Crankbait With Blades

[djhaddix]

Hey gang.  Been a while since I have posted, been dealing with some personal health issues, namely something called Sudden Sensorineural Hearing Loss.  Basically, I went to bed one night and everything was great, and woke up the next morning deaf in one ear, which is apparently irreversible.  Such is life I guess, I am thankful that it wasn't something worse (i.e. - waking up blind or paralyzed or something like that).

 

Be that as it may, I have had some time to do some thinking, and have an idea.  I have used the search function and have not found anything that addresses this particular idea, but I have the belief that if I have conjured up this idea, surely someone else has before.

 

I was wondering if any of you think it's plausible to craft a crankbait that includes wire arms protruding from the sides, with small spinnerbait blades attached.  I was thinking of the sound signature this bait may produce, which should be like nothing else that we throw as fishermen; however, due to my limited understanding of fluid mechanics, I am not sure if the idea would even work.

 

I have included a sketch of my idea for this lure...please pardon the crudeness of it, I just sat down and sketched it out to get the idea out of my brain and on paper.  Any and all feedback is appreciated.  Hopefully my mind is working right!

 

[Nathan]

It can be done...I made a bait like that several years ago...I made a few and never went any further with them.When your block is still square choose the spot you want the blades to be located and drill a 1/16 hole through the block.Now shape and finish your bait as usual.I used small eye screws to mount a small swivel and a # 1 willow blade too( blade size will be determined by the bait size) the eye screws on each side of the bait.I tried other methods for mounting the blades but this was the easiest and worked best for me...Nathan

[benton B]

At first look, I would say the blades will kill the action of the crank.   On a second look it might be worth a try on a wake bait.   I use a prop on the tail of my wake baits and it works very well.   You could use 7 strand coated leader wire and epoxy that in a hole thru the bait to cut down on added weight.   I would also use small willow blades to cut down on drag.  

[djhaddix]

Thanks for the replies gentlemen.  Nathan, I am assuming that since you only made a few of these types of lures you weren't able to get the action out of them, or at least didn't wind up catching fish on them like you had hoped?

 

Benton, I am curious as to why it would appear that this could work on a wake bait and not a crank?  Not challenging you by any means, I am the pupil here so just trying to learn, and hopefully teach myself to think outside of the box a little bit more.  I agree on the willow blades, and honestly that was my initial thought, but in the drawing I felt like it would be easier for folks to see the spinner bait blades as a colorodo style.  I was honestly just thinking of using my standard wire that I use for thru-wire construction for the arms.

 

I guess I was just thinking a lot about something I had heard Rick Clunn talk about quite a bit, and I belived he referred to it as a hydrodynamic signature (although that could be totally off base).  Basically, just the way that bass receive "sound" through their lateral lines.  Obviously these cranks wouldn't be ideal for fishing grass or anything, but may find some use in more open-water situations (i.e. - cranking the face of a grass mat). 

 

My initial thoughts were that the vortices introduced by the front portion of the crankbait would interfere with the water flowing over the blades, but I guess I will just have to use some trial and error to see how long the blade arms need to be to see if I can work this out.  I am in the process of moving to a new house (with a small workshop this time, yay!) so hopefully I can begin prototyping soon.

 

Thanks again for the replies, and to all of you who have taken the time to read this thread.

[Nathan]

Actually ,

They ran pretty good and I did catch a few fish on them..I just enjoy designing baits and moved on...What ever you choose to mount your blades on make sure it isn't too wide or too stiff.If it is it will cut down on your hooking percentage . Think the bass think it 's a small school of fish...Nate

[benton B]

My reason for thinking the blades might kill the action, because the blades might balance the bait so it would not wobble.   Just a thought off the top of my head.   The reason I would use leader wire is because it's flexible and will give when a fish eats the bait.   The wake bait idea was because I tried a prop on a square bill and it killed the action of that bait but my wake baits are not affected.   I have no idea why the wake bait likes the prop but the other crank did not.    I like your idea and plan to try it on a wake bait.  

[Don-Art]

My first thought is that they might act like outriggers on a canoe.By not extending too far out from the body it may work fine,also I agree that smaller blades should not hinder the action as much.It can't hurt to give it a try.

Don

[A-Mac]

I think it would be best to build the bait first and locate the pivot point in the lure's wobble.  This is where I would first try putting blades like you mentioned and modify from there.

[djhaddix]

Wow, great stuff guys.  Thanks for all of the input, I am filing all the information away mentally so that I have some things to consider when I actually get to start the build.  The gears are turning now quite a bit (at least as much as mine can, anyway). 

