squirrel3495 Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 Sorry in advance if someone has already mentioned this method, but I don't recall it being discussed and I used the search key. When pouring my resin baits, ballasting was always one of the hardest factors to nail down. Plus filling the holes was always a pain. A few years back, I came up with a method that I now use on all my resin baits. I pour two separate resin mixes into the mold. As a rough approximation, I pour the lower 2/3 of the bait with no microballons, thus making it more dense that water. I add microballons to the top 1/3 making it less dense than water. The bait always orients vertically without any added weight, drilling and filling. There is no line between the two different resins in the finished bait. Only a slight color variation. An additional benefit is that the bait ends up weighing less than if I use lead for ballast. sometimes as much as 10% less. A big deal on a 10" bait. I know this is not the greatest explanation, but I hope it might help. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Moreau Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 Hey Squirrel, I have played arounf with this too but my results were less favorable than when i use lead. What MB ratio do you use on the top 1/3? Are your lures sinking or floating? You may have ignighted a curios flame on opening day baseball night...HOW DARE YOU! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 I recall it being suggested before, but I don't remember anyone coming back and saying that it worked. It is a great idea, especially as we now know it is successful. Perhaps you could elaborate on the pouring method; is the pour spout on the back of the lure, I guess it would have to be. The ratio of the mix would be good information too. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel3495 Posted April 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 It's worked very well for me. I didn't want to spend a lot of time on a post if nobody was interested. I'll make a more detailed post tonight after I get the kids to sleep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglinarcher Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 Squirrel, totally works for me as well. Of course not all lures benefit this way. Minnow type lures can often be done this way, but I find that cranks, with a deeper diving lip, often won't work I have also found that I can pour the bottom without microballons and pour the top with alumifoam. You get the same bond, excellent adhesion, a larger balance shift, and less overall weight. Love to hear more of what you have to say Squirrel. Yes Vodkaman, pour hole(s) and air vent holes need to be on the top of the lure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel3495 Posted April 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 Ok here goes. I'll use the bait I just worked on to try to be understandable. I hope. The bait is a 10" 2 peice glide. 2" wide, 4.5" tall. It weighs 283g with two treble hooks and split rings. The bait is poured with smooth cast 300 and I used alumilite microballons. It sinks at approximately 1' in 3 seconds in 62 degree water, but I make it as floater as well just using more microballons on top section. The head section weighs 170g and is poured with 25ml of microballons. The tail weighs 105g and is poured with 15ml of microballons. The reason for diffrent sections was to make the bait sit head up. My thinking was the bait would rise back up to the surface when pulled like a feeding trout. But keeping the ratio the same obviously keeps the bait level. My main concern when I started was would there be a line between the two diffrent resins which would have to be sanded. I can say that after several hundred baits, I have never found a noticable line between the resins. There is a slight color varation so you can tell where each resin set, this has been a good thing though because I have used it to ajust the ratio between the non mb and mb sections based on preformance. Pouring the head section. I mix 180g of resin. 90g of side a, 90g of side b. I don't mix them yet. Then I cut them by .6363 I pour 115g with out mb's. This will be the bottom of the bait. Which is oriented normaly and has 1 pour spout on the back and one vent. I pour the resine in the mold. Then I mix the left over 65g with 25 ml of MB's and pour. Takes about 2-3 min. Which I think lets the first resin start to set and keeps them from mixing. Same with the tail section. 110g of resin. 55 of a, 55 of b. 70g without MB's and pour. Mix 40g with 15ml of MB's pour. I poured this exact bait, with Mb's in all of the resin, I took 27g of ballast to get the same rate of fall. It's a big heavy bait, but cutting over 1oz out and still having the same action and fall, is a plus for me. I've probably made it sound way more complicated that it is. I have to say, when I first started experimenting with this idea, I found it to have a really wide margin of error. As long as I had the more bouyant resin on top, the bait oriented correctly and If I had to I could add ballast to ajust. But it was usually just a split shot or two, nothing close to what I was using before. One of the reasons I tried this was to get away from having to fix ballast holes, I could never get them to match the texture of the rest of the bait. When I would sand, I would always end up exposing bubbles just under the skin of the resin. So another thing I tried and found to work was pouring the bait belly up. This allowed me to pour the section with the MB's first, the pure resin second. I found that the bubbles in the first (with MB's) float up, away from the back of the bait and the second pure (belly) has far less bubbles because of no MB's. I feel this made my castings much better. I've probably made it sound way more complicated that it is. I have to say, when I first started experimenting with this idea I found it to have a really wide margin of error. As long as I had the more bouyant resin on top, the bait oriented correctly and If I had to I could add ballast to ajust. But it was usually just a split shot or two, nothing close to what I was using before. That's about it. Thanks to all TU members for all the knowledge and inspiration. Squirrel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 Great idea and explanation! Thanks for sharing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted April 2, 2014 Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 Fantastic write-up, clear and concise, a most informative article. Anyone wishing to try this method can read over and soak up the details. The belly pour is a smart idea, as there are more bubbles in the thicker mix - I like it. The one thing that put me off trying something like this, was the possible weakness at the interface of the two mixes. You have not mentioned any problems here, and after a few hundred lures, I guess my concerns were unfounded. