Screw Eyes

[godzilla]

hi, new to making baits! im looking for bigger guage screw eyes. cant seem to find any retail store that sells them..i have the 0.092" from lurepartsonline but i want something bigger. will be using it for the joints and line tie. i can use the 0.092" for the hooks. my bait is made out of wood..any help would be appreciated..thanks!

[robalo01]

Godzilla,

 

Most of the guys here who make large wood baits don't use screw eyes. They either run wire all the way through the bait (called "through-wire construction") or the cut 2-4 inches of SS wire, bend it in half, twist it leaving a loop and glue it in hole in place of a screw eye. These methods are both stronger and less expensive than screw eyes.

 

I believe Janns Netcraft carries larger SS Screw eyes.

 

Stephen

[mark poulson]

If you get .092 eyes that are 1 3/4" long, I doubt you'll be able to pull them out of the bait before the wood fails.

[Nathan]

I Really don't know why you would need anything bigger than .092 SS...that is some tough stuff...I'm with Mark...The bait would fail before the eye screws would....Nathan

[Jdeee]

I would like to know also if there is a supplier/manufacturer who sells a larger diameter eye, it can be .92 SS wire? I find once a bait gets over 8" this size of eye that everyone sells starts to look small and funny.

I am more than willing to buy 1000 plus pieces.

Up to now I have been making my own hook hangers, but it takes a lot of time to shape and install, so I have moved to epoxied in eye screws and have tested them without failure and I like the ease of installation and the ability to tune the lure without cracking the seal down inside the lure

[woodieb8]

commercialy 0.92 is the largest for stainless screw eyes..

unless you buy stainless rod thread and bend your own.

[Matt Moreau]

You can always buy non SS large diameter screw eyes. I dont because they rust but i have some old timers that want me to build baits with non SS just for that reason. They claim once they start rusting they make a much better noise that attracks fish. I can attest they do make a lot more noise and sqeaking though!

[mark poulson]

One of the things that using sst bicycle spokes for hinge axles with sst .092 screw eyes does is produce a squeak.

Edited June 30, 2014 by mark poulson

[godzilla]

I'm sure the 0.092 will hold but like one mention above it looks kinda small for the bait...I'm making a rat so im also looking for something that will make loud noise. I like how the screw eyes on my deep crank slammer makes a loud sound but im not sure what mike Shaw uses..I found some at orchard supply hardware store but are not stainless steel. Ill give that a try to see how it goes but the thing is they are like an inch deep into the bait. Do u guys think it'll hold if I also super glue it inside? Or should I use epoxy?

[godzilla]

Thanks for the helps btw..I will take those advices into consideration as well!

[mark poulson]

I'm sure the 0.092 will hold but like one mention above it looks kinda small for the bait...I'm making a rat so im also looking for something that will make loud noise. I like how the screw eyes on my deep crank slammer makes a loud sound but im not sure what mike Shaw uses..I found some at orchard supply hardware store but are not stainless steel. Ill give that a try to see how it goes but the thing is they are like an inch deep into the bait. Do u guys think it'll hold if I also super glue it inside? Or should I use epoxy?

 

The strength of the wood you're using should probably dictate how much you need to worry about pull out.

Balsa is weak so it is a big issue.  Pine is a little stronger, poplar is strong, douglas fir is strong, and PVC is strong.  I drill pilot holes in all of these materials before I run the eyes in, to prevent splitting.

I would run the screw eyes in and then back out again, to cut the threads into the wood, and then coat them with brush on super glue and run them back in again.  To me, that stands the best chance of the super glue strengthening the wood threads.  

For added strength, you could also use a fine wire, once the eyes have been run back out, to put some regular super glue all the way into the hole, so it soaks into the wood down deep, and then run them back in coated with the brush on glue.

If you are really concerned do some tests with pieces of the wood you use for building, and see how the eyes hold in it before you use them on your lures.

