Pouring Molds

[HickoryHollow]

Ok guys, I have some questions.........

 

I have been making hard lures and spinners for a while now, but am really getting into this soft plastic stuff. I tend to jump into things with both feet, so save me if you can! lol

 

There are some things I just don't get. At least I think I don't.....

 

I ordered some Amazing Mold Rubber from (Alumilite 3/4 lb) I made a small mold tonight (4" X 5" X 1-1/4") and of course it took it all to make it. That was $20.00 worth of mold material. I can buy a similar mold from Lurecraft for $11.00 plus shipping, which would make it about $20.00.

 

Apart from the obvious of being able to customize molds, and design your own shapes, is there a reason to make your own instead of buying them? Can the material be gotten cheaper elsewhere, or is there a better way?

 

Here's another thing. The "Alumisol soft plastic was $39.00 for a gallon. I figure at least a half ounce to and ounce each for like 4" swim bates for example. That calculates out to about .30 per swim bait. I can buy them on luresonline.com for .29 already made. Am I missing something here, or is it just all about the fun and challenge?

 

I guess what I am really wanting to know, is there a cheaper, better source of materials that I don't know about that would change the game, or is this about what everybody is paying for materials and molds?

 

Thanks,

Tim

 

Edited November 19, 2013 by HickoryHollow

[alsworms]

Tim.......

 

Unfortunately, I think your answer is purchasing larger volumes.  I never really messed with RTV molds because the material was too expensive, they are time consuming to make, and (like you said) Lure Craft sells just about any body type pretty darn cheap. 

 

Also, your plastic cost is VERY expensive at $39 per gallon.  There's a store here that sells MF plastic at 25 bucks per gallon.........and even that's a little steep considering most guys buy in 5 gallon or 55-gallon drums.  Some of the larger volume guys buy several 55-gallon drums.  Like just about anything else, buy more and save more.  Trust me.........once you start getting into this, you'll go through plastic pretty fast. 

 

Best thing to do it talk to some of the plastic distributors and see what their prices are including shipping.  Shipping alone will kill you if you're not careful. 

 

Hopefully, some of the younger guys can help out with prices on these newer plastisols. 

 

Oh......and just to confuse you even more, I got into it to save money, and to make baits that no one else could.  About 2 years in, my wife was quick to tell me that I was spending a lot more making the stuff rather than buying it.  There really is nothing compared to catching a fish on your own made lure...........not to mention the possibilities are endless, but remember it's a hobby, and hobbies can be a drain on the ol' pocketbook. 

 

Good luck! 

[RayburnGuy]

I don't make molds so excuse me for butting in, but wasn't there some discussion a good while back about using RTV silicone, like what you get at hardware stores, mixed with a few drops of water to make molds? Seems like Jerry (redg8tr) was posting about experimenting with this.

 

Ben

Edited November 19, 2013 by RayburnGuy

[SlowFISH]

I'm pretty sure this hobby will not result in your baits being "cheaper"..... you'll need to make 1000's and 1000's of baits to recoup your costs once you factor in tools/time/etc.  I'd bet for most of the "hobby" guys on this site, making you're own stuff is about passion, fun, an irresistible urge to try and make things better or just too much damn time on their hands!!!  LOL!  If you are looking to make things cheaper.... I'd seriously just look for closeouts of baits you like on EBAY or overstockbait.com and buy in bulk where possible.  Not trying to be mean or discouraging - just honestly, the math doesn't really work for a "hobby" pourer.  

 

As for bringing down you're costs.  I'd recommend trying to use POP for molds..... I'd bet you can't make molds cheaper than with that stuff.  With it being cheaper, it takes more time to make the mold, they can break and depending on what you compare them too may result in slower pouring due to not cooling the baits quickly.  So you'll need to weigh cheaper (Pro) against the con's to choose you're best method.  Ton's on info on POP molds here... and some amazing results can be had.  That's where I started.

 

As for plastisol costs... hard to beat Spike it.... but again - if you try to compare buying 1 gallon of plastic from them against a company like Zoom that is probably buying tankers worth of plastisol - you'll find you are paying more per bait... not much you can do about that.