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyonline Posted April 2, 2014 Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 I've done the same thing with different colours a couple of times, hadn't considered different densities. I like the idea of pouring foaming PU over the top of solid PU - gives the hook hangers something strong to hang onto! http://s456.photobucket.com/user/flyonline_2008/media/P9210001_zps7e8b1978.jpg.html http://s456.photobucket.com/user/flyonline_2008/media/P9270001_zpsb30556f8.jpg.html Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel3495 Posted April 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 Thank you Vodkaman. I never thought about it being weaker. I guess I should add all the baits I've poured with this have been larger than 6 inches. I never thought of it being weaker at the bond, but this could be a problem with smaller baits. If I can find a reject, I'll smash it and see were the fractures are. Anglinarcher, good call with the body types. My mind only processes swimbaits I guess. Thanks for the info on the foam, would have never thought of it. I going to try it, because I freakin hate mixing microballons. This will be a great shortcut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Moreau Posted April 2, 2014 Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 Dave I poured a test yesterday on a big 14inch bait with a lot of mass. You can see the difference in the color like Squirrel said between the 2 mixtures. I wanted to put it through its paces so i did some tests. When I sanded it i could feel the different densities. The botton is rock hard and the top with MB is much easier to sand. That being said I did twist and torque on it to see what would happen and they didnt pop apart. I abused it a bit and nothing! I even cut a joint into it and didnt see any areas of concern. I think they actually bond together and essentially become one. I dont forsee any issues with weakness being a factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted April 2, 2014 Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 Thanks Matt - a solid contribution to the thread (excuse the pun). Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverMan Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 Squirrel, The bait I'm building very similar in size to the one you described. How much roll did this bait have with the two layer approach? RM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdeee Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 (edited) I have been doing the same as Anglinarcher, regular polyurethane on the bottom and foam on top for a cou ple years now . It was my little secret. OH Well secrets out. LOL The only problem with he foam on top is you really need to seal it well or you will get air bubbles that work there way up through the Etex and become impossible to fill once they start, it's cosmetic since there is nothing in the lure to take on water but it is a pain to fix. The bond is stronger that either part it actually melts together since both are polyurethane especially if you pour both one on top of each other within a few minutes of each other. Edited December 21, 2014 by Jdeee 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglinarcher Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 Sorry Jdeee, didn't mean to let the secret out. I do agree about sealing well. The Alumifoam I use is self skinning, but you still have massive holes where you cut the pour spures off, so .... Some secrets remain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdeee Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 You might have to send me a PM on that one LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llokkii Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 Very interesting process. Think I am going to have to try this once I get my microballoons. I'm using a resin called Flux instead of the alumilite resins. Sets up quickly and usually comes out of the mold easily without any mold release. Mold doesn't need to be heated to get a quick cure. An interesting side note about the Flux is that the make states in the instructions that a drop or two of water to the resin while mixing actually will make it more bouyant. I'll be trying that out pretty soon too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted December 21, 2014 Report Share Posted December 21, 2014 llokkii - could not find a web site for the flux, all the solder products got in the way. Do you have a link that I could read, sounds interesting with the water thing. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglinarcher Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 You can also add a couple of drops to Alumilite White to do the same thing, as well as their foams. I don't know why they don't tell you that you can do it. I guess it is the old repeatability thing...... exact drops per same amount of material is tougher to measure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llokkii Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 Vodkaman, here is the link you wanted. http://www.buildfishinglures.com/lure-materials.htmlThe resin is about halfway down the page. And there is definitely enough to pour 30 baits (3 " baits that is.) I've been using the Alumilite casting resins and the Flux casting resins and find I prefer the Flux. Since the water has frozen over where I live, I've not had a chance to get out and compare action on both resins yet. The flux bottles are 8 oz apiece compared to the 16 oz bottles of Alumilite I get so the prices are comparable. The water drop thing is stated right in the instructions they send with the crankbait kit should you opt to go that route. If not and you just get the bottles, I can always copy the instructions and post them here. Just let me know. I actually love the kit they make but am less than enthusiastic about the decals they provide. I opted to buy an airbrush instead. But for the money, that kit is a lot of bang for the buck.Anyway, just wanted to say I've been lurking around here for months and all you guys make some incredible baits. Looking forward to learning a bunch of stuff from you all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llokkii Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 Anglinarcher, you are right. They state as much in those instructions. Did not know that about the alumilite. Gonna have to check that out too. Maybe get a small syringe and keep a log on how much water I add to get it to float really well.Now you guys got me really thinking about this.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 Great link. I watched the video and got all the information - very interesting. A good lure system, very clearly explained and thought out. Yes the decals are basic, but they work and are ideal for anyone just starting out in lure building. Pity he didn't have a swim test on the video, to show the difference in the weighting effects. Great kit and the price looks right to me. Dave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglinarcher Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 I learned about the water drops from watching a Larry Dahlberg fishing show "Hunt for Big Fish". He had one of his workshop sections and he mentioned it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 I am now wondering if this will work with regular fiberglass resin. This could make all the difference. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llokkii Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 I wish I knew more about fiberglass stuff, but just out of curiosity, if you add a few drops of water, wouldn't that make it not set up correctly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
