Air Pressure/airbrush

[seanmarty93]

Hey guys, I've got another rookie question. I have a cheap, double action, gravity fed, master pro airbrush that I ordered off ebay to get me started making and painting crankbaits. I plan on getting another more quality brush in the future, probably the Iwata BR that Dakota Lakes recommends. I realize the Master Pro model is cheap and of poor quality, but it is all I could afford at the time, and I didn't want to spend a lot of money before I knew whether or not I would be good enough to do a decent job airbrushing. I have been happy with my airbrush for the most part. It has really done a decent job, especially considering the price, and the fact that it came with 3 needle sizes: .05  .03  and .02. However, I am curious about a couple of things I would like your input/advice on. 

 

I am using createx paints and have thinned them down to the consistency of milk or maybe a tad thinner. I basically poured out about 1/6 to 1/4  of the full bottle of paint, and thinned using the recipe I found that seems to be popular of denatured alcohol, glycerin, non ammonia window cleaner and distilled water.  I am also using the .02 tip. In order to shoot my paint, I am  having to set my air pressure at 25 to 35 psi for opaques. and as high as 40 to 50 psi for pearlized paints.Are those typical pressures to shoot paint?  I am very good about keeping my airbrush clean, cleaning and back pressure washing the brush between colors, and cleaning it thoroughly every couple of days by taking it apart and getting every last atom of paint off of needle, out of nozzle and every other nook and cranny. This has been working fine for me, however, the problem I'm having is trying to get in close and do any type of detail work. I feel like that the air pressure is to high, so that when I get the airbrush close to the lure im working on (1 1/2" to 1/2")  and try  to apply paint, the paint wants to splatter rather than lightly mist. If I turn my pressure down, the paint wont flow at all, and If I thin my paint anymore, I feel like it will be way to thin. Can I chalk it off to just the fact that I have a cheap brush and am expecting to much, or am I missing something that I should be doing in order to accomplish some close in detail work? I also wondered if maybe I need to be using one of the other larger needles, but again, seems to negate trying to get some finer detailing done. Any input would be greatly appreciated!!!!! 

[RayburnGuy]

Spraying pearls with a .02 nozzle is one reason your having trouble. Try using the .03 and see if you get better results. The .03 nozzle is what I'm using and the pearls spray fine through it. The slightly larger nozzle should also allow you to use lower pressure settings. With properly thinned paint I can shoot it at pressures as low as 5 psi. I can't comment on the mix your using to thin your paint as I use the Createx 4011 reducer and have no problems.

 

Try changing the nozzle to the .03 and see if that helps. If your still having trouble try thinning your paint a little more. Just keep in mind that if you thin the paint too much it looses it's ability to stick together in a thin film. If your paint starts to leave voids and acts like it's pulling away from itself then you've thinned your paint too much.

 

Ben

[BobP]

You need to hold the tip of the airbrush very close to the surface when you do detail lines.  Many guys remove the tip protector from the airbrush to get REALLY close.  Your brush needs to shoot thinned standard Createx paint colors at about 10-12 psi.  It sounds to me like you are shooting with too much pressure and are maybe trying to thin the paint too much.  If too thin, paint loses its ability to form a coherent film and beads up like water.  Createx says their paint will thin down to 50% max.  Whatever thinning medium you use, it's often true that you need to thin the paint just before you shoot it.  Various thinners, including some homebrew formulas, can change the chemistry of the paint over time and can even cause pigment to precipitate into a hard sludge.

 

All this fiddling with thinning, etc is one reason I use templates for details.  So do lure factories.  Plus, my hands are getting shaky!

[gone2long]

If you read on I think your going to find that a .2mm needle/nozzle is going to give you fits with standard createx I use wicked and auto air and use my .35 and .38 with great results and yes you will need to up the PSI with the pearlized and metallic paints as the particulate size is much larger. You will still be able to pull some fine lines as mentioned if you remove the crown cap but you better have a backup set just in case you bend you needle tip. The Revolution I believe is a .3 and works for Dakota.

[seanmarty93]

Well If I can thin the paint up to fifty percent than maybe I need to thin them more. I thinned my paint between 25 and 35 % if I had to guess. Some bottles seemed a bit thicker than others for some reason. I'll switch over to the .03 nozzle also. Bob I use stencils as well, but for, lets say a kill dot, instead of holding the brush closer and spraying a little paint, I have to hold it 5 or 6 inches away and waste a lot of paint in order to get an even coat because my pressure has to be so  high to push the paint. I'm thinking I need to thin more. How much reducer to you guys use with your creates paints? I'm using the wicked colors and a few pearlized colors. 

[Bruce Johns]

I'm taking notes on all this.   Thanks everyone for helping us newbies. 

[crzyjunyer]

im using auto air paints and i thin mine to "taste", and it varies with every color and type paint. I mix my paint first in a communion cup (unless its one i know doesn't need thinning) and try to get it to move "like milk" in the cup. Some paints like pearls and metallics need alot of thinning where others need little to none quite often. One thing i also keep handy is transparent base. I use it to "un-thin" or also to tone down a color to get it to spray even more transparently to get the look i want to achieve. I normally spray at 20-ish psi working pressure (guage reading with trigger depressed). 

