Lead In Lip

[CarverGLX]

Anybody know of a good way to put lead in the lip of a crankbait? Brainstorming about it. Have seen someone on here places it on the wire leading from the line tie to the bait but looking for a way to get it in the lip itself. Somehow make a mold and pour it in the lip? Or drill a hole, insert a similar sized shot and press?

Would really like to have one where the line tie is like the old bagley DB1's. Maybe make a mold to hold the line tie wire and pour lead around it. Drill hole in lip the size of the poured lead, epoxy in place? Seems hard to get a clean looking product at the end with epoxy on the bill but haven't tried this.

Any ideas appreciated. Thanks all.

[diemai]

The cleanest way would be a machined aluminium mold , into which the wire form can be inserted and then the lead plug cast onto it , .......assembly to lip and lureblank would be done after casting , naturally .

 

But this would require precisely and repeatative equally shaped wire forms , also lips and lure blanks would have to be absolutely the same to correspondent with the ballast piece for piece .

 

Guess , this would only be worthwile for a bigger serial production .

 

If I wanted a lure being heavier at the lip end , I might make the lip from metal sheet instead of Lexan , or just glue in a metal bar(brass or stainless steel) between wireform and lip(line tie eye passing through both metal bar and lip) , ....so straight underneath the Lexan lip , but also anchored into the lurebody just like the lip itsself .

 

Just my   , .......good luck , diemai

[BobP]

My guess is that the lead plugs in Bagleys were installed by mechanically compressing the plug to expand it after it was placed in a hole.  Casting hot lead into a plastic lip might be a problem.

[CarverGLX]

Thanks guys. All sounds good.

Diemai,

definitely have to have a repeatable form to make a mold with the wire. I think the biggest problem would be making the mold. I'm thinking about something like they used. Sort of the shape of a mushroom with the eye coming out the "stem". Weight could even be adjusted slightly by filing the "cap" on the bottom of the bill. Could even be as simple as two cylinders stacked on each other like a wedding cake with the top cylinder being a little taller than the bill  thickness and the bottom being a larger diameter and thickness whatever needed for the weight.

 

BobP,

Thats my thought looking at them too. After a weight is molded maybe press the weight to expand it while positioned in the bill. I'm imagining a steel bar with a slot cut the width of the tow eye being hammered against a hard flat surface on the back. A vice may be better though due to control. I broke mine this last summer . High quality metal of far far eastern origin I'm sure. I'm not that strong.

 

Has anyone tried anything similar to these methods?

[RayburnGuy]

There are a couple styles of my baits that I put lead in the lip. The way I do it is to use solid core solder. The solder is 1/8" on diameter so I drill a slightly larger hole in the lip where I want the weight to be. I then cut a length of solder that is approximately 1/4" long. This is placed in the hole making sure that the solder sticks out past the lip equally on both sides. I then brad the solder with a hammer until it flattens out and is tight in the hole in the lip.

 

I don't have a picture of one handy, but if you don't understand what I'm talking about I will take a picture and post it.

 

Ben

[CarverGLX]

Thanks Ben.

I understand. You put this in front of the tow point I assume? Have you ever tried molding one?

[RayburnGuy]

My pleasure Carver. No, never tried molding. Don't build a large amount of baits this way so can't see a need for me personally. On one style of bait I put the weight at the front of the lip in line with the tow point. On another one I drill a hole in each of the front corners of the lip. This is done if a little more weight is needed. Be sure to leave at least 3/16" between edge of hole and edge of lip. This will keep the Lexan from cracking when you brad the solder. If even more weight was needed I guess you could put a weight in all three locations. Never had to do this since I was able to achieve the balance point I was looking for with one or two pieces of solder.

 

Ben

[caster]

Mr. Guy,

 

We have made several styles of lip weights for several builders. We cast the custom wire form in the mold. They use a custom fixture to press the weight in the bill. Hope this will help you.

