mark poulson Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 You must be a slow learner Mark. How many times did you have to stick your hand in the fire before you figured out fire hurts? Touche! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougarftd Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 This has been a great thread...great info here! Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bois d'Arc Posted October 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 As it turns out MCU is unfriendly with just about everything. Did a little searching for info on the wrinkling problem and found some interesting stuff. Wrinkling results from the surface being high in viscosity and the lower layers being less so, more fluid like. MCU is activated by air so the exposed layers dry faster than the lower layers. Its the slower drying layers that cause the wrinkling and crazing at the surface. Slower drying layers cause shrinkage which pulls at the surface layers and causes crazing. Wrinkling is more likely to occur over thicker films that thin ones due to the different reaction rates from solvent loss on thick vs. thin layers. Also, MCU is particularly affected by differences in surface dryness. Almost anything foreign on the surface has an effect, glue from tape, oil from skin, moisture buildup from different surface temperatures, painted areas that may not be cured completely, and on and on. MCU tends to cross link with different solvents in different ways so paint thinning solvents can be a problem....or not. Environmental factors come into play, high humidity can cause problems, cool temps can cause problems. For me MCU is too difficult to work with. I'm going elsewhere for a clear coat that I can dip lures into.....I hear concrete sealer looks pretty promising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 boisarc, I think you nailed it on the mechanism of wrinkling. The basic remedy is that you want to prevent MCU from pooling anywhere on the surface of a bait before it has hardened and out-gassed most of its solvents. I've been using MCU several years. Storage problems, yes. Application problems, none. I don't use any solvent based coating underneath the MCU and I make sure the acrylic paint is dried with a hair dryer as I paint the bait. Hang the bait to dry to allow all excess MCU to drip off the tail. Voila - a no muss, no fuss topcoat that looks great on a bass bait and is very durable in a single coat. Ready to fish in a few days after the MCU has cross-linked. It has worked in my garage in any humidity, at temperatures from 45 to 85 F. Are there other good topcoats? Yes! I also regularly use Devcon Two Ton, which is my gold standard for a reliable esthetic appearance. I have Solarez UV cured polyester resin on hand if I want to use it. Do solvent based concrete sealers work? Obviously yes but I feel I have enough choices on hand and I'm leery of the need to use multiple dips and weeks-long cure times. There are lots of topcoat choices these days. All of them work to some degree. You just need to gain experience with the one you choose and work out the "gotchas" that are inherent in all of them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bois d'Arc Posted October 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 Good response BobP and you're right. I know MCU works but the learning curve is killing me . I'll keep using the stuff I have on hand ....too expensive to just dump. Maybe I can find the magic to get a craze free dip every time. Since I'm new to tackle making I'll probably experiment with some other clear coat dips when I can. Just to see if I can find one that's a little more to my liking. Hoping I can get that MCU to behave as I really like the MCU finish when it works for me. Appreciate your knowledge sharing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krash7172 Posted October 16, 2014 Report Share Posted October 16, 2014 If you remove the lure very slowly from MCU, (10 seconds or so) it will draw the excess off. I actually use a drill press to do this. I usually do batches of 10 lures at a time and hang them in a food dehydrator (same as using a hair dryer but with better temp control) to get the MCU to off gas the Toluene (solvent in DN) as quickly as possible. I get perfect results. I even recoat 3 times about 25 mins apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bois d'Arc Posted October 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2014 As it turns out drying the paint is one of the most important things to do before applying MCU. I've done some experimenting and discovered that most of my problems were related to the paint not being completely dry. So after some searching around I found a easy and cheap way to dry the paint before dipping. I took a 16" x 16' x 9" cardboard box and opened the bottom flaps of the box then put it on a 5 gallon paint bucket. Then traced the top of the bucket on the box flaps and cut the rest of the flap away leaving a nice cardboard ring in the shape of the top of the paint bucket. Then took a hairdryer and traced a hole in the top of the box and cut it out so the hairdryer can fit right into hole. Using coat hanger wire cut to fit across the top of the bucket I can hang several lures from wire ties on each piece of coat hanger wire. The cardboard box overlaps the 5 gallon bucket on either side so it vents pretty well and hairdryers come with a built in thermistor so they shut down if they get too hot. I left the newly painted lures to hang dry for about 24-48 hours then gave them about 4 times in the box for about 30 min to an hour each time and then dipped them with no crazing problems at all. I've done this a few times now and it seems to work every time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bois d'Arc Posted November 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2014 