jonister Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 hey, another clearcoat question. I have been using etex and even after measuring by volume and trying to do everything write have not really been impressed. I have done a search on here and came up with "auto clear" and some sorts of urethane. but I don't like the idea of auto clear as I feel I would kill myself with it. Any cheap/somewhat affordable yet easy to use clearcoats? Also would rattle can clearcoats work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAWGFAN Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 Have you tried Devcon 2 ton? It seems to be much more forgiving and harder than Etex. I made the switch and won't go back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonister Posted July 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 Yes, I totally forgot about devcon. ive used it before and it was actually what got me started. what product (30 minute, 5 minute)? would u say works best. I think I used 30 minute. and could I apply it over etex? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodieb8 Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 clear acrylic or clear lacquer. depends upon paints you work with Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAWGFAN Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 Don't use 5 min epoxies for your clear coat. Use the 2 ton (30 min). It should be fine over a coat of Etex. If your Etex didn't cure properly, you may have issues. In that case, I'd strip it and start over. Otherwise, you might give it a quick scuff with a fine sanding sponge, then wipe it down. You'll see lots of solvents mentioned for this step. They're all good for removing any oils that may be present from handling. The one I use, and don't hear about as often is rubbing alcohol. I get the highest concentration I can find, but any would do. If it were to feel damp, just hit it with the hair dryer (or whatever) you use to heat set your paints, but it typically evaporates very quickly. It's readily available, inexpensive, and less hazardous to handle than acetone and some others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 I was told by an Etex techy that another coat of well mixed Etex will make the previous coat set properly, and will bond with no prep, as long as it is still clean. If not, wipe it clean with denatured alcohol, and then recoat, but be sure to mix the second coat really thoroughly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonister Posted July 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 I will probably be trying/going back to 2ton I think. Another question. how long does etex take to get hard? the lure I coated yesterday (10 pm) is still soft but not tacky right now. is it just not fully cured? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 Etex will not get truly hard, like D2T. It is designed to stretch and shrink with the wood surfaces it covers, like table tops. But it should be hard enough after 8 hours to fish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonister Posted July 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 It is probably hard enough to fish. If im going back to 2 ton, will it work on jointed crankbaits? ive heard of the epoxy wearing off at the straight edge corners where it is jointed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveG Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 Etex drying time is subject to temperature and humidity, in a warm room around 80 degrees with low humidity it will cure in about 7-8 hours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglinarcher Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 Yes, coating a poorly cured etex with a new fresh coat works. No, it does not harden as hard as D2T. Yes, in warm and humid conditions, 8 hours is fishable, but it actually takes close to 48 hours for etex to be fully cured. How much of a difference is there between an 8 hour and a 24 hour cure? Depends on temperature, coat thickness, etc. I use Etex, D2T, any slow cure epoxy, Solarez, and a new Alumilite UV Cure Epoxy they are developing, and all work for me. I like the Alumilite UV Cure Epoxy for overall use, but can't use it for materials when it can seep under applied materials, like foil, eyes, etc., or it won't ever cure. Solarez works well for me, but it is never as clear as the other materials - but cures in 3 minutes under the proper UV lights or outside in the sun. The epoxies, including D2T, are great, but I suffer more fish eye results if I don't clean the lure of all oils, or I place over the wrong materials (like foil sometimes). Etex requires a long slow dry (like epoxy) on my lure turner/dryer, and it can be a bit thin, but it is probably the most bullet proof. Moisture cures? Have not tried them. Auto Clears? Won't use due to high VOCs. Rattle cans, use them as a primer, sealer, and as a fast and dirty, got to go fishing now, clear and they work fine, but not as durable or as the above. I have seen a lot of options suggested and used on this site, and I will bet that more options will be discovered in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted July 23, 2014 Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 All epoxies tend to draw away from and thin out over sharp edges as they cure. When first coated, you can't see the edge thinning but it wears out fast. I think all you can do is round the edges to a radius or switch to another topcoat. Of the available topcoats, I've had best results with moisture cured urethane. It's tough as nails after curing for a few days. But storage is a problem and you need to