TerryF2858 Posted May 15, 2014 Report Share Posted May 15, 2014 i scuffed all the old baits and the new ones with 400 sand paper, then sprayed them with opaque white, they have dried since saturday, so today i did the tape test like they use at work to check adhesion, and the paint comes off on the blue painters tape, i thought i had thin enough coats, as i could still see some of the old finish, but on the new blanks i did get good coverage. any ideas what i could have done wrong? i did not heat set them after i finished, i just let them dry until today. if you have any better ideas for the base(primer) coat i would be happy to hear them, as i dont want to have the paint start to peal after i put on the next coats or after i finally get one done. if i have to heat set them that will be fine i just need to know to do it that way. thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky Glenn Posted May 15, 2014 Report Share Posted May 15, 2014 I believe you do need to heat set the paint but I don't think the paint has to pass a tape test. Musky Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrogAddict Posted May 15, 2014 Report Share Posted May 15, 2014 I've never done a tape test. I just cover them with epoxy and all is good. I do heat set though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveG Posted May 15, 2014 Report Share Posted May 15, 2014 As far as I know the heat just speeds up the drying time , Createx should dry without heat if left long enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted May 15, 2014 Report Share Posted May 15, 2014 If the paint is properly heat set it causes a molecular change in the paint. Createx is first and foremost a T-shirt paint so it has to be made waterproof to survive being washed in a washing machine. This is achieved by heat setting. The best thing to do is go to their website and take a look at the technical data sheet. It covers everything you need to know about using Createx paint. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted May 16, 2014 Report Share Posted May 16, 2014 I don't think you can't expect acrylic latex paint to have much adhesion on a crankbait. What keeps the paint on it is the clearcoat. I use a hair dryer to dry acrylic paint but it does not reach the temperature required to melt the latex and become waterproof, so I think letting the paint air dry is probably just as effective (but slower). acrylic paint will stay on the bait unless the topcoat is breached and water is allowed to penetrate the paint layer, which will cause it to expand and push the finish off the bait. Solvent based airbrush paint like lacquer has better adhesion but presents a health hazard. Using water based paint is a compromise most of us hobby builders have accepted. I like Polytranspar Superhide White water based acrylic for color basecoating. It sprays well, has lots of pigment, and dries very quickly to a film that is harder and a little more durable than most other acrylic paints. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveG Posted May 16, 2014 Report Share Posted May 16, 2014 Taken from the Createx website "Createx Airbrush Colors are designed for permanent results with a soft-hand feel on fabrics. Colors cure with the assistance of heat after drying. The use of heat to cure colors is one of the main differences between Createx Airbrush Colors and Wicked & Auto Air Colors which cure to a much stronger film with air drying alone (referred to as self-cross linking). Createx are made with exterior-grade (automotive) pigments allowing them to withstand prolonged exposure to direct, outdoor light without fading. For maximum permanence, a top-coat should be applied over the paint after curing." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryF2858 Posted May 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2014 Thank you all for the help, super hide will be my next try, and an auto primer for plastics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAWGFAN Posted May 16, 2014 Report Share Posted May 16, 2014 Thank you all for the help, super hide will be my next try, and an auto primer for plastics. I don't see the need. Adhesion on a lure isn't really a concern. If you have a durable clear coat, It won't matter. If your paint is coming off during a masking step, heat setting with a hair dryer will help. Another thing that heat setting will help with is "fish eyes" in your clear coat. Many on here have had this issue with epoxy clear coats, myself included. A thorough heat set between layers (even of the same color), and a day to cure before the clear coat step seems to greatly reduce this problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted May 16, 2014 Report Share Posted May 16, 2014 Some guys use an "adhesion promoter", which are sold by several companies including Bulldog. My attitude about adhesion is like HAWGFAN - I don't worry about Createx adhesion since I cover it with a durable topcoat. The paint will stay on there as long as the topcoat is intact. If it isn't, there's nothing that will keep it on the bait for long. The one exception to this I've found is that fresh Dick Nite S81 MCU will actually soak into and through Createx to form a waterproof monolithic finish layer that is both durable and waterproof. Personally, I won't use auto primers because they leave a permanent stink that lasts for years. If you are using painter's tape to mask areas on your baits, I suggest switching to painting templates because they're easier to use, don't lift paint, and can be re-used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gone2long Posted May 16, 2014 Report Share Posted May 16, 2014 I've found that Createx opaque white is very thick even when reduced for the AB so I found that it is imperative to heat set or heat dry each and every layer for best results if not you will get "skinning over" which is recoverable but adds to the adhesion problem and time to move to the next process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdeee Posted May 16, 2014 Report Share Posted May 16, 2014 I've found that Createx opaque white is very thick even when reduced for the AB so I found that it is imperative to heat set or heat dry each and every layer for best results if not you will get "skinning over" which is recoverable but adds to the adhesion problem and time to move to the next process. I have been using Createx white opaque also and I really hate the way it sprays (like wet chalk) and all the hassles to thin it to get it to spray at low PSI. Last week I was at the local Hobby place and they had a liquidation on Spectra Tex paint made by Badger I think. Anyway I picked up