BrianB Posted July 28, 2014 Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 My Brother runs a lure company. I asked him about this and he me this answer. What defines making a living? It's easy to find out.. Find out how much profit you make per lure (minus taxes, costs, employee labor etc etc). Say profit is $5. Say 50,000 is a living. 50,000/$5 = 10,000 lures. First question is 50,000 considered a living for you? If not change the formula. 2nd question can you market enough to sell 10,000 lures. second question can you make 10,000 lures? This is just a reverse way to look at things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saltshaker Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 (edited) I don't build lures, but, I repaint and sell approximately 100 lures per month on ebay and another 25 or so each month via FaceBook. While I don't consider it a "business"....it sure keeps my butt busy at times. It's fun, tho. Edited July 29, 2014 by saltshaker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 (edited) My Brother runs a lure company. I asked him about this and he me this answer. What defines making a living? It's easy to find out.. Find out how much profit you make per lure (minus taxes, costs, employee labor etc etc). Say profit is $5. Say 50,000 is a living. 50,000/$5 = 10,000 lures. First question is 50,000 considered a living for you? If not change the formula. 2nd question can you market enough to sell 10,000 lures. second question can you make 10,000 lures? This is just a reverse way to look at things. That is good way to start but guys really need to break that 50k down. Take medical insurance out of it, social security, taxes, retirement savings, life insurance, etc.... so that 50k now looks like what with regards to take home cash? How many hours a week to make that 50k? Now a spouse with a decent job/benefit package will make things a lot easier or tougher depending on what they feel you should be bringing in. Edited July 29, 2014 by Travis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdeee Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 Yup that's really scary, Nobody should ever start a business. Deer in the headlights, Bohoo Bohoo it's so hard. I started my business in the recession of 82, with $2000.00 borrowed from my parents. I worked 18 hour days pretty much 7days a week. After 5 years my company had its first Million in the bank, within the next years we were selling over that each year with the highest year over 7.5. All my friends and family warned that it would never work, don't waste your time!!!! I laugh at all those people now in their mediocre jobs or collecting welfare. Sure it was hard and it takes a toll on you, but the rewards are great. That is the difference in mentality between workers and entrepreneurs. I have dealt with many super wealthy people over the years and many have similar story's. If you want to be successful nobody else will do it for YOU. Most of those expenses that you speak of are tax deductible and any accountant can help figure out many advantages to being self employed . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 Yup that's really scary, Nobody should ever start a business. Deer in the headlights, Bohoo Bohoo it's so hard. I started my business in the recession of 82, with $2000.00 borrowed from my parents. I worked 18 hour days pretty much 7days a week. After 5 years my company had its first Million in the bank, within the next years we were selling over that each year with the highest year over 7.5. All my friends and family warned that it would never work, don't waste your time!!!! I laugh at all those people now in their mediocre jobs or collecting welfare. Sure it was hard and it takes a toll on you, but the rewards are great. That is the difference in mentality between workers and entrepreneurs. I have dealt with many super wealthy people over the years and many have similar story's. If you want to be successful nobody else will do it for YOU. Most of those expenses that you speak of are tax deductible and any accountant can help figure out many advantages to being self employed . Jdeee, Were you living in Montreal at the time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdeee Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 Yes the land of the highest taxes in North America. Most of the books I published were in French. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowFISH Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 Yup that's really scary, Nobody should ever start a business. Deer in the headlights, Bohoo Bohoo it's so hard. I started my business in the recession of 82, with $2000.00 borrowed from my parents. I worked 18 hour days pretty much 7days a week. After 5 years my company had its first Million in the bank, within the next years we were selling over that each year with the highest year over 7.5. All my friends and family warned that it would never work, don't waste your time!!!! I laugh at all those people now in their mediocre jobs or collecting welfare. Sure it was hard and it takes a toll on you, but the rewards are great. That is the difference in mentality between workers and entrepreneurs. I have dealt with many super wealthy people over the years and many have similar story's. If you want to be successful nobody else will do it for YOU. Most of those expenses that you speak of are tax deductible and any accountant can help figure out many advantages to being self employed . I honestly think everyone in this thread is saying the same thing - just going at it different ways. The truth