Suspending Lures Sinking

[stephen snider]

Is there anything to add to a lure to help it float ?My jerkbaits are sinking slow and i need something to help them to suspend.I have done everything i can to make them lighter :  hooks  ,split rings, little paint , epoxy top coat  2 part very lite one coat  .

I didn't know if there was a  foam paint or anything i could glue or add to the lure to help it float  smelly jelly , fly dressing ect. any ideas would be helpfull.

 

 thanks ,  steve snider  

[Vodkaman]

What material did you use. Sounds like you need to lighten up

 

DAve

[RayburnGuy]

Did you build the bait or is it an unpainted lure you bought to paint yourself?

 

Ben

[stephen snider]

I bought 110 lure blanks from predator baits dusted with white base coat one lite coat of pearl white and one lite coat of a and b appoxy   from netcraft  all sprayed with bager airbrush lightest hooks you can find . I have done everything possible to make it light.

 

I also have 2 lucky craft stayse 90 jerkbaits that sink my buddies are fine mine are stock out of the box.

 

Steve

[Cougarftd]

Jim addresses the suspending baits on his website. Predator Bass Baits. The 110 has to weigh 13.9 grams complete (hooks, rings, etc). He sells several versions of this bait based on clear...weight of hooks etc... He is dead on with 13.9 grams that's where mine are to suspend. 2 part epoxies are heavier than you think...you either have to start with a floating version or switch to a lighter clear such as dick Nites or GST. Hope that helps

[Anglinarcher]

Like Cougarftd said. 

 

Keep in mind that it is not as easy as one would like to get a lure to suspend in the first place. 

 

For example, water at sea level requires a slightly different density then water at 6000 feet elevation.  Making a lure that will suspend at both is technically impossible, so most of the time they are made to suspend in lower elevations.

 

Additionally, cold water is more dense then warm water, so a lure may suspend at 40 degrees but sink at 75 degrees F.  Because most of the time people fish suspending lures in colder water, well you get the idea.

 

What about clear water verses muddy water, well again, clear water is normally chosen but they do have different densities.

 

The difference between a slow float, a suspend, and a slow sink is often almost immeasurable.  I prefer the slow floater so I can add split rings or heavier hooks to get the right suspend.  But for fishing, I prefer the slow sinker to the slow floater ---- suspender is best.... LOL

 

Try suspending one of your lures without a clear coat at all.  If it floats, then using a different clear can help.  A proper application of a UV Cure or a brushed on coat of Alumilite Amazing Clear Cast will provide a much lighter clear coat.  Note that I said a proper application of UV Cure - matte finishes or haze results from poor technique.

 

Good luck.

[RayburnGuy]

Depending on how buoyant his floaters are it might be easier to buy a floater and then add suspend dots/strips or wrap the hook shanks with lead wire like that used in fly tying. I don't use unpainted blanks, but have spent a great deal of time experimenting with making baits that suspend and it's not the easiest thing to do. There is an amazingly small amount of difference in a bait that sinks, floats or suspends. As mentioned above there are several factors that make a bait suspend and if all the stars aren't in alignment then the best you're going to do is get a slow sinker or slow floater.

 

Ben

[HAWGFAN]

I've used the suspending version of the vision 110 from Predator with no issues in 50-60 degree water.  I use a thin coat of Etex, 6mm split rings, and #6 9651BN (black nickle, short shank) VMC hooks.  If they sink, it's so slow that I can't tell, and it doesn't cause any issue.

[bass01]

plus 1 on following Jim's procedure on weight get a scale as I found out even similar painted baits can weigh a little different from how much paints on them I just switch out a different hook or split ring.

[mark poulson]

I removed two of the weight transfer BB's, and got mine to suspend with #4 hooks.

[stephen snider]

Thanks Guys for chiming in a apriciate your help .. I just ordered the slow float 110 blanks the other day instead of the new suspending blanks he has . My suspending blanks  are from last year they won't hold as much weight as the new one . I would much rather add weight then have a sinking lure .  My clear coat weighs less than Devcon  2ton and others.I have #5 split rings and bronze triple grip. #5's are a pain (so  small), I have the barbarian outbarbs,( original stock on 110's),  but they were to heavy, hope to use them on the blanks i have coming.

 

Do you guys have any suggestions about stock lures lucky craft ect. I have some of them that sink .

 

Thanks Steve

 

[BobP]

There's a point of diminishing returns if you want to keep your sanity with suspending jerkbaits.  LC Staysees come in 3 versions, slow floating V1, suspending V2, and slow sinking V3.  I catch bass on all versions and the sinking V3 model is becoming a favorite of mine.  That suggests maybe I was getting a little overwrought about suspending jerkbaits.  Unless you pause jerkbaits for very long periods between twitches, I'm not sure it matters that much.

 

BTW, not only do you have to worry about the jerkbait's buoyancy in various water temps, you also have to factor in the type (braid, mono, fluoro) and diameter of line you throw it on as well as whether you connect to the bait with a split ring, clip, etc.  Really the only solution if you want one to suspend is to use a slow floating jerkbait and add weight to it when you get on the water that day.  