the white and shook it and was surprised that it sounded thin like Createx Transparent paints. I bought a bottle and let me tell you that after I did a few baits I ran back to the store and bought up all the white and black they had. This stuff goes on like a dream at crazy low pressures. I will never buy Createx white again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveG Posted May 16, 2014 Report Share Posted May 16, 2014 For a base coat I use Createx 4001 white base coat sealer, I mix it with about 25% reducer and it goes on very well with the added bonus of being sealed when dry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryF2858 Posted May 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 thank you everyone, i have lots of ideas to try now, 1 of them will surely work, first i have to re-sand all the baits and then try again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gone2long Posted May 17, 2014 Report Share Posted May 17, 2014 Yeah Spectra Tex is pretty much ready to shoot but it seemed to not go as far, I started using 5608 Illustration base with opaque white which is a solvent reducer\extender and have had excellent results with less coats to achieve coverage so that's been working well for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordguy_85 Posted May 18, 2014 Report Share Posted May 18, 2014 One thing I've done in the past, and it may not work with your clear/paint, is to spray the bait when finished with Lacquer clear in a can. It seems to bond the paint to the bait fairly well. I have actually fished with baits with one or two light coats of the lacquer and it will chip the paint off, but not really let it all start lifting away. Granted, I never did a real torture test like that, but I have fished with baits that were sprayed the night before a tournament without any issues. Basically, if it doesn't react with your paint ( I use all water based acrylics and BSI epoxy clear ) or clear, it is a little insurance if you chip the clear somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAWGFAN Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 I have been using Createx white opaque also and I really hate the way it sprays (like wet chalk) and all the hassles to thin it to get it to spray at low PSI. Last week I was at the local Hobby place and they had a liquidation on Spectra Tex paint made by Badger I think. Anyway I picked up the white and shook it and was surprised that it sounded thin like Createx Transparent paints. I bought a bottle and let me tell you that after I did a few baits I ran back to the store and bought up all the white and black they had. This stuff goes on like a dream at crazy low pressures. I will never buy Createx white again. Thanks for the info on Spectra Tex. The Createx has always been a pain, at best. I'll try this next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdeee Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 Hawgfan Don't get me wrong, Createx has it's place. I use it almost Daily, but the opaque white,black and red seem to always give me troubles. The Spectra Tex is ready to go like Gon2long says, but I disagree with the part about not going as far. I can use a lot lower pressures thus not blasting out a ton of paint like I do with the Createx. Maybe it's just me but I can never get the mixing right. Give it a try and let me know if you like it. Each painter is different and so is the way they paint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAWGFAN Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 Jdee, I agree about Createx. I'll still use my pearl and transparent colors I'm sure. The Opaque Black and White have always gave me trouble. I've reduced them to the point that they're OK, but they still tip try pretty bad. I do have some issues with the pearls and fluorescents being hard to heat set, but I can live with it. The only Wicked color I've tried is Sepia, and that stuff is amazing. Sprays and drys really nicely. I'll give the Spectra a go, especially for my white base coats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kustom Krankz Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 I use all wicked colors and they work great- the only createx colors I still use are a few transparent ones that I really like that spray fine. people may laugh but most of the time if I have time my base coat comes from a white spray can from wal-mart - only thing is I have found is I like to let them dry overnight- u can base coat 20-30 baits really quick and I have never had a problem with other paints sticking to it- I use the flat white .99 can of spray paint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 Kustom...I do the same thing except I use Krylon..I hate their spray nozzle though..I use to use Rustoleum brand..but you end up with a flat can that is still at least half if not three quarters full of paint...I'll have to give the Walmart brand a try...Nathan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking 56 Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 Nathan, I used to have that problem until I stopped turning the can over and spraying for 5 seconds like they recommend. If that's your issue, check out the graffiti forums. Some say to replace the caps, other use acetone or mineral spirits and to keep your empties to clean out your good caps. Hope this helps. s56 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gone2long Posted May 19, 2014 Report Share Posted May 19, 2014 I used a can of carb cleaner if I remember right and put my nozzles on it after use and sprayed a few seconds and remove wipe down and ready to go next time around, but I have not tried it with fine paint work but I don't see an issue just like an AB a burst off project will clear anything in the nozzle out before laying it down on your work. As far as stretching paint I'm getting 4ozs or more from 2ozs of Createx opaque white reduced with the 5608 base and reduced tip dry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wadeeng Posted May 20, 2014 Report Share Posted May 20, 2014 I keep a mason jar of acetone and quickly dip the lure, and then hang to dry. Don't touch or wipe the lure. I've never had adhesion troubles and it cleans all the impurities from the bait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kustom Krankz Posted May 20, 2014 Report Share Posted May 20, 2014 Nathan- do u use that krylon fusion made for plastic- if you can find it in flat white( its hard to do) it has a ok spray nozzle- and it adheres really well to any bait I have used it on- and wicked stuff sticks to it good also- mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