read up on it before taking that plunge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonister Posted July 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 The etex on the lure I talked about above did infact cure and also cured the bottom layer as talked about above. another question, can I use spray on polyurethane? I have a can of Defthane spray on polyurethane clear gloss. I have sprayed it onto 2 wooden lures now and it seems to hold up but I have only tank tested the lures and havnt really given them the test of time yet, also I have only tried it on very smooth lures as I feel it is to thin to use on baits that need thicker topcoats such as wooden crankbaits. I have also used it on plastic lures in which it works amazingly. Does any one have experience with this stuff or something like it? also, how can I get my hands on some of that alumalite UV cure stuff. I have been trying to get some for such a long time now but it seems Alumalite didn't sell it last time I checked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Posted July 24, 2014 Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 The Alumilite UV top coat is still in development ...I'm been asking about it for a year on their website...They haven't posted any updates on it for several months so I don't know if they have dumped the project or not...Nathan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglinarcher Posted July 24, 2014 Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 Nathan and others, the project has not been dumped, just proving difficult. It is an actual Epoxy, and I love it, but like everything, Mike with Alumilite is trying to get it just right. If it has any "issues", then guys on this site (just joking) will complain about those issues. Jokes aside, we all know you cannot please everyone, but Mike is trying to please as many as possible. I got lucky several years ago and got acquainted with Larry Dahlberg. When Larry and I talked, I guess he figured I was a bit too scientific about everything I did. LOL But, because he was friends with Mike of Alumilite, and they had new products coming out, I guess that my overly scientific engineering point of view was something that they found useful. That is why I can post the density graph of several of their products, and why I know so much about some of them. I got early samples to test for them. The Alumilite Foam was one of the best success stories, and it came out after work on the UV Epoxy was started. Having a fast setting, super tough, dense as cedar wood foam has proven very useful for a lot of uses. The UV Epoxy seems easy to formulate in small batches, but the larger batches have been inconsistent as I understand it. At first, it was a little too thin, then a little too thick. My sample came full of spots and was as thick as Honey when it arrived, but we figured out it was caused by shipping it during the winter which changed the viscosity. It turns out the spots were large air bubbles created by shipping and they floated to the top as my sample warmed up over time in the house. My sample thinned down after setting in the house over several days, but I also figured out that I could zap it in a microwave for a few seconds and I could adjust the viscosity easily. Not sure if the normal consumer would want to have to do that. I am NOT the only tester. Some said it was a little too brittle, so said it was just too hard to drill through. I have not talked to Mike for a while now, but I believe Larry and I think it is time to put it into production. The last I heard, Mike was just tweaking it before he brought it out. I too hope it comes out for sale soon, my small sample is running out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglinarcher Posted July 24, 2014 Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 I just got to thinking. You could get on the Alumilite web site, go to contacts, and send Mike an email asking about the UV Cure epoxy. If he sees that there is really a lot of people waiting for it, perhaps he can divert more resources and time to get it out????? Just saying............... TU does have power in numbers and expertise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonister Posted July 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2014 Thanks for the reply, I may have to send them an email... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonister Posted August 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 Thanks guys and @HAWGFAN for suggesting D2T. I got some and now am wondering why I ever changed to etex. It is the exact hardness I was looking for! Also, one more thing, does it leave amine blush residue? I know some epoxies do and can be cleaned with acetone or water. obviously these are going to get wet as most lures do , but I still was just wondering. And how long does it take to hard cure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglinarcher Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 I have never observed any "amine blush residue" with cure. As for a hard cure, 24 hours in normal temperatures, 36 hours if you do it when it is a little cool (like my man cave during the winter). As a long cure epoxy, it does not get rock hard or brittle. It gets hard, and like all epoxies, it gets harder with time. Still, even a year after it is cured, it seldom yellows and retains enough flex to withstand normal impacts that shatter short cure epoxies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 I have never observed any "amine blush residue" with cure. As for a hard cure, 24 hours in normal temperatures, 36 hours if you do it when it is a little cool (like