 

I believe if you're goal is to cut your bait costs - there are smarter ways to to do than making your own baits.  But if you want something nobody else has, or you have a great idea or thought that will make you enjoy fishing even more.... then jump in, join the club and get the credit card out!!!  LOL!!

 

  J.

[HickoryHollow]

SlowFISH,

 

I guess you didn't tell me anything I didn't already have figured out, or at least suspect. I have already "jumped in" and the credit card has already been out. lol.....And actually what started this is.....

 

" or you have a great idea or thought that will make you enjoy fishing even more.... then jump in"

 

Yep! That's me.....always thinking.......

 

Tim

[SlowFISH]

SlowFISH,

 

I guess you didn't tell me anything I didn't already have figured out, or at least suspect. I have already "jumped in" and the credit card has already been out. lol.....And actually what started this is.....

 

" or you have a great idea or thought that will make you enjoy fishing even more.... then jump in"

 

Yep! That's me.....always thinking.......

 

Tim

 

Yeah.... enjoy it... and start thinking of the ways to rationalize this hobby!!!! LOL!!

 

      J.

[TSuprum]

I don't make molds so excuse me for butting in, but wasn't there some discussion a good while back about using RTV silicone, like what you get at hardware stores, mixed with a few drops of water to make molds? Seems like Jerry (redg8tr) was posting about experimenting with this.

 

Ben

Your right Ben, you can use 100% silicone from the hardware store to make a mold. I've only made 1 so far but it works great. Not sure of the durability yet as i've only used it a few times. Though i'm sure for the hobbiest, it it be fine.

I made a mold in a small aluminum meatloaf pan, the cheap one's. I just keep the mold in the pan. I filled the pan half way with silicone, poured a little water in, mixed it up, smoothed out the top and emptied the excess water. After an hour i turned the pan upside down to drain any remaining water.

1 tip on this, make the mold outside and let it sit outside a couple of days before bringing it in the house. Very strong vinigar type smell. I made the mold 3 weeks ago and i can still smell the vinigar when i walk into the basement. Not a strong smell but still noticable

[TSuprum]

SlowFISH,

 

I guess you didn't tell me anything I didn't already have figured out, or at least suspect. I have already "jumped in" and the credit card has already been out. lol.....And actually what started this is.....

 

" or you have a great idea or thought that will make you enjoy fishing even more.... then jump in"

 

Yep! That's me.....always thinking.......

 

Tim

POP molds are the cheapest and i find them fun to make. If you don't like the way the mold comes out, you have only wasted like .25 cents. Also you can modify POP molds very easy. POP works great for 2 part molds also. I have read that you can even inject with POP molds. I have not tried this. I don't have an injector. I'm thinking of getting a 2oz injector in the future.

I have used the Alumilite high strength 3 to make 2 molds. One of the things i noticed, if making a mold from a soft plastic master, the lures come out thinner. Like if you mold a senko, it comes out about a 16th thinner.

BTW - if your pouring to save money, get out now before it's to late, LOL

[TSuprum]

Your right Ben, you can use 100% silicone from the hardware store to make a mold. I've only made 1 so far but it works great. Not sure of the durability yet as i've only used it a few times. Though i'm sure for the hobbiest, it it be fine.

I made a mold in a small aluminum meatloaf pan, the cheap one's. I just keep the mold in the pan. I filled the pan half way with silicone, poured a little water in, mixed it up, smoothed out the top and emptied the excess water. After an hour i turned the pan upside down to drain any remaining water.

1 tip on this, make the mold outside and let it sit outside a couple of days before bringing it in the house. Very strong vinigar type smell. I made the mold 3 weeks ago and i can still smell the vinigar when i walk into the basement. Not a strong smell but still noticable

Forgot to add, when making molds from silicone from the hardware store, you have less then 10 minutes to add the master.

[HickoryHollow]

Just a heads up.....I'm not sure if it is a national thing, or just our local Lowe's but they have 9.8 oz tubes (in a 4 pac marked buy 2 get two free)  for $11.84 for all 4 tubes. This might just be a good time to try this out!