 

CASTER

[JBlaze]

CarverGLX          

 

Several years ago I faced this same dilemma which you are
facing. I was using hard lead weights (recycled
tire weights)  I drilled the hole
slightly larger than the round balls and beat them on an anvil with a hammer to
flatten and tighten them up.It worked but was not symmetrical and was very
ugly.

 

 I posted basically
the same question as yourself and got a response from one of the Hardbait Guru’s.
I have searched the forums and tried to find this post so that I can give
credit where credit is due. Unfortunately I was unable to find it. So thanks to
the unknown Guru  you get it from me in
my own words.

 

This guru told me that I needed a tool , He had a name for
it which I can’t remember but from his description of what it did I was able to
make one. I used a small piece of aluminum sheet 3/8in thick and a 1/2in steel
bolt. Using a drill bit,  I made a
concave dimple in the aluminum sheet then made another matching  concave dimple in the threaded end of the bolt.
I put the lead ball weight in the dimpled aluminum sheet then center the lip
over the lead ball (that is the hard
part,  getting it centered half way on
the lead ball) and the dimpled
end of the bolt on top of the lead ball then proceeded to tap the head of the
bolt with a hammer. Just a few light taps and the leadwill tighten in the hole,
a few more and it will start to spread over the edge of the hole. It will not
fall out.

 

You can file the domed top and bottom of the lead ball with
a file and it looks pretty neat and professional.

 

Had not thought about Ben's use of soft solder.  Also his advice about keeping your drilled
hole about 3/16in. away from edge of bill is Spot-On.

 

Between work and grandchildren , I don’t have much time for tinkering
with lures but I am still lurking in the shadows and keeping up with TU. I have
learned much here through the unselfish generosity of the Guru’s of TU and when
it is my turn, I try to give back when I can. I owe this board a lot.

 

Again, thanks to all who have helped me learn .

 

I hope this was not too confusing and helps you with your endeavor.

 

John

[JBlaze]

I just re-read my post and Now that I think about it, it may have been called a doming tool. Not sure. Any one know what it was?

[CarverGLX]

Thanks again guys. Great info. Sounds like some tool making, mold making, "sperimenting" might be in order.

Caster,

I'm guessing you would need a larger run to place an order and previous molds are under contract....?

Probably going to try something on break like Jblaze is talking about. Seems like a better option on my numbers and more flexible as well. May make a deep diver/suspender over break if I finish my other run. Very interested.

Thanks again guys.

[FatSack]

A rivet set would work to "dome" the head. Thats what we use in the avaition industry to buck rivets.Its a concave head that fits over the rivet of appropriate size.(JBlaze) As you said one could be made very easily with drilling a dimple into a bolt. The process of drilling a hole and then bucking a piece of lead into a lip would or should be fairly easy. The secret to bucking a pretty rivet is the pressure on the bucking bar (on the back side) not the pressure on the dome side. So holding the "doming" tool very loosely and allowing the pressure or force coming from the bottom would create a better looking result instead of smashing it from the top. A rivet gun is basically a impact chisel with a dome tool or rivet set. The spring makes the tool bounce, thus allowing the force from bucking bar to smash bottom not top of rivet. Hope this makes sense.

[edgecrusher]

I've seen some that are cast with the wire in a mold and then epoxied into the hole in the lip.

[diemai]

@ JBlaze

 

Great idea about this "riveting" , ...would come neat enough and well suited for smaller production numbers , I guess .

 

Cheers , Dieter

[mark poulson]

I bet you could make a "riveting" pair of pliers by forming cones on the inside faces of a pair of stout lineman's pliers out of JB Weld.  That stuff is very strong, and that way you could put your disc of lead, slightly taller than the lip material, into the drilled hole, put the pliers onto the disc, hold the bait so the disc is centered, and then squeeze.  I think you'd have much more control than if you try to swage the lead with a hammer.