is - it can be done - BUT YOUR GONNA HAVE TO WORK FOR IT. IMHO one great idea is just the start and honestly - NOT ENOUGH. There are no "million dollar" ideas - there are good ideas combined with hard work and cash that may make money.... but there is no easy ride... and I think that's what everyone is pointing out in either a positive or negative way. I have 16 years of experience in Product Development (it's my "day" job LOL!!). The hit rate of successful market launches compared to "projects" conducted is extremely low. The reason's for this are so complicated it will make your head spin - but usually it's the fact that just one facet of the business didn't work or wasn't given the proper attention - and that crumbles the rest. I've worked on many projects where the consumer feedback after testing a product was off the charts, but the product failed or never launched because the COG's were a fraction of a cent too high, or manufacturing speeds were not high enough, or marketing teams didn't position the product or support it properly, or retailers decided they wanted to merchandise the product it in a location that didn't make sense - so it fails after launch....etc, etc... I point this out NOT to deter you - but to make sure you understand it takes more than just a great idea or two... it takes being prepared to take on the many challenges of launching a product and running a business that are way beyond the great idea you have to ultimately be successful. Good luck. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdeee Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 (edited) I agree with you 100% Slowfish. It takes time to develop an eye for picking out winners in any business, for sure I have thrown out 1000's of units of product that didn't sell, that's the nature of he beast. If you are 16 years old with thoughts of starting a business ,start by making some lures and selling them on EBay to see if they sell. Get your feet wet. Learn about selling and dealing with people and what it takes to run a part time business. You have many good years ahead of you to develop all those great ideas you have in your young brain. BY NO MEANS would I ever suggest for you to talk your parents into mortgaging the Farm to go on a long shot in any business. Prove yourself, get some numbers behind you, show that you can do it. If you can do that you will have achieved something that 99% of most people who dream of being businessmen/women ever do. After that you should have saved some money to move forward and you will be able to talk someone into investing or matching your money. If fact at that point feel free to give me a PM and I will help you out. Edited July 29, 2014 by Jdeee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSilverFox Posted July 29, 2014 Report Share Posted July 29, 2014 I can't comment on having a successful business yet... may never be able to but I hope one day to say I can. If you're starting small get ready to have no life outside work, there's just not time for it. You may find one out of a hundred who just get lucky from the start and business booms but that's not usually the case. I don't sell any crankbaits yet... maybe one day but I'm in the fishing related industry. I went out on a limb and sponsored one of the bassmaster elite guys last year. I can tell you that my return on my investment may have bought me a tank of gas... and I spent a lot of money and time on it. I tell you this because there are no sure bets in the industry. I knew it was a long shot and should have known better but I did it anyway. I thought maybe getting seen and talked about would make up for my shortcomings in being a salesman. It didn't work and I wasted thousands of dollars. Nobody else is going to work as hard for you as you will for yourself. You have to believe in yourself and your product or you'll never make it. good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowFISH Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 I'll chime in on one other thought.... I have a close friend that was in software sales. He took a large portion of his salary a few years ago and invested in creating a bike business. He made a business plan and decided to purchase one container ship of "his" bikes built in China and see how it went. If they all sold - he'd keep going - if not - eventually he'd cut the price low enough - put them on EBAY and get his cash back at worst. Needless to say - he's done VERY well with it and a few of the notable things he does that might help you... First - he's a salesmen - very nice guy - can talk to anyone. So he sticks to that - he outsources the manufacturing, development, shipping, warehousing, product photography, etc,etc, etc, etc. The theory here is - he's only one person and he's NOT qualified to do many of the tasks that need to be done as part of the business. He took on the portion he's qualified for and devotes a large portion of his time to doing it very well. This allows others (the people he pays) who are more qualified and efficient to do the things they do. Does this come out of his bottom line... no doubt. But if he's spending his time labeling and shipping bicycles to a shop that have already been sold - he's not using that time to sell more bikes to someone else. So he's been able to grow the business in a way that works to suit his talents best. Second - (Add admittedly this really helped) His wife works in PR. So she's helped guide him to get his company name out there. He's worked to get into publications - on the news - they use social media extremely well - sets up demo