robalo01 Posted July 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 I have been doing some tests dipping dowels under various conditions. So far what I like best is semi-rough sanding acrylic sealer sand with fine sandpaper light d2t coat dip in enamel paint with acrylics double dip in mcu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saltshaker Posted July 4, 2014 Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 Nathan, I dip it mostly, but, have brushed quite a bit, too. Really no need to spray this stuff since it's so easy to dip. I talked with the rep this AM and he told me that if you open the container every day....it will form a "skin" within 3-4 months. He said this will vary with temperature and humidity. I keep my jars in a room that is 73-75 degrees 24/7. Maybe this is the reason I don't have any storage issues. But, I don't open the jar every day, either. The stuff is soooo easy to use and works great with glitter. I brush on the glitter, then, dip it twice afterwards. I usually only put glitter on the back of the lure. The rep also told me that, in the event that the KBS did start to thicken with age.....it can be thinned by "20%" and it's good to go. They recommend only one thinner for the KBS. They call it "No. 1". I bought a quart when I first started using KBS and am still using it. I've prolly ordered the clear about 4-5 times. A great product............just my .02. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty's Posted July 4, 2014 Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 kbs is anti graffiti paint repackaged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted July 4, 2014 Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 The website says it remains flexible, so it should work on wood lures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted July 4, 2014 Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 I have a love-hate relationship with MCU's. Love their performance, high gloss, and thin "factory-like" film; hate the storage issues. KBS and Dick Nite S81 prices are just about equal. I've tried less expensive Garco and Famowood MCU (which you can often find on sale a half the price) and didn't like the higher viscosity and the speed at which they began to harden in the container. When I try MCU again, I'll definitely try the "tap the can" method of storage but that will also mean brushing it on instead of dipping it, which is a minus. I'm using D2T and Solarez right now. D2T still makes for a great finish and though it's a little fussy to use, it's second nature after hundreds of crankbaits. Solarez is dead simple and super fast but you have to accept the low gloss, which I don't like. I have no intention of buffing off the wax exterior layer to get to the higher gloss resin underneath. I doubt the fish care either way but it's not the way I want my crankbaits to look when finished. I do like Solarez as an undercoating though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted July 4, 2014 Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 I have a love-hate relationship with MCU's. Love their performance, high gloss, and thin "factory-like" film; hate the storage issues. KBS and Dick Nite S81 prices are just about equal. I've tried less expensive Garco and Famowood MCU (which you can often find on sale a half the price) and didn't like the higher viscosity and the speed at which they began to harden in the container. When I try MCU again, I'll definitely try the "tap the can" method of storage but that will also mean brushing it on instead of dipping it, which is a minus. I'm using D2T and Solarez right now. D2T still makes for a great finish and though it's a little fussy to use, it's second nature after hundreds of crankbaits. Solarez is dead simple and super fast but you have to accept the low gloss, which I don't like. I have no intention of buffing off the wax exterior layer to get to the higher gloss resin underneath. I doubt the fish care either way but it's not the way I want my crankbaits to look when finished. I do like Solarez as an undercoating though. Brushing DN is what I tried to stay away from as well Bob. After trying a multitude of top coats I ended back up with brushing DN. Before going back to DN I was brushing BS 30 minute epoxy and did so for quite a while. It finally dawned on me that brushing an epoxy top coat wasn't much different than brushing DN. You have a much longer working time brushing DN than when your brushing epoxy which is a major plus and you don't have to worry as much about bubbles as you do with epoxy. I think once you make up your mind to use the "tap the can" method and start brushing DN you won't even look back. I've been "tapping the can" on a quart of DN since the first of the year and so far it seems as fresh as when I bought it. Losing product to storage issues is what turned me off to DN in the first place and "tapping the can" seems to have solved that problem. Knowing that I'm going to be able to use the entire contents makes paying over $50 a quart much easier to swallow. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robalo01 Posted July 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 First, when you say "tap the can", do you mean to extract a small amount into a second container so as not to open the first one as often? second, are there any mcu out there to stay away from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted July 4, 2014 Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 Since air has to pass back into the can as the MCU is removed, or it won't flow at all, have you tried tapping both top and the bottom, and putting bloxygen into the top as the MCU is removed from the bottom? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robalo01 Posted July 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 With the MCU, do you dip and turn? or just dip ans drip? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted July 4, 2014 Report Share Posted July 4, 2014 If you tap the base of a can of MCU, I assume it dribbles out and air enters as the MCU comes out. Would a hole in the top hurt or help? It would certainly flow out more easily but don't know if it would make much difference to the DN. Could you also spray Bloxygen into the top hole? Yes, but I'm hearing it's not necessary from the guys who are already using the tap the can method. And the Bloxygen is an extra expense, of course. robalo01, I first tried dipping in DN and putting the lures on a lure turner. Bad idea because the DN skins over quickly and the rotation causes still liquid DN to collect in one area of the bait under the skin, causing the paint to wrinkle and bubble. I switched to dipping the baits and simply hanging them up so the excess DN would drip off the tail. Never had a wrinkle or bubble after that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted July 5, 2014 Report Share Posted July 5, 2014 (edited) Here's the way I "tap the can". I first turn the can upside down and poke a small hole in the side at what is now the top. (remember the can is upside down) I then thread a sheet metal screw into the hole. You want a hole just large enough that the first threads of the sheet