Edited July 1, 2014 by mark poulson

[Toadman]

HAGENSFISH.COM sells 1-7/16" - .;092" SS screw eyes for around $.22 each.  They also have about everything else you will need for any type of lure making.  

 

https://hagensfish.com/

[eastman03]

I hate to always be the wet blanket when it comes to screw wire vs thru wire, but in my opinion, if you are making a premium lure for muskies or pike, it should always be thru wire.   Screw eyes are plenty strong when new, but after fishing with a lure for a year or two, almost no amount of finish will be able to withstand rocks and fish.  If there is any moisture ingress or if the threads 'crack' loose from the glue that's holding the screw, it can pull out.  Sorry, it just bugs me seeing musky lures that go for 100+$  dollars, and they have screw in hardware.   

This is the result.  A lost lure and possibly a dead fish.  This was from a big pike that crushed the lure boat side.  Set the hook and out came the large screw eye.  Hopefully the fish chucked the lure.  This is from a 'well made' well known lure manufacturer (I won't name names or anything).  This is the second time that it has happened to me, so I can only imagine with all the people fishing, how many times this may happen.  This would not happen with thru wire.  I'm tough on equipment,  I fish a lot, and if there is a weakness, musky fishermen tend to find it.   I'm headed out this weekend, freezing temps, and lakes icing up to go bash some other lures around on the Canadian shield hoping for another hog. 

[JD_mudbug]

I agree with the others (and Engineered Angler) that wire through is best, especially for musky/pike. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIEhsMILC08

If you do use screw eyes on big baits, I would also drill slight cup on the bait body after pre-drilling the thread. That way the screw eye gets countersunk a bit and the opening in the eye gets covered with epoxy.

 

You could try Hillman screw eyes from the big box stores. They come in stainless and zinc plated. Sizes 212 to 206 will fit big baits. They don't have as long a thread as the LPO screws. But, the bigger diameter and deeper grooves in the thread provide a lot of holding power. You want the thread to go in a minimum of a half inch. Maybe try a strength test on those like Zimmtex's video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkTQanwhnU0

You could also try gate hardware screw eyes. In the big box stores, gate hardware comes in a package with one screw eye and a second screw eye with a long latch hook attached. My small local hardware store has the screws and latches separated in pull out boxes on a rack so you can just buys the screws individually. The gate hardware screws come in sizes similar to size 212 to 206 screw eyes (and larger sizes) but the gate screws have a slightly longer thread. My local store has some of these in stainless. Some boating stores have them in stainless too. I pick through the boxes to find the ones with the longest threads as the length seems to vary from screw to screw.  I have several of Mike Shaw's Slammers and it looks like he uses gate hardware screws. 
 

 

 

 

[Big Epp]

@eastman03 Apparently you set the hook like a man-beast!  That's one difference between heavy-duty fishing and some of the light-duty stuff.  A muskie has a much stiffer face than a bluegill.  I had a buddy who was a strict bass angler, and he set the hook in a way that would literally rip the lips off a crappie.  I hope you connect with a big one, and I'm envious of your far-north waters!

In terms of the topic at hand, I make primarily smaller baits (around 3" ) geared towards bass and panfish, though I've done some bigger stuff, but still geared towards bass.  For most of my bass-sized baits I use twist wires in .032" or .051".  I also sometimes use .062" for larger joints (especially if there's only one wire connection in the joint).  The .062" stuff is pretty hard to bend, and requires a little more muscle.  I've only been doing this for a couple years, so I don't have any long-term data, but one of my poppers in particular has caught over 30 bass and is still going strong.

For smaller baits (around 1") I prefer to use a through-wire, as the bait itself is more delicate and more likely to break if surprised by a fish larger than a bluegill or crappie.

This summer I caught 3 largemouth bass over 20" on baits I made, with twist wires, and they held up just fine.

