dpalinsk Posted October 28, 2013 Report Share Posted October 28, 2013 I've been a lurker on this site for about 9 months now and have learned quite a bit about lure making and numberous methods and ideas that have really helped me out with painting plastic lipless crankbaits. As many others have said, one of the best fishing related site on the Internet. I'm getting better and have come up with a couple that may be worthy of posting on this site. Oh, and I make use my lures for catching Stripers in the California Aqueduct and local lakes. I'm wanting to venture into making wood lures and I've been digging through this site trying to figure it out so that I don't waste too much time (and money) and it's sort of one of those things that the more I read, the less confidence I have. In particular, I don't know what to use to seal the lure before painting. So I thought if I could frame a question properly, I could get some guidance for getting started from the best lure makers I know of. So I plan on buying some kits from Salty's, starting with the 1.25oz topwater glide kit. I think it's cool that there's a company that sells these kits for a beginner like me and provides, hopefully, a lure that works well that I can paint, assemble and catch fish on. Unfortunately, I'm not sure what type of wood they are made from. I really like the Wicked airbrush paints and will be using those to paint the lures. Finally, I don't have a lure turner and have been pretty satisfied using D2T so I will be using that for the topcoat. What I have not been able to figure out yet, is what I should use to seal the lure with before painting. From what I've been able to gather from this site, what one uses for paint and the topcoat may dictate or limit sealers that can be used. Hopefully, with the info I have provided, someone can help me identify the type of sealer that would best for this application. I do appreciate the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 One of the best sealers I know is D2T. You're gonna use it for topcoating, no reason not to use it for undercoating too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 One of the best sealers I know is D2T. You're gonna use it for topcoating, no reason not to use it for undercoating too. X2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedyarb Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 Quickest sealer I've seen is thin super glue! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleriver Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 I am super glue sealer as well. I think both options have advantages and the best way to figure out which one is best for your needs is to try them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 (edited) I use both super glue and epoxy on my baits. I like the way super glue makes the surface of the wood harder, but worry about how deep it actually penetrates the wood as well as how much is sanded away when smoothing the lure after applying the super glue. For this reason I then give the bait a coat of epoxy. Is this killing the same mule twice? Could very well be, but I like to build as bulletproof of a bait as I know how and this process just gives me a little extra security. Since your already using epoxy as a top coat it makes a perfectly good wood sealer all on it's own. Lot's of people have been building baits like that for a long time so it's a proven method. Ben Edited October 30, 2013 by RayburnGuy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleriver Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 @Ben I like the idea of devcon as a sealer but can't get past the process. I have a couple of BobP baits and know the "Ping" feeling your baits get once they are sealed with devcon. Really solid bait that will transmit every knock on the bottom or an object. I do know of another process that makes such a bait. Another great thing about devcon is once you seal with it your not only getting waterproofing but a smooth surface to paint as well. With super glue one will have to paint and sand several layers of base coat to get to a smooth bait. I guess I worry about the devcon getting into places i don't want and the cost of devcon are factors keeping me away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 I seal balsa baits only with super glue, because I don't want to add any more weight than absolutely necessary. I coat the bait twice, and then sand. The first coat does soak in, and the second coat semi-smooths, ready for a 400 grit sanding and priming. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IdiotCrow Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 Quickest sealer I've seen is thin super glue! How do you apply the super glue as a topcoat? What super glue do you use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 I have never used super glue as a top coat, only as a sealer. But I do use it for quick, on-the-water touchups to repair "professional rock testing" damage. I'm just careful to let the lure dry out first, or the water will make the super glue brush hard as a rock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleriver Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 (edited) Super glue is super easy to apply, First of all, you want good ventilation. I like to have a fan going to provide a crosswind. Next you need thin super glue. Not the jello stuff. Zap makes a good product that I use. http://www.supergluecorp.com/zap/zap-ca I use the super thin wicking formula in the biggest bottle they make. The cheap dollar tree stuff will work but you'll be making lots of trips. Now you got your glue and a fan blowing, finally I like to have a paper towel handy. Ohh, almost forgot you need a work space where you don't mind a drip or two falling on the floor or your workspace. A drip pan is needed if your woking in a nicer space. Now to apply, I have tried a few but the one Iike the most is really simple. Take the bait and hold one end in your hand and let the other end point towards the floor. Take the glue and using the the tip of the bottle apply the glue to the bait starting about halfway up or a little more. Once you have the completely covered, take the paper towel quickly wipe off the excess glue. After the glued end of the bait has been wiped down with the towel, your ready to hold the end of the bait you just glued in your hand and finish gluing the unglued side. Believe it or not, even