pux Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 Hello, guys! Searched but didn't found the answer . Balsa, propionate sealer, acrylic paints sealed with propionate after each layer/color. And 30 min Devcon as topcoat. Perfect visual results, amazing hardness ... but cracks when meet rocks or stones . I'm wondering is there some trick to avoid or minimize this effect? Thinking to switch to 30 min BSI - could this help? Thanks in advance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benton B Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 If you smack a rock or something hard on the cast then every clear coat is going to crack. There is nothing out there that can with stand a direct hit on a rock. I use flex coat products for sealer and clear coat, these are a bit softer than devcon but still crank with a direct hit on a rock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 Solarez doesn't crack, but it chips, so you have to do repairs to it as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 Etex stays somewhat flexible and would withstand cracking better than the epoxies which are designed for gluing things together. From what I've read here at TU that's why some guys who build baits for muskies use Etex instead of the harder epoxies. Depending on the conditions you encounter when fishing harder doesn't necessarily mean better. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j27 Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 Had the same problem when I tried using propionate to seal my baits. Would crack down the sides starting where the lip slot is. Stopped using propionate and never seen those kind cracks again. Ive stayed with the slow epoxies like etex and d2t for balsa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhersh Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 pux! Thank's for the post and to the guy's for the responses. It helped me to a question that I didn't even know I had. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrybait Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 I'm just making my first bait with balsa. A super spook type bait. I sealed it with the penetrating epoxy and now used d2t to epoxy in the line tie and hangars and made a complete coat of d2t so that I can test them but on my balsa ones ( I also did basswood ) I can feel some give to the bait when I squeeze it between my fingers especially on some sides depending on the wood grain. That has me a little concerned but the balsa ones are much lighter so I am planning on several layers of d2t to strengthen. I also have solarez could use that on final coat if you members think it would be tougher. Thanks for the post, timely on my current lure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 I'm just making my first bait with balsa. A super spook type bait. I sealed it with the penetrating epoxy and now used d2t to epoxy in the line tie and hangars and made a complete coat of d2t so that I can test them but on my balsa ones ( I also did basswood ) I can feel some give to the bait when I squeeze it between my fingers especially on some sides depending on the wood grain. That has me a little concerned but the balsa ones are much lighter so I am planning on several layers of d2t to strengthen. I also have solarez could use that on final coat if you members think it would be tougher. Thanks for the post, timely on my current lure. Try applying a coat of runny super glue to the wood before sealing it with epoxy. The thin super glue seems to soak into the wood a bit and give you a hard shell on the balsa. This will strengthen the wood and weigh less that multiple coats of epoxy. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benton B Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 Super glue will make those soft balsa baits have a very hard outer shell. That give you are feeling will cause the epoxy to crack. My process is to seal with super glue first and then use a coat of epoxy to for a 2nd sealer, also gives a smooth surface to paint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 I don't see the need for coats of propionate between each color on the bait. I've used prop as an undercoating on balsa baits (6-8 dips) and it works very well, but I never dip prop between colors. In general, the thicker the finish, especially if the finish layers are different coatings, the more easily it is damaged. I sometimes use very low density balsa and yes, I can squeeze a bait undercoated and topcoated with D2T or any other topcoat and feel some 'give'. It has never had an effect on the bait's performance or durability. If it bothers you, you might try rubbing the raw balsa with super glue to harden it. Whack any bait coated with any epoxy hard enough on a rock and it will chip or crack, especially in colder weather. Are there topcoats that are more impact resistant? Maybe - I've never cracked or chipped a bait coated with moisture cured urethane - at least not yet. Solarez UV cured polyester is at least as tough as epoxy but it can be chipped and it is not a high gloss finish. Etex or Flexcoat epoxy are a little more impact resistant but there is no free lunch - Etex requires multiple coats and long cure times. Flexcoat is more expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrybait Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 Thanks fellas. I'm definitely going to try the superglue first on my next balsa bait. Since my last post, I put hooks on them so I could take them to a friends pool to see how they work. I'm sure you all know how it goes when putting a split ringed hook on a bait, the hooks sometimes get cranked around and poke ya. Well when I finished I had a hook stuck right through my penetrating epoxy/d2t. Postponed my test of course while I wait for the patch to cure because I don't want any water getting into the balsa now. Thanks again, Barry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 (edited) Barry, With wood baits it is critical that the wood be sealed before you paint, so any penetration of the top coat and paint doesn't allow water to reach the wood itself, or it will cause the wood to expand and ruin your paint job. The runny super glue will penetrate to give you a more penetrating seal to start with. I use two coats, applied by dripping it onto the bait and spreading it with my plastic-covered finger. Move fast, because that stuff likes to bond quickly. Acetone is a solvent if you err. I would suggest a dip in Solarez as the next coat, to give you a really hard, strong, smooth surface to paint over. It is a polyester resin, and designed to expand and contract when exposed to the sun on a surfboard. Scuff it with a scotchbrite pad or 400 grit wet and dry sandpaper before you begin painting, to give your paint something to bite into. After that, you can paint your lure and top coat it with a decoupage epoxy, like Etex, which is also designed to move with the wood's expansion and contraction. D2T is a glue, first and foremost. The thing it is designed to do gives it limitations when we use it on wood baits. It is designed to be strong and rigid when it fills a small void between two surfaces, not to be applied as a film over large areas. I've found it works great on small wood cranks, but, as the bait gets bigger, the expansion and contraction of the wood gets larger and D2T will crack just from thermal expansion. Plus it will crack if it is spread over a large surface, like the face of a swimbait, when it hits a rock, because it is so rigid it becomes brittle. Etex will dent, but not crack. I'm no epoxy chemist, so what I know is just from my own experience. I'm a carpenter with his brains kicked in, but I did sleep in a Motel 6 last night. Edited July 18, 2014 by mark poulson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrybait Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 Thanks Mark. Makes a lot of sense and I have everything I need. Unfortunately I sealed this batch with penetrating epoxy already so I'll finish them and catch some fish on 'em before they fail. Everyone seems to agree that super glue is the best start especially with the balsa. Would you use the same formula for the basswood too? I'm going to try your formula next bait. Barry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 I've never used basswood, so I don't know. But it should work for almost any wood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