 

Tim

[Slammingjack]

It needs to be 100% silicone! From what I understand the other stuff doesn't work the same. Also make sure you mix the water in real good. Don't take alot 1/4 tp. is find.

[HickoryHollow]

Here is what I planned to get at Lowe's. Anybody see a problem using this?

 

 

GE 9.8-oz Clear Silicone Window and Door CaulkItem #: 35166 |  Model #: LW012X4

 

 

|$18.76

Description
9.8-oz Clear Silicone Window and Door Caulk

• 100% Silicone
• Permanently Weatherproof
• NAHB Research Center Green Approved
• Unlike Acrylic, Silicone is: PERMANENTLY Waterproof, Flexible and Shrink/Crack Proof
• Non-paintable - For a paintable & permanently waterproof caulk, look for Groov by GE
• Adheres to: most wood, metal, vinyl siding, drywall/ plaster, glass & Plastic
•  
• Typical Uses: Windows, doors, siding, trim, molding, baseboards, vents, around wires/ pipes and other attic/ basement applications

 

 

 

Edited November 21, 2013 by HickoryHollow

[HickoryHollow]

Also, I was wondering, if I use the same exact process as I used when making "amazing rubber" molds it that the right thing to do? After mixing the silicone I mean.

 

Secondly, will the mold be as flexible when complete as "amazing ribber"

 

Thanks, Tim

[SlowFISH]

POP molds are the cheapest and i find them fun to make. If you don't like the way the mold comes out, you have only wasted like .25 cents. Also you can modify POP molds very easy. POP works great for 2 part molds also. I have read that you can even inject with POP molds. I have not tried this. I don't have an injector. I'm thinking of getting a 2oz injector in the future.

I have used the Alumilite high strength 3 to make 2 molds. One of the things i noticed, if making a mold from a soft plastic master, the lures come out thinner. Like if you mold a senko, it comes out about a 16th thinner.

BTW - if your pouring to save money, get out now before it's to late, LOL

 

Yep... you can inject.... I started with 2 part POP molds and hand injecting.  Two pieces of advice if you go this route..... make the molds robust/think to insure when you clamp (not too tight) that you don't crack them.... I even epoxied a piece of plywood to the back of each mold half to give it some strength.  Second... seal the mold well.... it makes all the difference in surface finish.  You can use almost anything.... but I found that the Elmers trick most on the site recommend worked best for me.

 

 

Here is what I planned to get at Lowe's. Anybody see a problem using this?

 

Enlarged Image

GE 9.8-oz Clear Silicone Window and Door Caulk

GE 9.8-oz Clear Silicone Window and Door Caulk

 

 

 

GE 9.8-oz Clear Silicone Window and Door CaulkItem #: 35166 |  Model #: LW012X4

 

 

|$18.76

Description

9.8-oz Clear Silicone Window and Door Caulk

• 100% Silicone
• Permanently Weatherproof
• NAHB Research Center Green Approved
• Unlike Acrylic, Silicone is: PERMANENTLY Waterproof, Flexible and Shrink/Crack Proof
• Non-paintable - For a paintable & permanently waterproof caulk, look for Groov by GE
• Adheres to: most wood, metal, vinyl siding, drywall/ plaster, glass & Plastic
•  
• Typical Uses: Windows, doors, siding, trim, molding, baseboards, vents, around wires/ pipes and other attic/ basement applications

 

 

 

Not sure if this will or wont work... you may have to buy and try.  The difficulty with most of the "Home Depot" type silicones is they are not made to be applied thick..... they are made for filling cracks and corners not thicker than 1/4" or so.... when you make a "block" of it for a mold the outside cures but the inside doesn't.  The two part silicones you buy from the prototype/hobby places cure all the way through.

 

   J.

[HickoryHollow]

From what I understand.....that is if I do.......mixing a couple of table spoons of water in the silicone changes all that. I guess clearification of that is one of the things I am looking for.

