cadman Posted November 16, 2013 Report Share Posted November 16, 2013 Alright guys I just started pouring this mold yesterday, Model FBB-6-SWG. Here is my current, very un-happy experience. This mold makes 1/16, 3/16,1/4, 5/16, 3/8 and 7/16 football swing hooks. Similar to the Biffle Bug Head. Well the 7/16 pours fine the 3/8 and 5/16 cavity pours fine sometimes with the hook wire form that they supply, the remainder three sizes are very badly designed. Before I go on a rampage about this matter, I am going to call Do-It on Monday and explain the problem they have with this mold. This is the problem. The wire form that fits in the mold has a very sloppy fit. So what this does, is, it moves when you put the wire form in the mold with the hook on. Well when you pour this, this way, the wire form from the weight of the hook, moves toward the edge of the mold cavity where the lead does not fill, therefore leaving the wire form to protrude outside the lead body, leaving the hook to possibly dislodge. See pics 1. This is a hit and miss on the 3/8 and 5/16 oz and the 1/4 oz and smaller is worse to useless. See open mold with cavities and wire forms. This is a engineering nightmare that to me has not been thought out properly. I am going to stop there before I say something I will regret. The only solution I found to make this work is to over bend the wire form under 90 degrees to move them in so if they move down from the weight of the hook, the tag ends will still be in the cavity, but c'mon I have to jury rig a brand new mold. Sooooooo Freakin' FRUSTRATED. Let me know if you guys are having this problem as well. Maybe I am nuts , lost my mind and don't know how to pour this mold. Thanks for any input. I'm going to pour some more today to see if I can fix this problem. The mold pours fine but the wire forms and mold cavities are way toooooo loose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalljaw Posted November 16, 2013 Report Share Posted November 16, 2013 Thanks for the heads up Ted, it almost looks like the cavities of the mold are shifted a bit. Let me know what Do-it says, I'd be interested in the fix, I hope you get this straightened out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted November 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2013 Smalljaw, I think I have a solution to this and that is crimp the tag ends of the wire for in. I will try this later and post my results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toadfrog Posted November 16, 2013 Report Share Posted November 16, 2013 First thing I thought when I saw that mold was why the form was not a quick connect so the hook goes on afterwards . So now the next best solution as far as the hook is concerned is an open eye hook you can crimp on . This only helps as far as painting is concerned . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basseducer Posted November 16, 2013 Report Share Posted November 16, 2013 Ted, On the forms I make for my version of this bait The continous lenght of wire is on the outside and the two short ends meet in the middle . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flippinfool Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 Ted, Judging from your pic it looks like the wire in the 1/4 oz was not put in the same way as the others. Maybe its my eyesite but it looks like one end of the wire is just a bit longer than the other. If your having a problem with it (they have a problem). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBehr Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 After reading the post I went out in my shop and cast 4 of each size without any issues. Up until I read the post I've only made up the two biggest sizes. It looks to me like the one in the 1/4 just needs to be nudged a bit. BUT...I do it a little different in that I don't add the hooks until after I've powder painted and cured them. It's really hard to keep the wires in the slots with the hook moving them around. I open up the eye of the hooks I use just enough to get them onto the wire and clamp them shut again. You do have to align the wire in the slots very carefully...like those darn wire bait keepers on some of their molds. Takes a lot of practice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted November 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 (edited) Ok Guys, I poured some more last night and this is what I've found. There is one looped end that is longer than the others. If you look in the mold picture above, the short looped side I think should be in the horizontal position, which is put in correctly in my cavities,1/8, 3/16 and 5/16 oz. The 1/4 oz cavity I have it backwards. However the vertical looped end on the 5/16 oz cavity would be the best solution if it stayed that way. When you put the hook on, the hook drags the loop end down and up against the cavity wall making voids in the area where the tag end of that vertical loop touches the cavity wall. If you look at the 3/16 and 1/8 oz cavity that is a prime example of how that is going to pour and you can't adjust it . The hooks will pull that wire form down, because it is on a round pivot. Edited November 17, 2013 by cadman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted November 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 Ted, On the forms I make for my version of this bait The continous lenght of wire is on the outside and the two short ends meet in the middle . TJ, I was thinking the same thing. I am going to post a pic up later to see if you and I are on the same channel.Your idea if we are on the same page is a much better design than the one Do-it is currently using. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted November 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 Ted, Judging from your pic it looks like the wire in the 1/4 oz was not put in the same way as the others. Maybe its my eyesite but it looks like one end of the wire is just a bit longer than the other. If your having a problem with it (they have a problem). There are thing you can do to make the current design work. Like when you put the hook on the wire form, push it up in the cavity, tape it this way and this would push the wire form more vertical or squeeze the looped forms closer together so they fit tightly over the pins. But I don't have time with a mickey mouse idea like that . We can all make thing work, but it should be designed and work flawlessly from the manufacturer. Any extra step we take to correct a problem, is time taken away to quickly get the pouring done and finished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted November 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 (edited) DaBehr "It's really hard to keep the wires in the slots with the hook moving them around." I totally agree with you, it would have been easier if they machined a groove to keep the wire form in place. The center pin and the slot on the bottom are way too sloppy for the wire form to sit straight. " I open up the eye of the hooks I use just enough to get them onto the wire and clamp them shut again." First of all what type of hooks are you using that you can do this to? I have opened up hook eyes that were heated, and found many to break on me. I don't want to weaken the hook eye. Also if you open it enough just to let the wire fit through the hook eye, how do you close it again, to keep the hook eye from falling out? "You do have to align the wire in the slots very carefully...like those darn wire bait keepers on some of their molds. Takes a lot of practice! " First It's funny but the other mold I bought with this one was the football mold with a wire keeper, and that mold pours flawlessly for me. The wire keeper sits tightly up against the hook and also fits in snugly in the cavity where the wire keeper is supposed to sit. The idea on how they did that was designed correctly and you can see by the finished product. You can see by the pic below, with a little cleanup, and this jig is perfect. Ready for painting, skirting and a pic of this jig in the mouth of a nice big bass. Edited November 17, 2013 by cadman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalljaw Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 I think the reason for the sloppy fit was to accommodate a multitude of hooks and hook sizes. Ask 10 anglers what size hook they use to fish a 5" Senko and you'll a few 3/0 EWG, some will say a 4/0 "J" style worm hook and others will say a 5'0 straight shank flipping hook. That reason, and that reason alone is why there is play in everything, it will allow guys to use big hooks on small weights. I agree that there has to be a better way and I also agree with the wire keepers, I'll post a pic of the new shad head, this gave me fits for the first few pours but then I discovered 2 things, the first is the mold has to be really hot as does the lead, and the second thing is you are better off using a gate shears rather than breaking off the sprue with the shad head, the reason is the eye socket extends down to the bottom so it is only a thin area of lead, bend the sprue back and forth to break it off and you end up deforming the eye socket, not a lot but enough to notice it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBehr Posted November 17, 2013 Report Share Posted November 17, 2013 For the heavier sizes (so far the only ones I have used) I use the Mustad 38101BLN hooks. They are the Grip-Pin KVD hook. It's a large eye, heavy wire hook and I bend the eye open using my split ring pliers and then close them with my leader crimping pliers. Since I'm opening the eye to the side and not towards the tie in point I'm not too worried. I have landed over two dozen bass on a single rig so far with no ill results. I really like this hook because they hold the nose of the bait very well. I've been using the Do-it Baby Berry and the 4.25" Birch bug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 Ted, On the forms I make for my version of this bait The continous lenght of wire is on the outside and the two short ends meet in the middle . Smart!!! That's the fix that Do-It needs to make. Changing the wire form is a lot easier than changing the mold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gone2long Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 What has do it said about the issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saugerman Posted November 19, 2013 Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 I have poured several of the new swivel football jigs myself, I have not noticed a problem with the sizes that I poured. Which are the 7 /16 and THE 1/4 oz . I did get one of the wire forms in wrong and had the problem that Cadman mentioned. I'm using the 4/0 Bass pro shops xps hooks in the extra wide gap. But I have not yet poured the smaller sizes, I will try to pour some and see what happens. Thanks Cadman for bringing this up, I will keep my eye on this to see if I too have this problem with the small sizes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted November 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2013 I have poured several of the new swivel football jigs myself, I have not noticed a problem with the sizes that I poured. Which are the 7 /16 