. I know when the trout pink and the deep shad yellow will go bad and I usually get 2 runs out of a cup before the material starts to over cook and fade. Just heat up another small cup of plastisol after those 2 runs with the vein color and I'm back in business. 

 

The belly color is the last thing I heat. I CLOSELY monitor it coming from the micro to avoid overheating and bubbles. I like to already have my other two colors in their warmers on the heat so I know they're suspended until I need them. This allows me to focus entirely on making sure I accurately heat the sensitive belly colors right the first time. I bring them up to 330 or so, add pearl, coloring and flakes or whatever is called for then heat another 15 seconds, stir and repeat until I'm in that very thin "perfect" area. As I said I run hot so my temps are a little higher than the injection guys. 

 

With 6 molds, I usually heat up just under 4 ounces of plastic for the belly. Once the pour is done, I set the cup aside to cool and save the leftover plastic to use the next time I mix up that belly color. That way I'm always using my 2nd generation stuff and never heating the same amount of plastic more than twice.

 

Hope this all makes sense! A little different from your original application but hopefully practical. Bottom line - lighter colors (especially with pearl powders) are a major PITA.  

[DaveMc1]

I was thinking the exact same thing.If you wanna play,ya gotta pay. The presto pot w/ stirror heats evenly and is controlled unlike the micro wave which over heats the top of the plastisol

 

Thats funny LOL, if you want something that heats evenly and is truly controlled, spend the money on a pot that was designed to heat and hold hot plastic instead of using a cheap pot made for cooking your dinner. 

[Kajan]

Thats funny LOL, if you want something that heats evenly and is truly controlled, spend the money on a pot that was designed to heat and hold hot plastic instead of using a cheap pot made for cooking your dinner. 

   Dave, I think your out of touch a tee' bit der'. I have been using presto pots and stir systems for a while now, and they do heat evenly, only problems I ever had with plastic is if I get a bad batch of plastic. Not sure what your experiences are with the presto pots, but I can tell you mine work great.

    I was just asking a question to find out why some find it necessary to warm plastic before putting in a presto pot, I am assuming with a stir system with paddles.

[Baitjunkys]

Thats funny LOL, if you want something that heats evenly and is truly controlled, spend the money on a pot that was designed to heat and hold hot plastic instead of using a cheap pot made for cooking your dinner. 

Exactly. 

[Painter1]

Thats funny LOL, if you want something that heats evenly and is truly controlled, spend the money on a pot that was designed to heat and hold hot plastic instead of using a cheap pot made for cooking your dinner. 

Would that be a Rite-Hete brand pot?   Thick walled, with heating elements on sides, bottom and spout?  Or did you have something else in mind? 

[Painter1]

if you want something that heats evenly and is truly controlled, spend the money on a pot that was designed to heat and hold hot plastic instead of using a cheap pot made for cooking your dinner. 

 

Exactly. 

H'mmm, thought I saw a video with you using those dinner pots.  Please share if you know of a better pot system.

[Painter1]

Painter1 the way I do it is in 32oz batches(4cups). Turn on the presto pot and let it come up to temp without anything in it. This keeps it from going full blast when you add plastic and turn it on. I heat the 4 cups for 7.5 minutes (this is for reference only all microwaves are different) bring it out and stir then pour it in the heated presto. Then repeat, I mix three of those and start shooting. Two will do. This give it time to settle on a temperature. I don't have a mixing system but that's just me. I don't plan on leaving it there long enough to make a difference. But all of the plastic I have tried have yellowed a bit some more than others. If you want a real clean looking white you could add a drop of blue or black just to clean it up a bit. If you put it next to something that is truely white you can see the color but your eye really can't. Just be real carefull and use as much as you can as fast as you can. On the reheat I get it close to melted but a bit lumpy and add it back to the pot. In time you will get it down to a sequence that works for you. One last point when I say my plastic yellows I mean it has a tint of yellow. It does not get worse unless I overheat it. Frank

Thank you, Frank.  That is very useful information and I really appreciate your constructive and helpful post. 

[DaveMc1]

Would that be a Rite-Hete brand pot?   Thick walled, with heating elements on sides, bottom and spout?  Or did you have something else in mind? 

 

Rite-Hete would be one of them yes. there are a few out there. Don't get me wrong, a presto pot has it's place as an inexpensive pot that can get the job done, but it is by far not the best thing out there. 

[Frank]

   I have to ask, why do y'all heat plastic in a microwave before putting it into the presto? (Not Frank, since he has no stir system)

Hey I don't want to be left out. I do it that way because it is faster. In 25 minutes I can have 1.5 gallons of plastic ready to shoot. And when it gets low I can put another half gallon in the microwave while i shoot baits. A presto can't even come close to those times. I do run two microwaves that cook pretty even. I do use prestos and they work good but I am not saying they are great. I am a lot happier with there performance since the heated injector stand came out because it added heat to one wall of the presto and also seems to keep a more constintant temp. But I have been sniffing to many fumes from my microwave.

[Baitjunkys]

H'mmm, thought I saw a video with you using those dinner pots.  Please share if you know of a better pot system.

I do use them. But I dont preach that the only way you can do it is to have a stirring system. And I certainly dont preach the pots. They work that is it.