metal screw will grab the wall of the can and pull itself into the can. I then back the screw out and shoot a little Bloxygen into the can since I have some left over from when I first used DN. The screw is then threaded back into the hole to seal it. The can is then turned back over so it is right side up. Then another hole is prepared in the top just as the one in the side at the bottom was. A screw is then threaded into that hole and hand tightened to a snug fit. If you tighten the screws too hard the hole will strip out in thin wall if the can leaving you with a "valve" that probably won't seal. The screw in the bottom of the can has a slot ground lengthwise into it just far enough so that when the screw is backed out the DN will flow easier. The top screw is left as is. When I get ready to dispense DN into a cup for brushing I backed the top screw all the way out and then back the bottom screw out just far enough so that the DN starts to flow. If you back the bottom screw all the way out you will end up with a mess, as well as wasted product. before you can get the screw threaded back into the hole. I've only added the one shot of Bloxygen when the can is first trapped. I keep the can upright at all times and handle it in such a way that the DN is not sloshed around inside the can. I've been using the same can for several months now and have had no problems with the DN trying to start curing inside the can and it seems as fresh as when I first started using it. When you initially thread the screw into the side some seepage will occur, but it will eventually thicken and stop any leaking. Personally I use self tapping sheet metal screws like those used to fasten sheets on metal buildings. At first you will notice a few small, black flecks when you dispense the DN into a cup for brushing onto baits. This is the rubber gasket dissolving, but as soon as the DN coats the gasket this will stop. This is not a big problem for me as the small, black flecks will sink to the bottom of your cup and since they are few in number they can easily be avoided. I believe that covers everything you need to know about how I "tap the can". If I've left anything out, or more explanation is needed, just holler back and I will try to help with any questions you may have. Ben p.s. Somewhere in one of the posts about "tapping the can" I posted a picture showing where the screws go and how I reinforced the bottom tap with a small piece of Lexan and some epoxy. You might try doing a search for it as I think I deleted the pic from my computer. If I still have the picture I will add it to this post later. Edited July 5, 2014 by RayburnGuy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krash7172 Posted July 5, 2014 Report Share Posted July 5, 2014 Ray, My last effort included a few layers of cardboard like what you would find on the back of a notepad in place of your Lexan. I used wire ties around the can to hold in place. It absorbed a little bit of MCU and made a nice seal. I also use 2 screws on opposite sides of the lid. One hole lets the Bloxygen in and the other lets the air out. I put a few drops around each top screw to ensure a seal. Remove the top screws, then the bottom to dispense, replace the bottom screw, Bloxygen in one top hole for several seconds, replace both top screws, done. MCU storage is critical but not difficult. Just remember that whatever you removed from the can has a shelf life which is why I recommend doing batches with MCU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saltshaker Posted July 5, 2014 Report Share Posted July 5, 2014 When I first get a quart of KBS, I empty the can into half-pint jars. Make sure to fill the jars all the way because the less void you have...the less room for air. I use the small jars because they are still plenty deep enough to dip cranks and, for jerkbaits and topwaters, I dip head first then hang from the tail and dip the rest. Works like a charm and my stuff lasts much longer. I don't see that tapping the can will get any more use for me. I normally use it up before it starts to get stiff. Ordering KBS is nowhere near the nightmare that DN used to be. Shipping usually takes 2-3 days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted July 5, 2014 Report Share Posted July 5, 2014 Once again, you guys are way ahead of me! I feel like that polar bear cub who followed the wrong family for miles because they all look the same from behind! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted July 5, 2014 Report Share Posted July 5, 2014 (edited) Krash I only add Bloxygen once and that is at the time of the initial tapping. My reasoning behind this is that once you have a blanket covering the DN there is no need to add more. I was also concerned that any additional spraying of Bloxygen could possibly cause enough turbulence to introduce air into the product. Here's my reasoning behind this opinion. Imagine a sheet of printer paper laying on top of a desk. The amount of paper touching the desk is equal to the surface area of that sheet of paper. Now lets add 100 more sheets of paper stacked on top of the original sheet. The amount of surface area actually touching the desk remains the same. I personally didn't see the added advantage of using more Bloxygen and also didn't want to pay the additional costs in adding Bloxygen every time I used the DN. If what your doing is working for you then by all means continue to do so. There are many ways to skin the same cat and I don't claim mine is any better than anyone else. @Mark......I'm sure you've heard the old saying that if your not the lead dog the scenery never changes. Pretty sure the same is true of polar bears. Ben Edited July 5, 2014 by RayburnGuy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted July 6, 2014 Report Share Posted July 6, 2014 Hahaha!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Posted July 7, 2014 Report Share Posted July 7, 2014 Thank you for the info Saltshaker...Nathan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CustomBaits4You Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 I will share what I use, I have been recently using Minwax Fast Drying Polyurthane. I dip it once and hang it. It works great. Needs 2 coats plus tho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 If we could only find a way to make 4140 tool steel invisible and neutrally buoyant we could armor plate our baits. Ben 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 If we could only find a way to make 4140 tool steel invisible and neutrally buoyant we could armor plate our baits. Ben But then we'd have to deal with the whole rust issue.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 But then we'd have to deal with the whole rust issue.... Just coat it with D2T.....no wait.............that was the original problem. No wonder lure building is driving me nuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thogan6 Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 I use Dura tuff by Famowood u have to keep in the freezer take it out after about an hour u can dip stuff is great its softer than epoxy but stands up to hook marks and fish catches!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