though the glue has not completely dried yet, because you wiped off the excess, the glued end may now be handled without glueing yourself to the bait. Super glue waterproofing takes less than a minute but I would wait at least 30 minutes before wetting the bait. The wicked glue takes a bit to completely dry. One way to know is by smelling the bait. Not recommended, but once the smell is gone I have found the bait to be completely dry. If you wet a bait before the glue has dried, the bait in part or all will turn white. When dry this does not happen when placed in water. Edited October 31, 2013 by littleriver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedyarb Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 I don't use the super glue as a topcoat, I use it as a sealer. I like to stick a bras nail into the rear hook hanger and apply using the tip of the bottle and cover lure past the belly hanger, then stick nail into the belly hanger and finish the lure. I use extreme power thin glue from hobby lobby. It's 4.99 and I can seal approximately 100 lures with it! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpalinsk Posted October 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 First, thanks for the recommendations. I don't recall reading anything about using super glue to seal a wood lure so I learned something new! I'm gonna start with D2T since I have it and have experience using it. I'll have to get me some inexpensive lures to practice on before risking a kit. How long do you recommend letting the D2T cure before sanding? Does thinning with a small amount denatured alcohol help achieve a smoother finish? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 I'm guessing your talking about scuffing the lure before painting it. There are several variables to the amount of time it takes before epoxy can be sanded. I know this probably isn't what you want to hear, but it's just the nature of the beast. Temperature and climate, as well as how much denatured alcohol you use, can all vary the time it takes to cure. I don't rely on a given time before sanding. If it feels hard I will give it a light scuffing. If the sandpaper wants to drag, or it feels like your sanding something gummy, then it's not cured enough to sand. Where I live a lure coated with epoxy can be removed from the wheel in about 45 minutes. That's if the temp in the house is 70 or above. This doesn't mean you can start sanding yet. After removing them from the wheel I let them hang for at least a 1 to 3 hours before touching them. (I handle the baits with forceps clamped to the hook hangers) I then try what I described above. I don't know that using denatured alcohol will give you a smoother finish, but it will add a small amount of working time as well as making it easier to brush on. It also allows the bubbles to dissipate easier as your thinning the mix a little bit with the addition of the alcohol. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonoman Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 why not just dip the wood lure in a water based sanding sealer?, say 2-4 times depending on how smooth you want it...scuff it with a scotch brite pad, prime it with whatever base coat you want then proceed to finish coats...top coat with whatever clear you prefer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpalinsk Posted October 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 I'm guessing your talking about scuffing the lure before painting it. There are several variables to the amount of time it takes before epoxy can be sanded. I know this probably isn't what you want to hear, but it's just the nature of the beast. Temperature and climate, as well as how much denatured alcohol you use, can all vary the time it takes to cure. I don't rely on a given time before sanding. If it feels hard I will give it a light scuffing. If the sandpaper wants to drag, or it feels like your sanding something gummy, then it's not cured enough to sand. Where I live a lure coated with epoxy can be removed from the wheel in about 45 minutes. That's if the temp in the house is 70 or above. This doesn't mean you can start sanding yet. After removing them from the wheel I let them hang for at least a 1 to 3 hours before touching them. (I handle the baits with forceps clamped to the hook hangers) I then try what I described above. I don't know that using denatured alcohol will give you a smoother finish, but it will add a small amount of working time as well as making it easier to brush on. It also allows the bubbles to dissipate easier as your thinning the mix a little bit with the addition of the alcohol. Ben Thanks Ben. I've had some issues with getting a completely smooth surface with D2T when top coating my lures, Seemed to be getting worse lately, but I'm thinking that maybe the DEVCON I was using was getting old and probably sitting in my garage through the hottest part of Summer didn't help either. Coated a lure last night with brand new DEVCON and it came out much better than the last 3 or 4. So I was thinking that I would be sanding down the DEVCON to get a completely smooth surface and not just scuffing it prior to painting. I'm just gonna have to order up some lures, get started and learn from my mistakes. I'm sure I'll get it dialed in after 3 or 4 attempts, at least I hope so! Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 One thing that can keep you from getting a smooth surface with epoxy is that it's starting to set up before you get it applied. It may not seem like it's setting up as it starts out slowly and you may not notice it. When your brushing it on and the brushing action is causing more bubbles than it's removing this could be the cause. Or if your brush seems like it starts to drag a little then this is a sure sign of the epoxy setting up. Some people worry too much about trying to mix the epoxy really slowly so as not to get any bubbles in the mix. This can cut into the "working time" drastically. I've learned to add just enough denatured alcohol that it thins the mix enough that it makes it easier for the bubbles to dissipate. I can't give you an exact number of drops as I do it by eye. The alcohol will also increase the working time by a small amount. When I mix epoxy I don't worry about any bubbles forming and I mix the crap out of it. I want to get it thoroughly mixed as quick as I can and then add the alcohol which