Got My Hands In The Air "still Having This Problem Many Bubbles In The Melted Plastic

[smallmouthaholic]

Time is money in business- one learns that very quickly w/ 5-7 employees in the contracting business.

The small,manufacturing bait business has little profit to throw away along w/ plenty of aggravation. That said,I like inexpensive plastisol like anyone else.I can get by w/ the less expensive brands for colored worms and craws(get by means tolerate) but I require good plastisol for injected tubes and multicolored swim-baits that-

                         

                         1- Does not bubble/ froth/foam like  the head on a glass of beer

                          2- does not hard pack in the container

                          3- remains clear for multiple re-heats when necessary in a microwave

                          4- Non sticky finished product

                          5- Offensive smell/smoke

                          6-No yellowing and/or  color changes 1-3 months later w/ packaged baits.

 

I respect those who have the time and desire to DE-air their own plastisol. I choose to spend a bit more $, not have basic problems and devote my time to manufacturing quality products.I understand the mass producing manufacture using 8-15 drums per years in HIgh volume producing injection machines most certainly wishes to cut cost.

 

This has been an interesting discussion but it seems funny that one manufacture doesn't de-air and their product doesn't have any of the aforementioned problems. The only conclusion I can determine is they must use more expensive products in the manufacturing of their plastisol which is more suitable for hand injection.To each his own-peace!

[Baitjunkys]

I find it hard to believe at some point it is not de aired. Its pretty much industry standard. Cool beans they dont have to. The plastic I de air myself. I got several very happy customers. We do the best we can. At a price well affordable to the hand pour guys. Has been fun. I think I will indeed bow out now.. If anyone wants to take the price matching offer up. We get 119.00 per 5 no degass needed. He said he would price match I encourage you to take him up on it. See if he will price match the shipping as well. Thanks guys.

[Slammingjack]

As a hobbyist I hate having to fight or "learn" how to use a plastic. There is so much that you have to learn in this "hobby" and so much you can mess up. Babysitting a plastic is not what a somebody who is new to this hobby needs. Heating then cooling a plastic and reheating to get bubbles out is just  BS to me. I like a plastic that you can shake a little and pour. That is so consistent every pour is the same every time. From the first to the last pour in a five gallon jug it's the same stuff. Cost more? Sure it does. Is it worth it? OH YES IT IS. Just like this topic. Pulling your hair out because you got bubbles and don't know if it's something your doing or the plastic. If you use good plastic, which you know does not get bubbles that is one less thing to figure out. Just my

[Frank]

Time is money in business- one learns that very quickly w/ 5-7 employees in the contracting business.

The small,manufacturing bait business has little profit to throw away along w/ plenty of aggravation. That said,I like inexpensive plastisol like anyone else.I can get by w/ the less expensive brands for colored worms and craws(get by means tolerate) but I require good plastisol for injected tubes and multicolored swim-baits that-

                         

                         1- Does not bubble/ froth/foam like  the head on a glass of beer

                          2- does not hard pack in the container

                          3- remains clear for multiple re-heats when necessary in a microwave

                          4- Non sticky finished product

                          5- Offensive smell/smoke

                          6-No yellowing and/or  color changes 1-3 months later w/ packaged baits.

 

I respect those who have the time and desire to DE-air their own plastisol. I choose to spend a bit more $, not have basic problems and devote my time to manufacturing quality products.I understand the mass producing manufacture using 8-15 drums per years in HIgh volume producing injection machines most certainly wishes to cut cost.

 

This has been an interesting discussion but it seems funny that one manufacture doesn't de-air and their product doesn't have any of the aforementioned problems. The only conclusion I can determine is they must use more expensive products in the manufacturing of their plastisol which is more suitable for hand injection.To each his own-peace!

That is my point exactly he does not use the less expensive stuff. But the less expensive stuff has air in it so to make it bubble free you need to get it out. More expensive does not make it better. Maybe easier to use but vacumning it takes about 45 seconds and you don't have to baby sit it. Most of you know I pour baits for other company's and believe me penny's count. A penny in production cost is much more when it comes to a retail price. It is a make or break thing. Some may not want to spend the money to buy a vacumn system so then they either live with the bubbles or buy the plastic that does not have this issue. Not that the other plastics don't have any other issue but that is another thread. The problem that was first discussed was bubbles in Calhoun plastic, I say it is air based on experience using it and others like it. Telling him to buy another product is a long term answer but now he is stuck with plastic that he won't use because he thinks there is something wrong with it. When in all reality it is normal. The nature of the less expensive plastics.

