Spinnerbait Wire Lengths

[rfdong]

I got two questions similar in nature, regarding spinnerbait and Buzzbait wire lengths. I posted second topic for Buzzbait as to not confuse them.

In regards to spinnerbaits what difference does it make to the bait regarding the distance from the R bend to the head? I notice that different baits from different companies can vary somewhat. Does it make a difference in either in how it runs? Speed at which you can run it? Or simply preference and how compact the bait appears?

Second, what about blade arm? Is there a "standard" length? Ie end of the arm should be even with hook for instance? And does changing length make it run differently?

I bought some pre-bent wires but not sure if they should be used "as is" or cut them as many baits i use have a shorter head to R bend length.

Thanks!

Edited June 1, 2014 by rfdong

[smalljaw]

Years ago I made 102 spinnerbaits and I took them to a shallow, clear water spot to mess around with blade spacing and see what effect different lengths of wire coming out of the head would do to the bait. The first thing is there isn't any industry standard so you can do whatever you like but  I'll share what I know from doing it. I saw that the Manns classic used thin wire with a huge indian blade with a small Colorado kicker blade but it didn't seem to have much more vibration than other baits except you had to reel it slow because it was terribly off balance. I learned that if you use thin diameter wire, you make it stronger by limiting the amount of wire coming out of the head, the short stretch of wire is harder to bend than if it were longer. Now you would think this is a good thing, smaller wire means more vibration, right? Not so fast, it is true that the smaller diameter wire does lead to more vibration but when you confine a lot of the wire inside the spinnerbait body it makes that short section very rigid and it kills the vibration coming down the arm. I found that if I use .032 to .035 wire and leave about 1.5" coming out of the head, I can get great vibration along with a fairly durable bait, then it is a matter of messing with blade types and sizes to achieve what kind of bait I want, burner, slow roller, intermediate runner and if I want more vibration out of a willow leaf blade I can tweak the spacing of the blades but that is another discussion. I spen a lot of time cutting different lengths of wire and using different dimensions to come up with what I think is a really good spinnerbait but I put a lot of time into it and I suggest you take what you learn and try different things out. Get a round nose pliers and a diagonal cutter and tweak the sizes of the pre-bent wire forms and see how it affects your bait. I also stongly suggest you get a wire former, I use a good one that is also inexpensive, it is very good but it doesn't make closed loops so it is limited but it will crank out spinnerbait and buzzbait wire forms fast and easy and it won't break, it is the Little Blue Bender. Write down the lengths of wire you cut and the bends and see what the results are and you may come up with a bait nobody else has, the spacing of blades and wire lengths and diameter make a lot of difference in the performance of a spinnerbait, some baits will like to go fast, other not so much but make great slow rollers, give it a try and see what you come up with and don't worry so much about what the big guys make.

[JBlaze]

Good 

 

Years ago I made 102 spinnerbaits and I took them to a shallow, clear water spot to mess around with blade spacing and see what effect different lengths of wire coming out of the head would do to the bait. The first thing is there isn't any industry standard so you can do whatever you like but  I'll share what I know from doing it. I saw that the Manns classic used thin wire with a huge indian blade with a small Colorado kicker blade but it didn't seem to have much more vibration than other baits except you had to reel it slow because it was terribly off balance. I learned that if you use thin diameter wire, you make it stronger by limiting the amount of wire coming out of the head, the short stretch of wire is harder to bend than if it were longer. Now you would think this is a good thing, smaller wire means more vibration, right? Not so fast, it is true that the smaller diameter wire does lead to more vibration but when you confine a lot of the wire inside the spinnerbait body it makes that short section very rigid and it kills the vibration coming down the arm. I found that if I use .032 to .035 wire and leave about 1.5" coming out of the head, I can get great vibration along with a fairly durable bait, then it is a matter of messing with blade types and sizes to achieve what kind of bait I want, burner, slow roller, intermediate runner and if I want more vibration out of a willow leaf blade I can tweak the spacing of the blades but that is another discussion. I spen a lot of time cutting different lengths of wire and using different dimensions to come up with what I think is a really good spinnerbait but I put a lot of time into it and I suggest you take what you learn and try different things out. Get a round nose pliers and a diagonal cutter and tweak the sizes of the pre-bent wire forms and see how it affects your bait. I also stongly suggest you get a wire former, I use a good one that is also inexpensive, it is very good but it doesn't make closed loops so it is limited but it will crank out spinnerbait and buzzbait wire forms fast and easy and it won't break, it is the Little Blue Bender. Write down the lengths of wire you cut and the bends and see what the results are and you may come up with a bait nobody else has, the spacing of blades and wire lengths and diameter make a lot of difference in the performance of a spinnerbait, some baits will like to go fast, other not so much but make great slow rollers, give it a try and see what you come up with and don't worry so much about what the big guys make.

 

good read and Great advice. x2

Edited June 4, 2014 by JBlaze

[rfdong]

Thanks, some great info. I only refer to other mftr as a starting point. Not sure I am ever gonna get to the 102 different baits but you give me some great starting points. Any general tips about blade spacing? I really am going to stay with willow and Indiana blades to start.