That being said, if I ever shelled out $100 for a bait of any sort (which will never happen, as I make my own baits largely to avoid such expenses) and it broke like that, I would probably cry.  

[ravenlures]

Try McMaster Carr just check it out.

Wayne

[Mad ox tackle]

On 10/22/2020 at 4:14 PM, eastman03 said:

I hate to always be the wet blanket when it comes to screw wire vs thru wire, but in my opinion, if you are making a premium lure for muskies or pike, it should always be thru wire.   Screw eyes are plenty strong when new, but after fishing with a lure for a year or two, almost no amount of finish will be able to withstand rocks and fish.  If there is any moisture ingress or if the threads 'crack' loose from the glue that's holding the screw, it can pull out.  Sorry, it just bugs me seeing musky lures that go for 100+$  dollars, and they have screw in hardware.   

This is the result.  A lost lure and possibly a dead fish.  This was from a big pike that crushed the lure boat side.  Set the hook and out came the large screw eye.  Hopefully the fish chucked the lure.  This is from a 'well made' well known lure manufacturer (I won't name names or anything).  This is the second time that it has happened to me, so I can only imagine with all the people fishing, how many times this may happen.  This would not happen with thru wire.  I'm tough on equipment,  I fish a lot, and if there is a weakness, musky fishermen tend to find it.   I'm headed out this weekend, freezing temps, and lakes icing up to go bash some other lures around on the Canadian shield hoping for another hog. 

Was this a wooden bait or a cast resin bait?

[eastman03]

Both of the baits I have had this happen to were wooden baits.  I have had plastic baits like a Jake also break.  That one seemed like it was never even built right.  Some of the popular mass produced baits seem to have some manufactured defects so that would be a bit different.

[bigblue2]

2 hours ago, eastman03 said:

Both of the baits I have had this happen to were wooden baits.  I have had plastic baits like a Jake also break.  That one seemed like it was never even built right.  Some of the popular mass produced baits seem to have some manufactured defects so that would be a bit different.

how about using jb weld steel reinforced epoxy will  that hold for lighter lure blanks?      

[RPM]

Not trying to start a debate just offering a few tips that were passed on to me. My neighbor used to build some Musky, Pike and a few saltwater plugs told me he always epoxied his hook hangers into hardwood dowel, then epoxies the dowels into his baits, he once said he never wanted the hanger or lure to fail before the line. We used his theory on some baits and if done this way the line is always the weakest link. I build bass baits so line for sure is the weak link and it doesn't take much to strengthen your line ties, belly weights and wood dowels in the tails never fail if good strong bonding epoxy is used. I've used my lures to pickup incredible amounts of weight before 20lb line failed, almost to the point of line, rod breaking before the bait.

Edited December 9, 2020 by RPM

[Vodkaman]

I use barrel twisted eyes in my small cranks. I catch Bawal 7Lb - 12Lb regularly. These deep bodied fish can really pull. Never had a failure. Actually, even these twisted eyes are linked to the hook hanger, so I suppose you could call it a through wire.

BUT, I cannot imagine trying to wrestle with an angry 40Lb Musky with all its leverage. Why would anyone take the risk of losing such a stunning fish, not to mention the damage to the fish as mentioned above.

The dowel idea is good, it is a surface area thing.

Dave

[eastman03]

I have heard and used lures with all those methods of installing hook hangers.  The only one I really trust is wire thru.  It isn't a question of how strong it is brand new, it is the question of time.  We change our fishing line so it maintains the 20lb rating? We change split rings? We change hooks?  We sharpen hooks?.  We can't do the same with a lure hook hanger.  When musky fishing, you may go an entire season before having the briefest encounter with a 40lb fish if you are lucky enough, and when you set the hook and all you feel is a expensive lure fly back at you it makes you question your life choices lol.  

