Rip-n-Lips Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 As the title says is this a bad idea? I normally do this outdoors but with winter officially here I am not pouring jigs in single digit temps. Should I be worried about fumes in my basement and breathing this in. Would probably do 100 jigs or so. Thanks for your time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallmouthaholic Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 (edited) This subject was discussed before on TU. I do not wish to start a fight nor hear all the false justifications for not using proper exhaust/ventilation when pouring lead. I'm simply amazed @ those who pour lead, work w/ hot plastisol and powder paint w/ no reguard for their lungs and health. Those who wish to remain healthy have an adequate exhaust booth and/or window fan in close proximity of the emitting fumes.A simple buring candle placed 12'' in front of you pot-located where the lead enters your molds,will tell you if your exhaust system isadequate Those who don't want to spend the money will claim that lead fumes will not harm you. I know personally of a husband and wife team who poured lead sinkers in their basement w/ no exhaust booth. Both ended up w lead poisonnng and were fortunate the lead cold be medically removed from there blood levels. Edited for spelling Edited December 10, 2013 by smallmouthaholic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass100 Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 (edited) There are a lot of different opinions on lead fumes and that is because it is very very very rare to get lead poisoning from lead fumes. As lure makers we have no reason to go above 800 degrees when pouring our lead unless we are fluxing our lead for the first time. Under 900 degrees lead does not produce a vapor unless there are other contaminates in the lead which is why you should flux your lead before you pour with it. The MSDS for lead says fumes won't be produced until over 1000 degrees. All this being said there is still no reason to not have ventilation or at least wear a mask. The #1 type of lead poisoning is ingestion and for us lure makers that usually comes down to keeping our work space clean and not eating, drinking, smoking, etc while pouring or working with lead. Edited December 10, 2013 by bass100 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallmouthaholic Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 Unless you use a calibrated, digital pyrometer w/ an imersion probe you have no idea what temp. your lead is at. Various Lee pots can heat lead in excess of 900-1000 degrees and that is a fact based upon 25 years experience pouring lead jigsin conjuction w/ a digital pyrometer. Conjecture concening the use of toxic materials can lead to serious health years later. To each his own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rip-n-Lips Posted December 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 Sounds like I will be making skirts and thats about it until spring Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 As the title says is this a bad idea? I normally do this outdoors but with winter officially here I am not pouring jigs in single digit temps. Should I be worried about fumes in my basement and breathing this in. Would probably do 100 jigs or so. Thanks for your time The short answer is don't do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 I pour in the garage and get my blood tested every year. There is a lot of discussion about this. So I'm in 100% agreement with bass 100. I however would not pour in the basement or in the house. This is just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gone2long Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 Why anybody would suggest you take a chance with lead in the house where you eat, sleep and play is beyond me even if the fumes don't produce anything just the fact of handling it in your domicile is beyond rationale. Wait for the warmer weather and take up fly tying! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalljaw Posted December 11, 2013 Report Share Posted December 11, 2013 I pour in my basement, I use a small fan with a small window open, don't sound like much, the basement is 8' under the ground so when you open the window the air flows right out, some kind of thermal dynamic going on but it works great and you can't even light a candle near my work station. I also purchased a tpi thermocoupler with a round immersion probe when I was told my lead can get to temps sufficient enough to develop fumes. My pot when set at number 7, which is the highest I have to go normally reads at 718.41 F I have tried it on 8 and 9 and I only have been able to get it to 804.06 F, so I'm assuming I'm good as I have proper ventilation and my lead is under the 960+ degrees it takes to vaporize. Being that I have cancer it is a must to tell my doctors I play with molten lead and thus my blood is checked every month, my lead levels are almost non-existent or as the doc puts it, you'd never know I was around it other than every day dealings. Yes, you can never be too safe and you'd be foolish not to take precautions but you can pour in your basement, I'm doing it 17 years and my cancer isn't connected to lead in any way shape or form, more like from the chemicals I worked with at my job. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted December 11, 2013 Report Share Posted December 11, 2013 Good Point Smalljaw. I guess I should have clarified that I don't pour in the basement because I have a carpeted finished basement, and I have spilled lead on a carpet once and well it ruins the carpet. I don't use a fan at all in my garage, maybe I should. However like mentioned my lead levels don't even register. I am, a firm believer in getting your blood checked at least once a year if you pour a lot like I do. I do have a question for you guys. Why is it that sometimes when I want to quote a member here it works and sometimes not. This is so frustrating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gone2long Posted December 11, 2013 Report Share Posted December 11, 2013 I'm having the same problem Cadman very frustrating having to type it out in order to post. My concern as well as it should be for all is the bigger picture, we all have or do use lead from varied sources and I just get a kick out of how people would think that because they fluxed their lead that it's virgin in some way who knows what's in the lead you're using and what's being vaporized as a result. These elements don't necessarily follow leads rule of vaporizing @ + 960F. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalljaw Posted December 11, 2013 Report Share Posted December 11, 2013 I'm having the same problem Cadman very frustrating having to type it out in order to post. My concern as well as it should be for all is the bigger picture, we all have or do use lead from varied sources and I just get a kick out of how people would think that because they fluxed their lead that it's virgin in some way who knows what's in the lead you're using and what's being vaporized as a result. These elements don't necessarily follow leads rule of vaporizing @ + 960F. That is a great point! In my case I know the source, it is plumbers lead I got when my neighbor, who had a plumbing business, retired and moved and thus I got a few hundred pounds of clean unused plumbers lead and I'm in the process of working out a deal for clean lead with a bunch of guys that are into sporting clays and trap shooting, they have a little club and they pour their own shot and they are going to get a large amount at a good price and it is more than they could use so with any luck I may be able to get clean lead for like $.60/LB. The point is I don't use wheel weights anymore since they started making them stick on ones and because of the garbage that is in lead I try to use only good lead that I know where it comes from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gone2long Posted December 11, 2013 Report Share Posted December 11, 2013 I also had a source of plumber's "virgin pig lead" ingots and I'm sure many have experienced this I fluxed it using both candle wax and then purpose made flux poured my pot ingots and thought all was good. I charged a brand new Lee pot and started pouring and man did it pour well, but after 3 or so sessions I started having a bad dripping problem so I dumped the lead out and found almost a 1/4 cup of crap in the bottom of the pot totally surprised to be sure. I believe the alloys broke out of solution as I tested my pot temp and it was well over 750F on the number 7 setting, since pouring for some time it seems that the pot on setting 7 has actually settled to around 720F but I've found plumber's lead to be just as dirty as other sources at least that's been my experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rip-n-Lips Posted December 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2013 So to the guys that pour indoors. You believe it needs to get up to 700 plus degrees for any harmful fumes (if I read some of these correct.) I bet you don't bake/cure your powder paint in your wife's kitchen oven or do you? Since this only needs about 350 plus or minus a few. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBehr Posted December 11, 2013 Report Share Posted December 11, 2013 You may not get sick from lead fumes...but depending on where you get your lead...the other stuff will get you! Lead dust control is really critical. The other issue I would have with making lead jigs indoors would be the control and clean up of all the little pieces of lead you get from trimming off sprues, flash, etc. You really don't want a child crawling around in that stuff and ingesting it, tracking it around the house, etc. Rip brings up a good question...are there issues with putting your jigs in the kitchen oven to cure? The paint itself is non toxic ...but fumes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallmouthaholic Posted December 11, 2013 Report Share Posted December 11, 2013 Years ago i tried pig lead ingots- yes it's soft but extremely dirty- even after fluxing I will not use it for free as the dirt causes pouring problems. Enough said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gone2long Posted December 11, 2013 Report Share Posted December 11, 2013 I look at it this way it's only non toxic when handled according to the manufacturers instructions they're not going to scare customers away by telling you all the awful things that could happen if mishandled or deviate from the norm. I'm quite sure non toxic would become toxic if you overheated powder paint in your home oven. I laugh but here's an example albeit not quite the same material issues. I