[jeff@mf]

Thanks, Jeff

$143.00

-$5.00

$138.00 divided by 5  - $27.60 per gallon

NO de-air needed

Make a phone call I match anyone's price for the kind folks of TU, my number is 817-281-9488

Thanks BJ OK were done talking now......................................................................................................................

I find it hard to believe at some point it is not de aired. Its pretty much industry standard. Cool beans they dont have to. The plastic I de air myself. I got several very happy customers. We do the best we can. At a price well affordable to the hand pour guys. Has been fun. I think I will indeed bow out now.. If anyone wants to take the price matching offer up. We get 119.00 per 5 no degass needed. He said he would price match I encourage you to take him up on it. See if he will price match the shipping as well. Thanks guys. 

 

 

OK friend, I'll sell you 5-5 for $119.00 each plus shipping. I am not giving free shipping on this deal....119.-- divided by 5 = $23.80

 

Buy a 55 gallon drum and its below your cost coming in at wait, wait ....Ok $22.07 per gallon, proof is in the drum. I am personally done with you and do not have to explain myself again. WE DO NOT DE AIR M-F PLASTISOL AND WOULD NOT THINK OF IT!!

 

How much is the de air system frank?  We were looking into other brands to offer but they just don't stand up to the quality, but again your happy with your product and leave it at that. This is just plain  stupid bj starts this stuff everytime and I get a phone call about your unreasonable quotes, add 20.00 stabilizer to what???

Thats it bj, thatnks a bunch, good day freend

Edited September 11, 2014 by jeff@mf

[jeff@mf]

Like putting the gun bulls-eye on Bear, that's not very manly and I would of called a lawyer ASAP as a death threat!

[Frank]

Vacumn systems are about 200 dollars and can be found on eBay in pieces for a bit less. Not really rocket science just get a vacumn pump that will get as close to 30 lbs vacumn as you can. Mine get to about 29.5 or so. I this is a joke I am not taking it as such and offering my help. If you are really going to offer a product at a lower price but will take a little getting used then great. This will give customers a choice of which levels they like and can afford. Spikeit does that now and it seems to work out if your customer makes the choice for them selves. Just for the record I do believe Spikeit plastic is more on the blue side which makes it clearer to the eye. But to judge that you need to have both side by side.

[jeff@mf]

Vacumn systems are about 200 dollars and can be found on eBay in pieces for a bit less. Not really rocket science just get a vacumn pump that will get as close to 30 lbs vacumn as you can. Mine get to about 29.5 or so. I this is a joke I am not taking it as such and offering my help. If you are really going to offer a product at a lower price but will take a little getting used then great. This will give customers a choice of which levels they like and can afford. Spikeit does that now and it seems to work out if your customer makes the choice for them selves. Just for the record I do believe Spikeit plastic is more on the blue side which makes it clearer to the eye. But to judge that you need to have both side by side.

I'm not going as far as a permanent price reduction for you to compare apples to air, this final point is to say at M-F 55 gallon drums is as cheap as or cheaper than above competition described. I'm also smart enough to not sell certain folks that are clearly going to complain that it don't bubble and something is wrong "where are my bubbles?"  If new inexperienced humans need help with a price adjustment, glad to help.  I assume you are happy with your plastic no joke. First word of spike it in the topic that I have heard of now I guess you use it. I have already helped a few folks and now done with this topic and logging out till next MF bash. If its a gallon you want I will match the above plastic for a short while until this clears. I got to go work, out and thanks for the lesson Frank there's zero understanding here...thanks and kind regards both of you are right and I need to go make my paycheck and check out VS after  work on my own time. Anyone need a price match on small or whatever call me at above number.. can't hardly compete with giving plastic away.....