and THE 1/4 oz . I did get one of the wire forms in wrong and had the problem that Cadman mentioned. I'm using the 4/0 Bass pro shops xps hooks in the extra wide gap. But I have not yet poured the smaller sizes, I will try to pour some and see what happens. Thanks Cadman for bringing this up, I will keep my eye on this to see if I too have this problem with the small sizes. Saugerman, I am going to pour some more trial samples tonight. The only thing I would watch out for is that the wire loops are not the same length. One is shorter than the other, and it seems to me that the longer one would be the one that attaches to the vertical obround boss and not the centering pin. I will post some more info later today or tomorrow. I didn't want to call Do-It until I had exhausted all possibilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toadfrog Posted November 20, 2013 Report Share Posted November 20, 2013 This is exactly why I didn't purchase one . I've been waiting to see what happens with them . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass100 Posted November 20, 2013 Report Share Posted November 20, 2013 Cadman is correct in his post. The clips could have been made with a better design so I tried a couple of different things. Molding in the hook just wasn't an option for me because I make to many types of baits that would take to many hook sizes and styles. In the picture below, the bait on top uses the standard clips from Do-It and as we all know these will fail in the smaller sizes, however, you can make your own improved clips easily. The middle bait is molded with clips I made and you can change out the hook when you want. It is not easy to bend the wire back and forth but when it does I don't know how long it will last. With the hook having the ability to pivot 360 degrees the wire will not bend easily. The bottom picture is with split rings attaching the hook to the head. I will test them all next season to see the outcome. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toadfrog Posted November 20, 2013 Report Share Posted November 20, 2013 Any one of those attachments will work . Looks like a trip to the shop is in order . Hope I got a junk fb mold so I can do my version . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted November 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2013 Guys, I poured all I'm about to pour to get my final solution to this. The smaller sizes just don't pour like the bigger sizes, as far as keeping the wire form inside the lead and keeping it away from the cavity wall. So I am going to call Do-It tomorrow and ask them for their solution. I am betting that they don't have one. I have a solution to my dilemma, but it is not practical to go through all of the work for the smaller sizes. I also have some ideas for you guys that I will share tomorrow, to make the smaller sizes work which I will also post tomorrow. Sad that there is no easy solution to this without me making my own wire forms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted November 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2013 bass100, Well I'm glad I'm not the only one with this problem. Sometimes I think I'm too picky or too critical, and want things to work like they are supposed or intended to to. Anyway, very clever ideas on how you achieved to solve this problem. Job well done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gone2long Posted November 21, 2013 Report Share Posted November 21, 2013 I'm still not sure why your not letting them know before making all these attempts at corrective homebrew measures it's seems clear your not the only one having this issue and while the irons hot get on them about it and see where they take it, good luck would like to see this resolved before hundreds of these things are sold. Pretty clear sand casting has its flaws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted November 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2013 (edited) I'm still not sure why your not letting them know before making all these attempts at corrective homebrew measures it's seems clear your not the only one having this issue and while the irons hot get on them about it and see where they take it, good luck would like to see this resolved before hundreds of these things are sold. Pretty clear sand casting has its flaws. They will know about this tomorrow. I don't want to jump the gun and tell them that their design is poor unless I've actually proven this to be true and have some solutions to this. Since no-one stepped up until today to say that they have a similar problem, I don't want to go in with guns blazing only to find out that I may have put in the clips wrong (which on one of them I did), or I may have been doing something else wrong. It's better to be prepared with facts and data and solutions then to go and tell someone that there idea sucks. No one wants to admit or be accused of being wrong even if they are. So I am approaching this diplomatically to see what they say with the facts that I have. Yes sand casting does have its flaws and no two molds are alike. Unfortunately if this were machined we wouldn't be having this conversation. Until tomorrow. Edited November 21, 2013 by cadman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallmouthaholic Posted November 21, 2013 Report Share Posted November 21, 2013 Yes sand casting does have its flaws and no two molds are alike. Unfortunately if this were machined we wouldn't be having this conversation. Until tomorrow. Precisely why I spend the money for custom,CNC molds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