[CarverGLX]

I bet you could make a "riveting" pair of pliers by forming cones on the inside faces of a pair of stout lineman's pliers out of JB Weld.  That stuff is very strong, and that way you could put your disc of lead, slightly taller than the lip material, into the drilled hole, put the pliers onto the disc, hold the bait so the disc is centered, and then squeeze.  I think you'd have much more control than if you try to swage the lead with a hammer.

Great idea as well. Thanks.

 

Could even make this by making "molds" by drilling metal plate and attaching to the pliers. By using the JB Weld idea though you could form it to the shape of the bill and centering it would no longer be an issue. Just wondering about the amount of force required...Probably not a problem due to past experiences crimping lead shot with pliers. I use soft lead too so it shouldn't be as bad.  Seems like a great idea, and it is very repeatable. Thank you.

[JBlaze]

Hey Carver GLX, I finally found the post, It was Lincoya that answered the post. The tool was called an "Anvil and Setter".  Many Thanks Gene!

 

http://www.tackleunderground.com/community/index.php?/topic/13057-weighting-a-bibbill/

Edited December 19, 2013 by JBlaze

[CarverGLX]

Thanks JBlaze,

Hope to give it a go in about a week.

[mark poulson]

Hey Carver GLX, I finally found the post, It was Lincoya that answered the post. The tool was called an "Anvil and Setter".  Many Thanks Gene!

 

http://www.tackleunderground.com/community/index.php?/topic/13057-weighting-a-bibbill/

 

Man, you have a great memory!  I had forgotten all about that thread!

 

I remember, long ago, seeing some kind of crimping pliers on a ammo reloading site that might work, but, like I said, I have a lousy memory so I don't know where I saw it.  That was looooong ago, in a land far away.  Hahaha

Edited December 20, 2013 by mark poulson

[fatfingers]

There are a couple styles of my baits that I put lead in the lip. The way I do it is to use solid core solder. The solder is 1/8" on diameter so I drill a slightly larger hole in the lip where I want the weight to be. I then cut a length of solder that is approximately 1/4" long. This is placed in the hole making sure that the solder sticks out past the lip equally on both sides. I then brad the solder with a hammer until it flattens out and is tight in the hole in the lip.

 

I don't have a picture of one handy, but if you don't understand what I'm talking about I will take a picture and post it.

 

Ben

That is very cool work. Post a picture if you would. I don't use lead in the lip but I like how you went about it and would love to see what it looks like when it's done.

[rhersh]

I'm with fatfingers. Show us some pic's. it sounds interesting to me also. You the man Ben.

Edited December 20, 2013 by rhersh

[RayburnGuy]

Here's a pic of a bait with a single piece of solder in the center of the lip. On bigger baits with bigger lips I'll sometimes put two pieces of lead in the lip. One in each front corner. Don't make fun of the glue job on the lip. Got a little carried away with the epoxy on this one.   Fish don't seem to mind though.

 

If you decide to try this one thing to remember is to keep the lead straight when you start bradding it. If it is leaning you end up making it bigger as you flatten it out. Keep it straight and it just seems to mold down into itself.

 

Ben

Edited December 20, 2013 by RayburnGuy

[rhersh]

Thank's for the pic. Ben. It helps explain alot, especially for a guy like me. LOL

Edited December 21, 2013 by rhersh

[RayburnGuy]

Thank's for the pic. Ben. It helps explain alot, especially for a guy like me. LOL

 

My pleasure. That's why we all come to TU.

 

I actually started experimenting with this method to be able to play with the balance of the lure. By changing the center of gravity you can have an effect on the X'ing action of the bait. 

 

Ben

Edited December 21, 2013 by RayburnGuy

[clemmy]

A "faux" way to do it would be to use a suspend-dot (or epoxy dots using hole punch and sheet lead/ lead tape) on top and on bottom of undrilled lip. Then drill your normal 2 line tie holes through the lead/lip/lead sandwich and install line tie normally.

Craig