 

I have recently began thinking that there may be a way to extend a wire arm and blad from under the base of the diving bill of the lure that runs vertically, in front of the front treble hook, which may act as a bit of a guard for that front treble.  Hopefully my description makes sense.  In my mind, at least, this could prove beneficial in a number of ways, and as it would hopefully  be centered vertically on the lure, may not impede the side to side action of the lure as much as the horizontally aligned arms with blades.  Although, however, I can see where the drag created by the blade could introduce some disturbance given the displacement from the CoG and/or pivot point mentioned above.

 

Thanks again to all who have viewed this topic and taken the time to respond.  I look forward to any future discussions we may have regarding this.  I guess the whole "bait ball" type theory is in full swing!

[A-Mac]

Please post a video with your accomplishments!  This is a neat concept. 

[diemai]

As spinnerblades do provide some kinda drag to a wobbling lure , they definately slow down the wiggle .

 

Cast a Colorado blade inline spinner and a willowleaf bladed spinner , and you will find , that the Colorado makes you feel a lot more resistance and throb in the rodtip than the willowleaf does .

 

Same thing is , if you'd attach such blades to a diving wobbler , Colorados would tend to slow down the wobble more than Willowleaf blades would .

 

Also all spinnerblades do have the tendency to rise to the surface , when spinning ,  .....again Colorados much more than Willowleaf blades , ...this is why the latter are used for spinners supposed to be cast into current river waters , ...in conjunction with a sufficiently heavy body they'd simply swim deeper , .....whereas Colorado blades can be used for spinners , that are intended to run very shallow or even just below the surface , ........best example are the even double-bladed so-called "Bulger Spinners" , that cause a wake on the surface .

 

All other spinnerblade types are somewhere inbetween the two mentioned types with their features .

 

One more property of spinning blades is a certain grade of a centrifugal force , that might also take a wobbling lure out of it's balance , should be taken into consideration , when rigging two blades aside of the lurebody as sketched above , .....here the centrifugal force would double .

 

 

Well , .....so many negative things sounding like spinnerblades an diving wobblers won't go together , ......but don't worry , it is possible .

 

If you want to design a crankbait with spinnerblades attached to it , you will have to take into consideration , that the blade definately slows down the wiggle , no matter what location on the lure it is placed .

 

To encounter this problem , you need a lure , that comes up with a very strong and pronounced wobble right from the start , nevertheless the spinning blade would slow the wobble down , .....but as the wobble has been so strong before , enough wiggling action will be left with bade(s) attched !

 

So , in a nutshell , ...lures sporting just a subtle wiggle are not suitable to attach blades to it , they'd just come in like a dead stick after the modification .

 

If rigging two blades on either side or fore and aft of a crankbait , you might want to have these blades counter rotating , as this way any centrifugal forces possibly spoiling the balance are eliminated .

 

And , ......the smaller the blades , the lest drag , lift and centrifugal force they generate , ...so if you're not happy with your lure action in the end , always try to switch to a smaller blade size first , this might do the trick .

 

I had already made lure prototypes with spinnerblades attached , just out of curiosity , .......you may see them on video :

 

Check at 0:30 , 2:04 and 18:18

 

 

Check at 1:07 and 9:36 .

 

 

 

 

In the third video as from 6:50 on I'm talking about a blade fixed at the tip of the diving lip won't spin but only flutter(please check next post of mine , did not link in this one anymore) .

 

Hope that my remarks may help a bit regarding the execution of your projects , ...good luck with it , diemai

Edited November 14, 2013 by diemai

[diemai]

Sorry , third video did not link in previous post , .....here ist is :

 

 

Good luck , diemai

Edited November 14, 2013 by diemai

[djhaddix]

Diemai,

 

Thanks so much for your insightful contributions to the thread.  You have been an inspiration for me for quite some time now, and I appreciate your thoughtfulness in helping me.  I must admit, however, that I am unfamiliar with counter-rotating blades.  Obviously I understand the concept and the meaning of the term, but I am not familiar with whether this requires two completely different blades (i.e. - one clockwise, one counter-clockwise) or simply the same two blades oriented oppositely of each other?  In my mind I had already addressed this issue, but didn't really know how to articulate what was in my mind.  You have cleared it up perfectly.

 

You mentioned in your video how the lower pressure underneath of the diving lip made your blade flutter and not rotate, which was something that I hadn't thought of.  It would be particularly pertinent if I were to design the lure with the blade arm coming out of the body vertically under the diving lip but in front of the treble hook.  And of course, there is always the issue of making sure the blade would not foul up with the treble, which is yet another thing to think about.

 

I can't stress enough how much all of you have helped me in my luremaking journey, and sole credit to the members of this site should be given for allowing me to understand things enough to start thinking outside of the box, so to speak.  Once I get moved in I am going to start fabricating these lures, and although I don't have any video capability other than my iPhone, I will post back with progress, but bear with me, it may take a while.