rides - sponsors bike rides and the like - so aside from sales - he's constantly promoting to drive more sales. He does this all from a 2 bedroom condo with a wife and 2 kids - no office - no warehouse - no garage... a laptop, a phone and a car to get out there and sell. So the point I'm trying to make is - you don't have to wear every hat to start your business - and in some cases in may hinder you to do so. Pick off the chunks you NEED to do - and take a look at how outsourcing can help support the others. it's a little bit of a different world out there today - Kick-starter, Quirky, etc didn't exist years ago - now relyign on others to help is entirely possible and in some cases may be the only way to do it. If you can only carve and paint 5 baits a day in your garage - but can develop a pattern and have a shop carve 5000 in a couple days and ship them to a painter who knocks them out in a couple weeks - you'd have alot more product on hand and during those weeks you can be selling, developing, etc etc. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverMan Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 Sure it's possible, anything is possible, but if you ask any 100 builders selling their lures my guess is that less than 10% of them, maybe less than 5% of them make enough off the business to where they can quit their day job. There are some very talented builders out there and many are also very motivated and yet they still can't make a go of it. It's a tough business, fun, but very difficult to do in a way that pays well. Just in the decade I have been selling I have seen dozens come and go. RM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdeee Posted July 30, 2014 Report Share Posted July 30, 2014 Slowfish That's a great example of a smart businessman. Low overhead and how he focuses on his strengths and takes advantage of others talents. That is a winning formula and one day soon he will probably hit upon another great selling product or two or three that shoots him off into much larger business that will employ many other people. Once you fiqure out a winning formula to make money it just gets easier and easier to make more money and what tells you are on the right track is that many fantastic deals just keeping coming across your desk. Riverman That's the law of averages in any business venture. 5% will last and make money. 100 people can start a business selling turnips and in the end only 5 will be doing it five years later. EVERY business is hard and has its problems and hurdles to overcome. If it was easy every joker would be running a business and there would be no one as employees. That fortunately will never happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CustomBaits4You Posted July 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 I can produce the numbers to make a living so by theory wouldn't I just need to find enough shops to buy them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 Your actually going to need customers to buy them...If they are selling well getting them into stores won't be a Issue...Nathan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty's Posted August 2, 2014 Report Share Posted August 2, 2014 But getting said stores to pay for product is a whole nother topic 9/10 bait shops can't pay their bills. The ones that do take you out 6 months or a year. Many times poorly managed with no business experience. I don't sell in many bait shops anymore. If you don't pay your bill I don't work for you... Your actually going to need customers to buy them...If they are selling well getting them into stores won't be a Issue...Nathan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty's Posted August 2, 2014 Report Share Posted August 2, 2014 Rickimaro you think you can make the numbers of lures to make a living at this? Didn't you say you were 16? I got 9 cnc machines in my shop and I'm the largest fishing lure kit mfg in the world.... I ain't drivin a new car, I don't have a Lear jet and my kid gets partial assistance to go to college. I have 13 years of busting ass in this business. I live in a modest house, most of my stuff is paid for...still got a truck payment out of 3 vehicles in my driveway. It costs me $3200 a month BEFORE I make a single lure. Do you have any idea how many lures it takes to MAKE $3200 in profit just to pay the rent? It ain't what you think kid. I'll go back to what I said before when you told me not to plan your life....Give it a few years then once you got a little more hair on ya sack go and revisit if you still think you want to start a business. Just do it on the up and up. I'm sure your mum and dad don't want their house attached by the irs because you got caught cheating under the table. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted August 2, 2014 Report Share Posted August 2, 2014 Rickimaro you think you can make the numbers of lures to make a living at this? Didn't you say you were 16? I got 9 cnc machines in my shop and I'm the largest fishing lure kit mfg in the world.... I ain't drivin a new car, I don't have a Lear jet and my kid gets partial assistance to go to college. I have 13 years of busting ass in this business. I live in a modest house, most of my stuff is paid for...still got a truck payment out of 3 vehicles in my driveway. It costs me $3200 a month BEFORE I make a single lure. Do you have any idea how many lures it takes to MAKE $3200 in profit just to pay the rent? It ain't what you think kid. I'll go back to what I said before when you told me not to plan your life....Give it a few years then once