[stephen snider]

I have the version 2, mono still sinks. Floro sinks worse. I have some rods flouro some mono  floating slow use floro, sink slow or suspend mono. slow sink seams to  works better below 44 .Like I   said above  he wanted me to buy the suspending but I bought the slow rise ones should have them Friday, so much easier to balance.IF we have a shad kill in the fifties i might try the slow sink,not sure which will work best during a shad kill?

 

Thanks Steve

 

PS I'm going to try smaller split rings on the staysee. 

[stephen snider]

Mark Poulson, 

 

When you removed the  bb's were they the two little ones in the bottom?   How did you plug it up?

This isn't the easiest way, but the best method i've heard so far for reducing weight . Mark thanks for the great suggestion, and everyone else that helped .

 

Steve Snider

[wchilton]

If it's close enough to the right weight you could try cutting one of the points off of a treble hook.  I've had hook points lost while fishing and it doesn't seem to affect action or ability to hook fish very much.

[BobP]

Stephen, Most jerkbait fishermen want a suspending bait to pause with a head-down attitude but one jerkbait mod that works is something I picked up from a guy named Crankenstein who posted it on another site years ago.  He had a big tank filled with bass which he fed with live threadfin shad and he observed how the shad would start to struggle and sink tail-first as they began to die.  As soon as the bass saw that, the shad would immediately be eaten.  So he weighted a Smithwick Suspending Rogue to have the same action.  I tried this mod and it works really well; throw the Dying Shad in, let it sink slowly tail first, lift it slowly so it seems to struggle a little.  This seems almost irresistible to bass and works best in cool water but also in summertime as a finesse presentation.  Shad die for various reasons year-round.  I've had the Dying Shad pull big bass out of lay-down trees and bite 5 ft from the boat, and that made me a believer.  It also made me think that the "bait must always perfectly suspend" rule shouldn't be followed so narrowly.

[stephen snider]

Bob. do you have to use a rogue?  What colors you using shad patterns?

 

 

[mark poulson]

Mark Poulson, 

 

When you removed the  bb's were they the two little ones in the bottom?   How did you plug it up?

This isn't the easiest way, but the best method i've heard so far for reducing weight . Mark thanks for the great suggestion, and everyone else that helped .

 

Steve Snider

 

Steve,

You're right.  It was the small BB's in the belly.  It's been a while, and I forgot what I did, until I took a look at one that's still unpainted.

I drilled a small hole in the belly, just behind the weight transfer race, and removed those little rattle BB's.

I plugged the hole with bondo, and a drop of super glue over that, once it was sanded to shape, to strengthen the bondo and it's attachment to the lure.

Play around with how many you remove.  It's always easier to make a lure heavier than to make it lighter, once it's finished.

[BobP]

I don't think you have to use a Rogue but I wouldn't use a $25 Megabass when a $5 Rogue will do just as well.  You probably also want to avoid jerkbaits that have weight shifting ballasts because that can make the weight distribution unpredictable since you're moving the ballast rearward.  This isn't a presentation where you want long casts to cover lots of water, so shifting ballast isn't really an issue anyway.  I used Gamma brand adhesive lead tennis racquet tape half way between the belly hanger and the tail.  It's thin and you can burnish its edges so that it disappears when you repaint the lure.  I just added tape until the bait would slowly sink backward tail-first in a bucket of water, then repainted in a very simple white shad pattern with light gray back. 

[sonoman]

Stephen the original hooks on the megabass 110's are made by Katsuage, they are outbarb in design but they arent Barbarians, there are several versions of Barbarian outbarbs,some are 4x strength and imo are too heavyy for that type of bait, so if buying barbarians make sure you get the lesser strength , they are lightweight and ridiculous

ly sharp....good luck.

[stephen snider]

Sonoman I wish I knew that before i bought 500 of them I hope mine aren't 4x

I went fishing today bad 2nd day of a cold front  ,tried the tail weighted smithwick no luck.

I'll try again next week probably a bad day to try something new .  Bob how long do you let it sink ( pause) between jerks or pulls?

 

Thanks , Steve

[BobP]

I usually cast it into 2-10 ft of water and let it sink halfway to the bottom before giving it a gentle lift, which causes a little wiggle like a struggling shad.  You almost always get bit on the original drop or during the first lift.  If not, I feel like they're not there.  I've never had luck yo-yo-ing more than once or twice.  It's a quiet finesse presentation so it depends on the fish seeing the bait.    

[mark poulson]

Tie your lure on to a rod whose length you know, let out enough line so that the lure is even with the rod butt when the rod is vertical, then lower the lure to the water's surface.  Drop the rod top to the water's surface, and count by thousands until the line becomes taught again, and you'll know the rate of fall.

[Vodkaman]

Mark - so simple, it is offensive. Why did I never thunk of that

 

Dave

[mark poulson]

Why is it that I'm better at "weighing" lures than weighing fish?  Hahaha