my man cave during the winter). As a long cure epoxy, it does not get rock hard or brittle. It gets hard, and like all epoxies, it gets harder with time. Still, even a year after it is cured, it seldom yellows and retains enough flex to withstand normal impacts that shatter short cure epoxies. AA, I think he is talking about D2T, and you're talking about Etex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAWGFAN Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 I've never experienced blushing with any epoxy that I've tried. However, CA glues that you might use to install bills with can leave a residue while curing. D2T coated baits can usually be gently handled in three hours, at room temperature. After 24 hours, you could essentially consider them "full hard". That's not to say that they'll never get any harder though. In a pinch, I've coated in the afternoon, and fished them the next morning, with good results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglinarcher Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 No Mark, I am talking about D2T. I have used epoxies, especially D2T, for years, long before I started using it for lure top coating or clear coating lures. In archery, epoxy is often used to glue the point inserts into graphite/carbon shafts. Short cure epoxies would get brittle and the inserts would pull out in almost a year to the date. Several of us did test in the archery world and I took every brand and cure rate of epoxy I could get and made test samples (samples placed on wax paper, then lifted and left exposed to the air and sun) that I left on my roll top desk for about 5 years to see what happened. All epoxies will yellow after time, but Devcon D2T was one that did not yellow much. 5 minute epoxies would shatter if you bent them after just a couple of months, 24 hour epoxies would still be flexible after a year. No Mark, I know what I am talking about on this one and I won't budge on it. No, I was not testing it for lures at the time, but life does not revolve just about fishing lures. The test were valid and others confirmed the results. I expect you can find the test results still reported on Archerytalk.com, probably dated about 5 to 8 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted August 1, 2014 Report Share Posted August 1, 2014 (edited) AA, I guess I'm confused. You said that, as a long cure epoxy, it never really gets hard or brittle. I took that to mean Etex, which is a decoupage epoxy and does stay flexible. D2T is, first and foremost, a glue. It does get hard and brittle, but, as a glue, you don't want it to stay flexible, or you would get creep, and eventual failure of the glue joint. When I've used D2T to coat larger lures it has cracked and flaked when I did a rock test, intentionally of course. Hahaha That was what got me onto Etex in the first place, because it dents but doesn't crack on the same kind of rock test. I am totally lost when it comes to anything archery-related, so I will gladly yield to your expertise on anything that has to do with archery. Edited August 1, 2014 by mark poulson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglinarcher Posted August 3, 2014 Report Share Posted August 3, 2014 Epoxies, glues if you will, come in different strengths, different properties. Not all glues are brittle, not all glues are clear, not all glues are ............. Etex is actually no different in base compounds to D2T. They both will "glue" and they both will "clear coat". The real difference is in the eventual hardness, clarity, and flexibility. Yes, you can shatter or crack D2T if you smack a rock at 30 MPH, but ....... if you take a dollop off of wax paper and slowly bend it, it will flex. Try it, you are a smart guy. Do the same with Etex. You will discover that the Etex is more flexible, a little clearer, takes a little longer to cure. In fact, in most respects, D2T differs from short cure epoxies like Etex differs from D2T. The longer an epoxy takes to cure, the LESS brittle it ends up. The longer the epoxy takes to cure, the less it clouds up (more clear it can stay). This tends to be true for epoxies of the same bases, so if you plan on testing with JB Weld, your results may differ. Contrary to apparent popular opinion, Etex is nothing more then a slow cure epoxy. The application is for "decoupage" but it is still just an epoxy. And, if you have a heavy lure, and smack a rock at 45 MPH, it too will shatter or crack. It just takes more of the abuse then D2T, which will take more abuse then 5 minute epoxies. Again, I don't want to argue the point, I respect you too much Mark. All I can suggest to you, and to everyone else following this thread, is to take some wax paper, put a similar sized dollop of 5 minutes epoxy, perhaps a 4 hour epoxy, D2T and Etex on it. Let them cure for a few days, then remove it. Place the dollops where they can just set out of the way for several months and check them out every once in a while. See if what I say is not true. In fact, make several dollops of each and you can test them to destruction for as long as you wish. Prove me wrong is you can. I am NOT ALWAYS right. If you need conformation about that, I can put you in touch with my wife. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted August 4, 2014 Report Share Posted August 4, 2014 I am only speaking from my years as a lure builder and fisherman, not as an epoxy chemist. What I posted has been my experience when building wooden lures. Obviously, your wife is wrong. You do know everything, at least when it comes to epoxy! Please don't tell her I said that. Hahaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