was watching the news the other day and someone concluded in one of those million dollar studies that if you like your French fries on the dark side you're increasing your chance of cancer, damn it I like the dark French fries Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallmouthaholic Posted December 11, 2013 Report Share Posted December 11, 2013 Place a white towel under your fluid bed and see how much particulate matter it collects from powder coating/dipping. The smell coming from the oven while curing sets off a red flag w/me. I do all of my powder coating.dipping and curing in an exhaust booth.I maybe a safety freak but value my breathing system. A very interesting and education article on protecting your lungs http://drbenkim.com/prevent-lung-disease.htm Baby powder is safe/- right? http://www.babble.com/baby/the-baby-powder-controversy/ Lead fumes and powder paints are certainly not baby powder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 (edited) Smallmouthaholic is right. You will be amazed at how much fine stuff drops around your cup when you powder coat. The whole purpose of fluid beds is to get the powder to fluff, suspended by moving air, and the finest dust that we can't even see is carried up and out, and falls all around the cup. I am fortunate in that I live where I can do my painting/powder coating/soft plastic pouring in front of my open garage, with a box fan in the back blowing out, or on my tablesaw at the front of the garage. I used to pour lead the same way. Fumes and dust are not something I wanted in my lungs. I breathed enough of that crap at work for years, using only an neckerchief over my nose and mouth as a dust mask. Ignorance is bliss, I guess. But now, with the wisdom of hindsight, I never do any of that stuff without really good ventilation. I know the really fine stuff, that you can't see, but that gets into the air and inhaled really easily, is the real danger, and that stuff comes with what we do. Edited December 12, 2013 by mark poulson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gone2long Posted December 12, 2013 Report Share Posted December 12, 2013 And to think all this time I thought I was unique with fluorescent orange boogies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLT Posted December 15, 2013 Report Share Posted December 15, 2013 Wow, some of you are brutal with your way being the right way. If I had a "finished" basement, no....I would not pour there. Unfinished.....maybe. Get yourself a used range hood (do not steal the one on your wifes oven lol) and hang it right above the pot. Vent it directly out the window. Then MAYBE I do mine in the garage. Rough melt and wax outside, and up wind, but when it comes to pouring the jigs, in the garage, window and door open, fan on. When powder coating...dust mask on. Haven't blown a colored booger since. Use a toaster oven you can find at yard sales or craigslist. Opinions are great, and helpful, but man, some of you come across just a little strong lol. Some of you are probably afraid of everything your gooberment tells you to be afraid of. Me, I'm afraid of the Gooberment any more lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAWJigs Posted December 15, 2013 Report Share Posted December 15, 2013 Front pourch for me ...I don't care how cold, hot, or wet it is ( my front pourch in a certain area don't get touched by rain). I pour outside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gone2long Posted December 15, 2013 Report Share Posted December 15, 2013 I don't see it as pushing my way on anybody just trying to bring as many factors to the front for the OP so he can make a conscious decision on how wants to proceed. I know for sure I'd want to know if there was a danger or health issue in what I was about to do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasilofchrisn Posted December 15, 2013 Report Share Posted December 15, 2013 I do all my pouring in my Garage. Usually with the garage door open. I make all my ingots from scrap outside and do my initial fluxing out there as well. I understand the need to protect our health. And we do need to consider the health of our families as well. I don't think I would do this at home if I had small children but since I don't.... Ventilation is a very good idea for all of this type stuff. I use a toaster oven from a garage sale for my powder paint. I have used my kitchen oven when I first started for a couple of times. But it was a big hassle so I decided the toaster oven was the way to go. I found a good one at a garage sale for a reasonable price. I also like that I can have a batch going in the toaster oven where I can monitor it while I paint more jigs. I think we all need to be careful with all of this stuff. But I don't think we need full on toxic spill cleanup gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gone2long Posted December 15, 2013 Report Share Posted December 15, 2013 I agree, the original poster was asking for opinions and that's what's been provided I just find it hard to understand why someone would say go ahead just do it I do without offering precautionary advice is kinda off I can tell for sure that 90% of us have either used or use lead with foreign elements that will, can and do cause ill health affects, to err on the side of caution is a good rule of thumb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