[Baitjunkys]

Id like to apologize to the forum. It was never my intention to bash said person. I ran my original post thru a few grammar checkers for giggles. Besides a few missed commas and a couple spelling errors my sentence was right on. My quotes eliminated said person from my post. Interpurt it as bashing if you wish. But if you check, it got twisted and stayed that way. Again I apologize to all of you. I will refrain from posting here any longer. As we as suppliers can not post at all without misinterpurtation.

Once again sorry and thank you.

[Bassinfool]

Us users, myself included, both enjoy and value those of you who are involved in the manufacture and sales of plastic and supplies input and always look forward to what you all have to say. That being said, when someone asks a question about your product the only thing your answer should contain is information about your product. Nothing else, no mention of other brands, names, nothing. If they're looking for a comparison let other users handle that, but the incessant bickering between one another has to stop. When I posted the "dick measuring contest" as a joke on the first page or so I was only half kidding because I knew this thread was just set up to spiral down into this crap filled hole we find ourselves in now.

Think of it this way, if you were new to this hobby and were excited to get started and came on TU looking for answers and saw this childish squabble from not just adults but adults who own plastic supply companies. What is that person to think? Is that really the first impression you want to make? Even if it isn't a first impression, is that how you want to be known among hobbyist and producer? No, of course not, no one wants that reputation in any situation.

So next time fellas, please, I implore you all to sit back in your chair and take a deep breath and just let it go. If you feel like you've been insulted or bashed in some way, send a private message to the person and get some clarification and ask them to make it right in the thread or to have the original posting deleted. If they're not willing to do those things and you still feel something should be done there are admins for a reason so please contact one of them, they're always happy to help.

Lastly, thank you guys for apologizing. An admirable thing to do, truly it is. I hope this is the last bickering battle I see on here for a long while. The pouring community isn't a huge one so we need to get along as best we can and help one another if we are in a position to do so, not be divisive over something so trivial. Sorry for the long post, just my thoughts on this subject and the bickering in general. Take care and tight lines.

[gone2long]

Well said bf that was my point earlier in the thread just didn't do all the typing you did.

[MonteSS]

I have used LC, Caney, MF, Calhouns. and BJ plastic. Never had bubble or any other probs in any of them. I use a low powered micro and live in rather humid Virginia.

 

OP got a bad batch of plastic and should contact the seller.

[smallmouthaholic]

Consider this-

 

              

Container Sweat

It occurs when the skin of the container is cooled to a temperature
below that of the dew point of the air enclosed within the container.

This results in water droplets forming on the interior roof and side
panels.

 

Years ago I ordered 55 gallons Of Chemionics Plastisol in 5 gallon pales. The plastic was awesome for the 1st 3 months-then bubbling became profuse using small amounts in a microwave.The original containers were stacked on the garage floor,sealed and never opened until transfer and use.. There was no problem using the plastisol in presto pots w/ stirrers. The chemist @ Chemionics gave me the usual corporate song and dance followed by-" We guarantee our plastisols for 3 months."

 

MF has never done this stored the exact same way for the same length of time and transferred to small 1 gallon containers the exact same method.

 

WHY?  Where did the moister come from?Chemionics seperates in storage but does not hard pack,MF does not separate nor hard pack.

 

Unfortunately, I  must use the manufacturers names for comparison. I'll not air my complaints w/ 4 other brands I have used many times over the years. I agree the microwave is the enemy of plastisol

[Dinkerblue]

Wow what a mess This post has become I really dont know how we all ended up with members totally off subject Members even remembering the original simple question .I was only asking and looking for advice and a solution thats all! To what I had ordered and was looking for answers to resolve the numerous bubbles that would develop as I would heat up the plastisol and mix it.Again I was not bashing or endorsing any company. Just stating a problem and looking for answers. I would like to say to members respectfully no matter what lets stay on the Questions and not open a can of worms. To make story short the Manufacturer had a bad batch unfortunately that happens. There going to replace it. End of topic

Thanks.

[smallmouthaholic]

Dinkerblue,

                 You do not have to apologize.Unfortunately,all plastisols are not created equal.You'll just have to absorb what has been presented throughout the discussion and make your own decision based on what you believe will be the best plastisol for your application.