[Don-Art]

Just a thought. But you could probably find a lure in your tackle box and add your spinner Assembly's to it and test out some of the ideas. This might not have as much of the fun factor in it. But it could lead to a faster path to a working design.

Don

[diemai]

@ djhaddix

 

Very glad , if I was able to provide some help , ......forgot to explain about the counterrotating blades , sorry .

 

I was refering to a pair of spinnerblades of same size , but spinning in different directions , clockwise and counterclockwise .

 

Came accross such blades years ago in a US tackle catalog , even ordered for some back then :

 

http://lurepartsonline.com/Shop-By-Category/Doc-Shelton-Blades/Premium-Finish-Doc-Shelton-Blades.html

 

If you read the describtion above , you will find , that odd numbered blades point right and even blades point left , which means , that both blade shapes would turn into different directions .

 

Problem is , that a set of counterrotating  blades always consists of two different sizes , ....won't matter that much , when assembling your blades fore and aft of your crankbait , but won't work mounting them on either side of your lure .

 

To overcome this problem , you can either make your blades at home or take a pair of ordinary Indiana blades of same size and grind away material on opposing sides to achieve the same shape and thus the same counterrotating effect like on those original Doc Shelton blades .

 

BTW , ...these sets of DS blades can be used on spinnerbaits , but I've also made a few double-bladed weight forward spinners with them , the opposite turning directions elimate line twist quite a bit ,..... if not completely , as the blade's centrifugal forces works in both directions .

 

 

 

Just pops into my mind , ....3 1/2 years ago I've made two simple plugs also sporting attached spinnerblades , ..both of these have a nice wiggle , ....the smaller one dives down to about 2 1/2 feet max. , the larger one remains close below the surface due to it's more voluminous body providing more buoyancy .

 

Sadly I can't remember , whether they have any belly ballast , ...but I don't think so , as I've experienced , that added ballast does dampen the action of such plugs with integrated diving vanes .

 

http://www.tackleunderground.com/community/index.php?/gallery/image/2693-spinner-plugs/

 

http://www.tackleunderground.com/community/index.php?/gallery/image/2694-spinner-plugs/

 

http://www.tackleunderground.com/community/index.php?/gallery/image/2695-spinner-plugs/

 

Good luck , diemai

Edited November 14, 2013 by diemai

[scrubs]

Interesting idea. Wonder how small willow leaf blades would work as small pectoral fins.

 

 bill

[RayburnGuy]

I believe it's Lucky Craft that has a bait with a small willow blade located under the lip. Can't remember how it's attached though.

 

I've built a couple baits that had a small Colorado blade attached at the rear of the bait where the back hook hanger would normally go. This called for moving the hanger for the back hook under the body. The blade would interrupt the normal cranking action enough that the bait would make erratic moves now and then. Not running off course and then correcting itself like a hunting bait, but more like it stepped in a hole and lost it's balance for a second. You can see the bait at the link below.

 

Ben

 

http://www.tackleunderground.com/community/index.php?/gallery/image/10406-spinnerbutt-crank/

Edited November 15, 2013 by RayburnGuy

[Nathan]

Here is the bait I did ...It's dated in 04...I really think this design could be fine tuned.I think it would be great for off color water .You need to set your bill angel pretty steep and use a wide bill to offset the blades on the side of the bait....Nathan

[diemai]

@ Nathan

 

Interesting design , .....matching to my own theory the lip of your lure is a bit on oversize to provide a pronounced wobbling action to overcome the drag of both the two blades and the little tinsel on the rear hook .

 

When disassembling blades and tinsel , the lure might turn over and blow out , I reckon ?

 

@ RayburnGuy

 

I have forgotten about your design , Ben , I see that I had commented on it , ......guess , it had inspired me to do my own as well back then !

 

Greetz , Dieter

[Don-Art]

Google: Jamison Wig-L-Twin. Its a Crankbait from the late 1930's to early 1940's. It employs many of the features that you have been discussing.

[djhaddix]

Don-Art, it would appear that I am only about 70-80 years behind on this design, lol.  Hard to believe the ingenuity that some folks had so long ago, a real testament to the craft.

[Don-Art]

I have a old book on collecting fishing lures. I use it for ideas on design and paint schemes. I noticed a few other lures that used the spinner concept to different degrees. I would encourage you to go forward with your concept. I am almost certain that the Wig-L-Twin was a plastic bait.  I would believe that a wooden lure could be made to out perform a plastic lure.

Don

[toadfrog]

Here ya go .

[Don-Art]

Toad Frog,

That looks like a flying Helgramite type of lure?