Again, thanks! Keep it coming! :-)

Edited June 6, 2014 by rfdong

[flippinfool]

Thanks, some great info. I only refer to other mftr as a starting point. Not sure I am ever gonna get to the 102 different baits but you give me some great starting points. Any general tips about blade spacing? I really am going to stay with willow and Indiana blades to start.

Again, thanks! Keep it coming! :-)

 

I always buy the largest frame R-bend. I custom cut for size for every single size and style I make. Once I have It balanced out, I put the sample in a ziplock bag with all the info on it. 

Type of bait, weight, wire size, hook size, and color code. For that mold I will put a colored mark inside the mold to get the hook and wire in the same place to keep them consistant. I use 0.35 for 1/2 oz and under and 0.40 for 1/2 oz and up.

Edited June 6, 2014 by flippinfool

[smalljaw]

Thanks, some great info. I only refer to other mftr as a starting point. Not sure I am ever gonna get to the 102 different baits but you give me some great starting points. Any general tips about blade spacing? I really am going to stay with willow and Indiana blades to start.

Again, thanks! Keep it coming! :-)

 

Blade spacing to me, is the "meat and potatoes" of making a spinnerbait. I use it to allow baits to achieve certain properties, for example, a double willow leaf bait is made for flash but you can also get more vibration out of it by shortening the space between the top and bottom blades. When the blades spin they create torque on the wire shaft, when you move the blades close together it puts more torque on a smaller portion of the wire so instead of having the torque distributed along the entire wire shaft, you end up concentrating it on a smaller spot and because of that you'll get more vibration out of the bait. The downside to that is the bait will not be able to move as fast because it will end up listing to one side because of all the torque, the same deal happens when you use larger blades, it displaces a lot of water and makes vibration but you have to reel slower or it will lay over on its side. When I use Indiana blades it is always tandem with a small Colorado kicker blade under it to balance it out because I find that while they have more flash than a Colorado, they have only slightly more vibration so to compensate I use oversize Indiana blades on the top and then I use a normal spacing for a small Colorado and it helps balance it out that I can retrieve the bait at a decent pace with a decent amount of vibration and flash. I build specific spinnerbaits for moving water and still water, for burning and slow rolling and everywhere in between and what you achieve with the blades and wire and head size is a balancing act, everything has to work together for the bait to do what you want it to. The Manns Classic is an example of unbalanced but that can be good for what it was designed to do and that is being reeled in slow with a 5.1:1 gear ratio reel, it is hard to use that bait with todays high speed reels. The classic is made with a small diameter wire but the strengthen it by leaving on a small portion coming out of the head as a line tie, then the wire has a very long blade arm to which a #7 Indiana blade is attached with a #3 Coloarado, the bait makes a ton of vibration and moves water, excellent for slow rolling in stained water, in clear water it isn't a very good bait because it can't move fast enough without rolling over but it wasn't made to do that. As I said, these are basics but you can do a lot with it if you are willing to experiment. Good luck.

[rfdong]

Thanks guys! Some really great info

[Musky Glenn]

One small thing that always bothered me with spinner baits is the profile they create in the water. The line tie to blade is usually the line of most resistance which makes this side run in  a straight line with the line going back to the reel. That leaves the line tie to head side to hang down under neath. You see it all the time in spinner bait adds. The bait is coming through the water and the hook is pointed straight down with the hook sticking down below the skirt which is running level. I like to bend the wire where it exits the head so the head is running level and the hook is hidden in the skirt.

The longer the length from head to R bend, the more leverage the head has to stay under the blade side and not rotate around the the blade side. Why does anyone use R bends instead of twisted eyes?  I hate the R bend types. Musky Glenn

[smalljaw]

One small thing that always bothered me with spinner baits is the profile they create in the water. The line tie to blade is usually the line of most resistance which makes this side run in  a straight line with the line going back to the reel. That leaves the line tie to head side to hang down under neath. You see it all the time in spinner bait adds. The bait is coming through the water and the hook is pointed straight down with the hook sticking down below the skirt which is running level. I like to bend the wire where it exits the head so the head is running level and the hook is hidden in the skirt.

The longer the length from head to R bend, the more leverage the head has to stay under the blade side and not rotate around the the blade side. Why does anyone use R bends instead of twisted eyes?  I hate the R bend types. Musky Glenn

 

Ask anyone who uses a closed loop spinnerbait as a target bait throwing to cover and ripping through weeds and you'll find very similar answers with a lot of them being about break offs. When you make a roll cast with the spinnerbait in wind the blades catch the wind and the bait has a tendency to hit the water with the hook facing the angler, it happens a lot. When you have that hppen, the closed loop will catch the line and if it is braid it will create a frayed spot which will break on a hard hook set, and if you use mono or fluorocarbon you will end up with a kink or straight break off. I tie direct and tying direct is a no no for closed loop spinnerbaits, most anglers that like them tend to be ones that use snaps or leaders like musky fishermen.

[Musky Glenn]

Smalljaw you must be fishing out of the back of my boat, I always use snaps or steel leaders with snaps. Thanks for pointing that out for me. Musky Glenn

[Tony Maxwell]

:?I changed to R bends many years ago believing that I get more vibration. Seems to work for me.