 

Tim

[Slammingjack]

Yes adding water changes all that. Silicone by itself takes about 24 hours to cure. With very little water 1/4 tp is fine. It will setup in an hour. But the smell is super bad, will take your breath way. Don't do this indoors. As you mix in the water the silicone will change from clear to a kind of a very light off white . If you added too much water, the water won't mix in. Pour the water off before adding silicone to the mold.The mold will be stiff, but flexiable. I got a post somewhere on here. That I will add later. That silicone should work. Never used GE always use Ace brand. So don't hold me to it.

[Slammingjack]

hmmm here's more info.

 

http://www.tackleunderground.com/community/index.php?/topic/26618-local-mold-making-material/?hl=slammingjack#entry203760

[HickoryHollow]

^{Slammingjack,}

^{Awesome information, thanks for posting it!}

^Tim

[TSuprum]

Yes adding water changes all that. Silicone by itself takes about 24 hours to cure. With very little water 1/4 tp is fine. It will setup in an hour. But the smell is super bad, will take your breath way. Don't do this indoors. As you mix in the water the silicone will change from clear to a kind of a very light off white . If you added too much water, the water won't mix in. Pour the water off before adding silicone to the mold.The mold will be stiff, but flexiable. I got a post somewhere on here. That I will add later. That silicone should work. Never used GE always use Ace brand. So don't hold me to it.

I used this GE silicone and it worked, GE white sikicone kitchen and bathroom caulk. It is 100% silicone. The one i used, on the label, in a gold box says, 3hr shower ready, 5 year mold protection. It also says, premium waterproof silicone in a red area. Not sure why it worked but it did. I bought it to patch some spots in my shower and then used what was left to try making a mold.

i did let it sit outside for a couple of days before using it. It stunk to bad to bring it to the basement, lol

[jeffcpr]

Thanks for all the info guys i will be trying this in the morning. I have been xoing POP molds they do the job, but i am looking to make a swim bait out of clay and this looks like it might work. I am going to follow the direction and keep my fingers crossed.

[HickoryHollow]

Ok, here is the outcome of my little experiment with GE silicone. I made a little "fish sculpture" of modeling clay. I put a ton of details in that little fish. I made gills, scales with mesh, and vanes in the fins. I then mixed up a batch of the silicone and water. It makes a nice mold in general, but the water doesn't "thin" the silicone (nor is it really supposed to). It is so thick going over the blank, it didn't pick up any of the detail at all. When finished, and a soft plastic prototype was poured, it was pretty much (an almost) fish shaped blob. I was very disappointed after all the work I put into that little "sculpture". But hey.....nothing ventured, nothing gained...it was worth a try. Just thought I would pass that along.

 

Tim

[Slammingjack]

First of all silicone is not pourable. Way too thick for that. Make a mold box four sides a top and bottom. I use tile or whatever for the bottom. Fill the box full even to the top with silicone. Take you model and push it in from the top, until it's just above the edge of the box. Place the top on and press down until even with the top. No need to hold the top down. It helps if your box is hard so it don't give. I use wood for the sides and top. If done right  it will pick up all the details. Even some you didn't mean it to. Like paint brush marks. If you have very thin parts they may break off when pushing it down.  Pushing it down from top and putting a top on it will give you a mold with a nice flat top as well as it pushes the excess and most of the air pockets out of the mold. Try it again this way it does work real well. I have made like a 12 molds this way. So I know it works and is a cheaper way to make open pour molds with a hard model.

[Slammingjack]

here  is a pic of a mold with model in it and the bait it makes. If you have fins on top and/or bottom. Then put the model in on it's bottom or top first and push down.

[jeffcpr]

My mold is in the box as we speak there hand made clay swimbaits are in it. It was very easy to make just need to see what the end product is going to be. I will share my results later.

[jeffcpr]

Ok back to the drawing board after 4 hours of drying it is not coming out of the box sticking to the top bottom and sides and peeling apart. It is a cold day here maybe that has something to do with it. I will give it till tomorrow and try again mean while i am going to get some more silicone and get ready for the next try. Could you put worm oil on the sides top and bottom as well as the clay to help them come out at the end just a question.