you got a little more hair on ya sack go and revisit if you still think you want to start a business. Just do it on the up and up. I'm sure your mum and dad don't want their house attached by the irs because you got caught cheating under the table. That about sums it up. Go into it as a hobby and you'll have fun your whole life. Make a job out of it, and you kill the buzz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverMan Posted August 2, 2014 Report Share Posted August 2, 2014 (edited) For those so convinced it can be done with "good business planning and hard work" I say go for it! Come back and talk to us in five years. RM Edited August 2, 2014 by RiverMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdeee Posted August 2, 2014 Report Share Posted August 2, 2014 The only thing that I'm trying to say here is that trying to dissuade a 16-year-old who wants to start a business because of what fear of competition to you???? That's what it sounds like! I don't know what the problem is. Maybe young Rickimaro will become the next Rapala, you just never know. No young man you will not be able to compete against The Chinese at $.25 an hour labour costs. Forget about trying to make 20,000 or more lures as competition to them, they will kill you. You will never win. They will copy you like everyone says in the second. The old-school way of doing business will never work again in the USA. So to all those guys out there who are trying to do it you will never succeed. Yes, there are people able to run successful businesses in lures out there, who are not Chinese. I know a few. Sure they're not making millions of dollars doing it, but they are happy and enjoy what they do and make their living. They think outside the box and do things that other people don't. They find little niche markets that other people are not willing to deal with or just don't see. Commerce is changing so fast these days. It's not enough to have a little tiny website and think you're going to make tons of money that's finished now. Offshore companies are now able to manufacture goods and sell items one at a the time to people directly through the Internet for a couple of dollars with free shipping, because of cheap postal rates in their countries. This will kill off even the Walmarts in the future as they can't even compete with that kind of FALLING PRICING!!!! This is where the future lies. People just want cheap crap and are willing to buy it at any cost to their own good. That's what people want, that's what they will get. Companies over their are lining up to sell to you. I won't rant anymore in this thread this will be my last post on this subject and I will leave it to you guys to finish the discussion hopefully with a little positive outcome. ))) good luck to you all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty's Posted August 3, 2014 Report Share Posted August 3, 2014 Jdee if that was directed at me all I can say is I fear no-one. I'm not trying to dissuade anyone I'm just saying go into it knowing first what your getting into. The kid is green behind the ears. He's got alot of learning to do if he thinks this is a profitable business to be in or that he "can make the numbers he needs to be profitable" Last thing I would like to see no matter how much I detest people who don't do this on the legal level is for them to get caught up in an irs audit because someone dropped a dime on them. As I said I'm sure his dad wouldn't like to see his house get attached...and a 16 yo isn't going to proffer up the kind of money they'll be looking for if he's out there selling lures to shops or people and not paying his taxes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty's Posted August 3, 2014 Report Share Posted August 3, 2014 Chinese people making fishing lures make .25 A DAY. You can buy chinese lures for .50ea with hooks delivered to USA...It's ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted August 3, 2014 Report Share Posted August 3, 2014 (edited) Chinese people making fishing lures make .25 A DAY. You can buy chinese lures for .50ea with hooks delivered to USA...It's ridiculous. I have to agree. People being paid slave wages makes it impossible to compete on price alone. Edited August 3, 2014 by mark poulson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodieb8 Posted August 3, 2014 Report Share Posted August 3, 2014 salty..mark correct im here in Canada. when our goverments allowed Asian marketplace free reign,north America,s on the slo-ride down. . in 10 more years this debate will be looong gone along with most n.american manufacturers.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis Posted August 3, 2014 Report Share Posted August 3, 2014 I won't blame it on foreign manufacturing all that much. Collectively we have received exactly what we wanted...cheap goods at all cost. American goods in some sectors helped out by making complete garbage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty's Posted August 3, 2014 Report Share Posted August 3, 2014 I lay partial blame on them. I lay more blame on the American people and govt. If Americans didn't buy the stuff there wouldnt be a market for it. If the govt didn't let them do whatever they damn well pleased there still would be no market for it. Look on ebay, you got 1000's and 1000's of small chinese sellers mailing things in china post packets for next to nothing. Their govt bankrolls their little businesses and promotes it. Ours doesn't. They just tax the crap out of us and this sets most up for failure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