is then mixed in with the epoxy. Again stirring the crap out of it. When the alcohol is incorporated into the mix I hold my mixing cup close to my mouth and exhale onto it. (exhale...not blow) The combination of the warm breath and the exhaled carbon dioxide will pop all but the smallest of the bubbles. Now is when a good quality artists brush with fine bristles comes into play. The soft, fine bristles will pop any tiny remaining bubbles while the epoxy is being applied. I also got away from using D2T and started using Bob Smith 30 minute slow cure epoxy. It may be all in my head, but the Bob Smith seems to have a little longer working time and the bubbles seem to dissipate better. Last, but certainly not least, is there is no replacement for experience and this is as true with epoxy top coats as it is anything else. The more you use something, and learn to deal with any problems, the better you will become at using it. So hang in there. It will come to you. Ben 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracy G Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 why not just dip the wood lure in a water based sanding sealer?, say 2-4 times depending on how smooth you want it...scuff it with a scotch brite pad, prime it with whatever base coat you want then proceed to finish coats...top coat with whatever clear you prefer. This will work as well. I use Deft sanding sealer on some of my harder woods (cedar, pine, and basswood). I would work on balsa also but I just like the epoxy for softer woods to add strength. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleriver Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 (edited) why not just dip the wood lure in a water based sanding sealer?, say 2-4 times depending on how smooth you want it...scuff it with a scotch brite pad, prime it with whatever base coat you want then proceed to finish coats...top coat with whatever clear you prefer. For myself it is the time, smell of the product, and more time . I started out using sanding sealer as it was recommended to me by local balsa crank builders. One thing about it, if your dipping it it must be completely dry before apply a second coat . If not, moisture will be trapped and the bait will bubble later in the heat. Sealer skims over quickly and traps moisture. It takes longer than one might think before it is completely dry. 2 -4 times could take 2-4 days and it still really is not water proof. It is a water based product. It makes a really smooth surface for painting but not a waterproof one. Superglue takes literally 30 minutes and i am test swimming my new bait . Nothing worse than finishing a new bait only to find out it won't swim the way you intended. Time is my most valued resource. We each only have so much and using superglue to waterseal baits is a real time saver. Edited November 1, 2013 by littleriver 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonoman Posted November 4, 2013 Report Share Posted November 4, 2013 I use cedar mainly and the product i use is a water base minwax sanding sealer, drys in an hour, and after 4 dips its real smooth , scuff and paint...I have made several of the balsa baits and wasn't as happy with the sanding sealer so i went to the plastic cups dissolved in thinner , that worked fairly well, I may have to give the superglue thing a shot and see , Thanks. Bryan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenlures Posted November 4, 2013 Report Share Posted November 4, 2013 I use cedar and like Sonoman I dip my lures in the same sanding sealer 3 times, #1 its cheaper than any epoxy out there. #2 leaves a nice smooth finish ready for a light scuff and prime. Dipped all in one day dries over night and ready to go. Gallon for 37 bucks at menards. Wayne 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted November 4, 2013 Report Share Posted November 4, 2013 Man, I had forgotten how complicated sealing and waterproofing wooden baits can be! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kdog Posted November 4, 2013 Report Share Posted November 4, 2013 Years ago my father and I made a lot of balsa wood plugs. This was really old school but we whittled then from blanks, rasped and sanded to shape all by hand, Made our lips from aluminum plate and attached to bodies with screws. Once we had the blank where we wanted it, we would dip it in shellac 2 - 3 with a light sanding between coats. We finished them with foil (elmers glue and aluminum foil and occasionally gold leaf) and various paints all applied with a brush. Lures were not exceptional but very functional. Our final finishing stage was to dip coat in spar varnish 4 - 5 coats if memory serves me correctly. I still have 2 of these lures buried in tackle box somewhere. They were durable and usually lasted until they got snagged or broken off. Old mono (1960's) was not always reliable and the drags on the mitchell 300's and 308's left a bit to be desired. With all the modern finishes, I still go back to shellac when finishing soft woods. It does a great job of sealing and surface hardening the wood and for me brings back many fond memories. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted November 5, 2013 Report Share Posted November 5, 2013 When I used to use oil-based rattle can paints on my one piece douglas fir Punker-style baits, they were bullet proof, too. But I've gotten spoiled with PVC. No sealing, no priming, no water intrusion, no worries about top coat failure, all of the things that brought me an extra level of grief. Now I just concentrate on making a lure that actually catches fish! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxicbaits Posted November 6, 2013 Report Share Posted November 6, 2013 Choosing a top quality wood will also help with water intrusion/sealing issues. Thin CA Glue with a thin coat of Devcon 2Ton over the top of it works out to be a great combo for sealing a wooden bait. I would try to stay away from worrying about cost too much, a few dollars here or there will go a long way down the road. also Epoxy in all your screw eyes to help stop water intrusion. I have used Minwax Wood hardner as a sealer before (got the idea from this site actually) and it worked well, wasnt sure about soak times and how long to let dry tho. Super glue (ca) has worked better for me since I can seal and test the swim in minutes not days. Good Luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