[SlowFISH]

Dinkerblue,

                 You do not have to apologize.Unfortunately,all plastisols are not created equal.You'll just have to absorb what has been presented throughout the discussion and make your own decision based on what you believe will be the best plastisol for your application.

 

Probably the best piece of advice in this thread.... and realistically you can take that even a bit further - as there are somethings you'll NEVER get a cut and dry answer too (unfortunately) and what works perfect for one person is a nightmare for another (ex. prestos vs micros / Pyrex vs. Silicone / Injection vs hand pour / etc. etc.).... as much as the people on this site can and are willing to help - anyone's advice is what works for them and there are almost NO universals with this stuff..... this is one of those trail and error type hobbies.... even if you follows someone else's playbook step by step.

 

Glad to hear you have it worked out - trust me - everyone goes through some sort of unexplained non-sense at some point and gets frustrated - but the more you try and experiment (and spend money LOL!!) the more you'll figure it out.  

 

  J.

[MonteSS]

Wow what a mess This post has become I really dont know how we all ended up with members totally off subject Members even remembering the original simple question .I was only asking and looking for advice and a solution thats all! To what I had ordered and was looking for answers to resolve the numerous bubbles that would develop as I would heat up the plastisol and mix it.Again I was not bashing or endorsing any company. Just stating a problem and looking for answers. I would like to say to members respectfully no matter what lets stay on the Questions and not open a can of worms. To make story short the Manufacturer had a bad batch unfortunately that happens. There going to replace it. End of topic

Thanks.

 

Thats what I said two post above yours.

 

Glad they made things right.

[fishon-son]

can I ask for a few pictures of the baits and a pic or two of the cooked plastic with the air in it.....just thinking this might be a made up question. and has got way out of the norm......

[mark poulson]

Wow what a mess This post has become I really dont know how we all ended up with members totally off subject Members even remembering the original simple question .I was only asking and looking for advice and a solution thats all! To what I had ordered and was looking for answers to resolve the numerous bubbles that would develop as I would heat up the plastisol and mix it.Again I was not bashing or endorsing any company. Just stating a problem and looking for answers. I would like to say to members respectfully no matter what lets stay on the Questions and not open a can of worms. To make story short the Manufacturer had a bad batch unfortunately that happens. There going to replace it. End of topic

Thanks.

 

Glad you guys worked it out.

[Dinkerblue]

Wow!Pm me your email and I will gladly send you pictures

[Lonestarbaitcompany]

Good Night!

 

For anyone else having a hard pack problem with plastic they already have... I take the paint can approach, throw a couple of CLEAN DRY stainless steel nuts in the jug. It can take a while but it will remix the plastic.

[ReflexionSwimbaits]

I had the same problem... best thing I ever did was start vacuum degassing the virgin plastisol before I heated it up. Works perfectly... I can heat up any amount and if I let the vacuum chamber do its job I have zero bubbles. 

 

I didn't have the money to buy a chamber so I built one from a harbor freight vacuum pump, my wife's stock pot (don't tell her), and a piece of 1/2" acrylic. Instructions on youtube!

[Bass-Boys]

I have used LC, Caney, MF, Calhouns. and BJ plastic. Never had bubble or any other probs in any of them. I use a low powered micro and live in rather humid Virginia.

 

OP got a bad batch of plastic and should contact the seller.

wow,

 that's a bold statement..

never any bubbles in any of those ??

I can not say the same.

[bass shack]

I talked to Bruce at Spikeit about this problem 5 yr.  ago. plasticizers  were never made or will be for microwaves . he told me if your using a 750 watt. and higher you can boil the plasticizers to fast results micro bubbles. condensation can be a reel prob. my  micro. are  500 watt no bubbles using mf

[mark poulson]

I talked to Bruce at Spikeit about this problem 5 yr.  ago. plasticizers  were never made or will be for microwaves . he told me if your using a 750 watt. and higher you can boil the plasticizers to fast results micro bubbles. condensation can be a reel prob. my  micro. are  500 watt no bubbles using mf

 

That make sense.  Thanks.  Does that mean heating it more slowly, and stirring, will lessen bubbling?