[Musky Glenn]

I would recommend you tape up a piece of white paper and experiment with different tips, pressure and thinning. I would install the .05 tip and then go through this test. The first thing I do when I have an unknown problem is start eleminating each varible one at a time. Gun trouble- I spray plain water through it, that will let you know if it is the gun. Paint thickness- thin it down till it sprays with thirty pounds of pressure. Pressure- run the pressure up until it sprays then come down to what you need for your application. In my openion it is important to do the trials in that order. When you come down with the pressure you may have to thin the paint more to spray at a lower pressure. Then I would go to a smaller tip and try it . That is how I deal with the "no spray gun". It doesn't sound to me like a problem with a cheap gun. It may not do the fine work you are wishing for, but it should spray paint. Good luck Musky Glenn

Edited March 3, 2014 by Musky Glenn

[gone2long]

excellent advice above I will only add that I use the 4012 high performance reducer with my wicked and auto air, try to stay away reducing with water I know some will say they use it with no problems but if you use a proprietary reducer or equivalent you won't be stretching the paints film setting/strength properties like water can/will do, it's a bit pricey but you sound like you're doing this as a hobby so it will go along way. I Have and still do use future floor shine as well as the 5608 illustration base which is a solvent based reducer with the standard createx line and your right on pigment size is different from color to color in the same paint line so there is no one set fits all.

[BobP]

Maybe I'm a block head but I almost never thin paint.  I mostly shoot at 20-30 psi.  I use Createx and quite a few taxidermy paints (which usually come pre-thinned).  I do all details with templates.  I just don't have the ability to do both sides of a crank exactly the same without templates.  I envy a lot of the wonderful art I see on TU baits in the Gallery - but when it comes down to it, I see crankbaits as practical tools and don't think bass have that level of art appreciation. 

[seanmarty93]

Holy Cow!! Changed to .03 tip.......what a difference! I can now spray paint nicely down to 10 psi! I cant believe that 1/100th of more diameter would make that big of a difference! Thanks for all your input fellas. Much appreciated!

Sean

[BobP]

I won't do the math but tip size is like taking the area of a circle.  The area of a circle with a radius 1 1/2 times the radius of a smaller circle is considerably larger in area.  How an airbrush shoots also has a lot to do with the size of the particles in the paint.  For me, the .3mm tip is just right for crankbaits and the different brands of paint I use.

[BobP]

xx

Edited March 4, 2014 by BobP

[saltshaker]

I never thin paint, either. I do use that Createx stuff that makes the paint more transparent, but, it doesn't thin. Just turn the pressure down (or up) and roll with it.

[gone2long]

Not with a .2mm needle\nozzle with straight createx your not by the time you get the pressure up to spray it will prolly blow the air valve apart  the pigment isn't milled or refined enough for that.

[Arkie]

This may just sound like more of the same, but it's been my experience that you can get bits and pieces from every post - I know I do. 

 

I use Createx almost exclusively. I use 4 brushes, all siphon-feed. I use a 0.3 tip for all heavier base coating, pearls, iridescents, opaques and the few Wicked paints I use (not a big fan, even with proper reducer). All of these applications are thinned (water only), and shot at 40 psi.   The other 3 brushes use a 0.1 tip. One is used at 40 psi with water-thinned transparents. One is used for detail work with water-thinned transparents, and is shot at <20 psi. This brush has a small inline regulator attached that requires no adjustment. These three brushes are all attached to the same compressor system. The final brush is attached to a stand-alone hobby compressor - it seems to perform best this way and is as my effects brush for stippling/splatter/misting, etc.,with hood removed.

 

Achieving fine airbrush detail is a skill that requires much practice and good equipment. I wish I was better at it, but must admit that it is difficult on such a small "canvas"...I prefer stencils and hand painting.

 

My advice is, as you expand and add brushes, learn the good and bad qualities of each and use accordingly. Experimentation is really the best way - as Musky Glenn said - to learn each brush and how it best performs with all the different pigments and pressures. I would, however, recommend experimenting on old white blanks. Paper is flat and porous and doesn't give proper feedback in my opinion.

[gone2long]

I use a piece of scrap PVC pipe for a test piece works well I sprayed one side black and left the other white. As to transparent's they are more refined and thinner just as candies are even a thinner base but standard createx is a different animal altogether each color has its own characteristic that will require some adjusting both with reduction and air pressure as some are synthetic and some are 

 

The other 3 brushes use a 0.1 tip.

 

What brand of brush are you using that has a .1mm neddle/nozzle?

[Arkie]

Paasche internal mix VL series (VLN-1 & VLT-1) with slotted hood are the most used

An old Matco - part # unknown - this tip and needle is probably closer to a 0.2

[bass100]

I never thin paint, either. I do use that Createx stuff that makes the paint more transparent, but, it doesn't thin. Just turn the pressure down (or up) and roll with it.

I am the same way.  I don't thin anything.  I use createx and wildlife colors. 

[RayburnGuy]

My airbrushing skills, or lack thereof, don't allow me to freehand everything so one trick I use when painting details is to use a stencil to spray the initial coat. Once the detail is sufficiently outlined I come back and spray another light coat with thinned Createx. This works best, for me at least, when using air pressure settings as low as 5 psi. To spray at this low pressure requires paint to be thinned to almost the consistency of water. This technique, if it can be called that, is not something you can do in 1 or 2 passes. I'm only spraying a small amount of paint with each pass and by doing it this way you can eliminate the hard edges associated with stencils.

 

You can also get softer edges when using a stencil by holding the stencil away from the bait, but my hands shake so much that it's easier, and produces a better looking detail, if I anchor the hand holding the stencil and then use the above method to follow up.

 

Ben

[gone2long]

Paasche internal mix VL series (VLN-1 & VLT-1) with slotted hood are the most used

An old Matco - part # unknown - this tip and needle is probably closer to a 0.2

Got ya, yeah the VL series smallest size is .55mm and matco is .20mm I haven't found any below .15 and that was for Harder and Steenbeck's Infinity and Evolution.