[smallmouthaholic]

I do use them. But I dont preach that the only way you can do it is to have a stirring system. And I certainly dont preach the pots. They work that is it.

No one is preaching the pots- merely stating what works best for me based upon 6 years of full -time plastics manufacturing. I guess i should keep this priviledged,detailed info(post 14) to myself in the future. i don't sugar coat my posts,just state the data I've learned through time and money spent.

[Kajan]

   OK Frank, I understand your reasons.

 

     And as far as a stir system with pots, I will bet money that people who use stir systems will burn and scorch very little plastic and bou'cou' lower % than anyone who just uses a pot.  I have heard people even tell people they don't need a stir system, which is true, but sure gona cost people some money with all their burnt plastic their gona waste.

[Baitjunkys]

Kajan. You have inspired me to start building stirring systems. Thank you.

[Painter1]

I really am not trying to be a pain but must admit to being frustrated.  At least Two (2) contributors have written of "better pots" and Rite Hete being one of them.  Well then what are the other options? 

 

There are guys like Frank, laying it all out there and sharing.  Please speak plainly if you know of something better.  

 

BTW, not very happy with my Rite Hete pot.     

[Baitjunkys]

There are several manufacturers of plastic melting pots. What arent you happy with on the Rite Hete? You may not have the right rite pot for the job. They make several.

[Frank]

I still want back in. I know there is two presto pot available for this task but I have six that have never burned plastic and I have left them on 400 till I got the heated injector holder now I have to turn then down to 350 and get a working temp of 320ish. So how are people burning plastic? Is there a magic pot that creates so much heat it will burn plastic? Maybe thats why I don't see a need for a stirring system. It seems to me it might give you a false sense of security. And maybe some people know how I do it and it may be a repeat but someone new might just read this thread for the first time and it just might help. Building a set of pots may be the answer but who is going to pay 600 or more for one set?

[DAWG1419]

I agree with Frank. I have a presto and never burnt any plastic. All I stir with is wooden paint sticks. Yall must be doing something wrong if you burn your plastic. I know I have run about 40 gallons of plastisol thru my presto and havent had a problem yet.

[Kajan]

   Not sure where you live Frank, but here, In South La. if you use Saltwater or saltwater/med mix, and don't stir your plastic, it will scorch in no time. Might be because of the density of the plastic is higher, but it is a fact. I am just tryin to save people from having trouble. I started making my own plastics in 1987. I had no stir system, was the old methods, was a pain in the butt trying to keep your plastic moving in a pan using a hot plate. When here on TU I saw someone had made a Motorized stir system, I could not believe I hadn't thought about doing that, but at that time I had stopped makin lures. But after seeing that, thats when I made my own system, improved on the design and came up with a paddle that works great. Just because some one might of tried a stir system and didn't have good luck with it, it goes back to the paddles, not all paddles work the same, I built and tested many types until I came up with current design I have now, which is also what Bear sells. I never push anyone to buy a stir system, but I sure hope they try and make their own if nothin else, and I have helped many people to do that.

      But for someone to come out and tell anyone who pours enough lures that they want to use more than a microwave and tell them they absoloutly don't need a stir system, well, I think they are agenda driven and I will stop at that, since it is foolish to argue with a fool.

     So, reason I posted on th is thread was because someone was having trouble with yellowing plastic. If it is using a pot with a stir system with correctly made paddle, I assure you it is not gona yellow unless he got a batch of bad plastic.

[smallmouthaholic]

I believe we're talking about  negative color changes (turning amber and/or yellow)w/ whites/ pearls- not burning. Put something  like soup on your stove and turn the heat up to 400 w/out stirring. for 5 -10 minutes. Stirring the pot keeps the plastisol /soup cooler.White,pearle,junebug,blue and light smoke w/ purple and black flake do not tolerate 340 degrees  for long periods of time(15+minutes)- even w/ a stirror

Edited November 1, 2013 by smallmouthaholic

[Frank]

Kajan, agenda? I don't sell or make parts for a plastic pot or a stirring system. Can you say that? I make no money if some one buys any products I promote. But if you use only harder plastic then you may well need a stirring system. I don't use anything harder than say med hard from Spikeit and I don't need a stirring system with that either. If you are using a plastic that is that sensitive to heat then you have a need for the parts you make. I don't and have shown the way I do it on many videos to help people start this hobby and visually see how I do it. Have you ever done that? I am guessing not as you don't really inject baits. Open pour molds are more of what you do am I wrong? I can use plastic so fast it does not make a difference if a stirring system is used or not. You also say you turn yours on and off when needed, with me I just stir when I need is that not the same thing? His paddles are yours. So lets get back to bashing plastic manufacturers?

New people reading this post can get started pour without having a bunch of specialized equipment that some say they need. Buy a microwave,Pyrex cups,Twinjector,plastic, molds and colorant and glitter and you can make two colored baits just like the ones you buy at the baits store. When you decide you want more draw your own conclusion on what will make it better for you.

As for the original post he has a stirring system and it still yellowed. He has great detail on what he is doing.

I was telling how I do it and admitting it still yellows a bit. Some plastics more some less. But all of them stay at a state of yellow till they are left on to long or overheated.