Think of musky fishing more like sitting there and waiting for a month for a big giant buck.  What weapon would you chose?  To the casual hunter who wants shoot the first available deer and fill the freezer, it probably doesn't matter too much.  You will have ample opportunity to get another one.  But to get a musky of a lifetime, like a giant buck, you may never have a second chance.  So you stack all the odds in your favor to never let that chance go to waste.  To me, using a lure that I've had for a while, that has screw in eyes, is all part of those odds.  And as you can see, I've played that game and lost.    To anyone who has never been obsessed with musky fishing, it is a different game.  

Re-reading this I don't mean to be preachy lol.  I just really really like musky fishing.  And got into lure making after having 100$ lures screw eyes come out, or lips get loose etc..  it's like buying a corvette with crank windows.  Screw eyes have no play IMO in high end quality musky lures. 

Edited December 10, 2020 by eastman03

[exx1976]

8 hours ago, eastman03 said:

I have heard and used lures with all those methods of installing hook hangers.  The only one I really trust is wire thru.  It isn't a question of how strong it is brand new, it is the question of time.  We change our fishing line so it maintains the 20lb rating? We change split rings? We change hooks?  We sharpen hooks?.  We can't do the same with a lure hook hanger.  When musky fishing, you may go an entire season before having the briefest encounter with a 40lb fish if you are lucky enough, and when you set the hook and all you feel is a expensive lure fly back at you it makes you question your life choices lol.  

Think of musky fishing more like sitting there and waiting for a month for a big giant buck.  What weapon would you chose?  To the casual hunter who wants shoot the first available deer and fill the freezer, it probably doesn't matter too much.  You will have ample opportunity to get another one.  But to get a musky of a lifetime, like a giant buck, you may never have a second chance.  So you stack all the odds in your favor to never let that chance go to waste.  To me, using a lure that I've had for a while, that has screw in eyes, is all part of those odds.  And as you can see, I've played that game and lost.    To anyone who has never been obsessed with musky fishing, it is a different game.  

Re-reading this I don't mean to be preachy lol.  I just really really like musky fishing.  And got into lure making after having 100$ lures screw eyes come out, or lips get loose etc..  it's like buying a corvette with crank windows.  Screw eyes have no play IMO in high end quality musky lures. 

While I can certainly understand and respect that argument and your point of view on the topic - especially given personal experiences (and that gut-wrenching photo!  Ouch!!)  - were you the one who made the lures that the screw eyes came out of, or were they lures you purchased?  Do you know if they were made properly?  How old were the lures when they failed?  Were there other signs of damage to the lure - something that perhaps the user should have seen (epoxy failure, cracking, etc), that would otherwise have been a sign of "it's time to retire this lure" if not for the emotional and/or financial investment made in said lure that was working counter to logic?

I've seen several videos in which rather small screw eyes were tested (like those used for bass-sized lures), and when properly epoxied and secured into the wooden body, the failure strength is well in excess of 100 pounds.  

 

Give this a watch.  Quite interesting.  The fact of the matter is that when considering the rod, reel line, and lure as a "system", the whole thing is only as strong as the weakest link.  If you're using 85# braid, and the hook eye holds to 140+ pounds, the hook eye is not the weakest link.

Certainly not trying to sway anyone's decision to build things one way or the other, just pointing out some additional information for consideration.

[Vodkaman]

The weakest part of the screw eye assembly is the shear strength of the wood. So, the longer the screw, the more surface area there is. This is why the dowel thing works.

I was expecting the CA glue to do better, using the argument that it would soak into the wood more, but you cannot argue with that demonstration.

I did similar pull tests years ago. I hung a 40Lb bucket of water on my lure from a door frame for 24 hours. I was happy with this test. If I was to do it again, I would probably experiment with some kind of drop test with a smaller weight and adjust the drop height. dropping 20Ltr of water makes quite a mess.

Great video.

Dave

[Big Epp]

Well, safe to say if/when I make some muskie baits I'll be using epoxy (or @eastman03 just do a through wire)!