Following up on the MCU wrinkling problems. The same problem occurs with MCU and Eagle Supreme concrete sealer. I tried several experiments to identify the problem and fix it here's what I found......I may be repeating some earlier posts so bear with me. I'm using Createx Airbrush Colors paint. Paint in light coats and let your paint air dry then follow up with a heat gun on low to "cure" the paint. Just a little heat goes a long way....don't cook your plastic lures they tend to blow up like a frog on a hot road . Once your pattern is done let it dry for a day or so.....also, you can use the method in the previous entry to this post ....if your in a hurry. Once you are sure the paint is dry dip the lure into one of two things....there may be other products but this is what I've found to work for me....Pledge Floor Care Finish or Minwax Polycrylic Protective Finish. Be sure the Pledge product is the correct one it comes in a clear bottle with "multi surface finish" on the lower left of the front label and "Acrylic Protection!" on the inside back. The other Pledge stuff doesn't work so well . The Minwax stuff comes in a can with a blue label and the words "crystal clear finish" on the label. Let the lure dry overnight (8 hours). I use the heat gun to heat the lure up just a bit ....not sure this is necessary but it makes me feel better anyway . Then dip it into MCU or concrete sealer. Hang it to dry. I usually hang the bill upward....just dab the excess drops off the lower part of the lure after a minute or so and leave it alone for 24hrs. Some folks let it cure for a week...its up to you. Hope this helps someone avoid the ruined paint jobs from wrinkles in the paint and clearcoat. Happy painting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bois d'Arc Posted November 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2014 Just when I thought I had it all worked out........I'm finding the Minwax Polycrylic undercoat has to be very...very....very dry or the topcoat stays soft and MCU/Concrete sealer will chip off. This isn't happening with the Pledge undercoat only Minwax...so far the Pledge then MCU/Concrete sealer is rock solid. Just sayin... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonoman Posted November 19, 2014 Report Share Posted November 19, 2014 I used to have all those same issues but I switched to automotive urethanes and clears...and devcon 2t...no more issues, just be careful with ventilation and know the risks , stuff can be bad news but I like not using hair dryers...lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted November 19, 2014 Report Share Posted November 19, 2014 Just when I thought I had it all worked out........I'm finding the Minwax Polycrylic undercoat has to be very...very....very dry or the topcoat stays soft and MCU/Concrete sealer will chip off. This isn't happening with the Pledge undercoat only Minwax...so far the Pledge then MCU/Concrete sealer is rock solid. Just sayin... Have you tried the AC1315 concrete sealer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobv Posted November 19, 2014 Report Share Posted November 19, 2014 I've been using the same can of DN for 10mo now with no problem. Tap the can is the way to go. One thing about using createx clear to stop wrinkling, make sure to heat set it. I just got a can of AC1315 and tried dipping a freshly done bait with out the protective clear and it wrinkled in seconds almost before I could hang it. It is loaded with Xylene which is a very strong solvent often used as a paint remover. Definitely going to use Createx clear to protect the next try! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 I heat set my Createx and other paints really well as I'm painting, and then let hang them to cool before I dip them. So far, no wrinkling. Of course, now that I say that, all my baits will wrinkle! Hahaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bois d'Arc Posted November 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 Haven't used it yet but I will be buying a quart of AC1315 today. I saw your gallery photos (lures dipped in AC1315) and I'm convinced that I need to give it a try. Great paint patterns by the way! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 Haven't used it yet but I will be buying a quart of AC1315 today. I saw your gallery photos (lures dipped in AC1315) and I'm convinced that I need to give it a try. Great paint patterns by the way! If you're talking about my baits, thanks, but you can see I do minimal painting, and throw a lot of clear/transparent baits, because our water here in SoCal is clear and pressured. Yesterday I dipped half a dozen jerkbaits which I had already painted with Createx and coated with both urethane and nail polish. None had any issues. Be sure your paint is dry and cured for a day, and you should be good to go, unless you're painting in an unheated, cold shop. Then you might have to hit them with a hair dryer before you dip, just to give the AC1315 a head start in the curing process. The bait should stay warm enough that the sealer off-gasses the solvent pretty quickly, which cuts down on the smell. I would move them inside somewhere heated to cure. I wouldn't leave them out in the cold to cure, because I don't know if the chemical reactions involved can really work at low temps. I'm spoiled. Here in SoCal temps seldom get so low that I can't work in my garage. If I know it's going to be cold, I turn a light to shine on the lures hanging above my bench to cure, and that keeps them warm enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imagine_studios Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 kind of jealous right now Mark, been waiting to get out to the "barn" to paint up some of my lures, but when you're averaging temps in the 20s for several days, it puts a damper on painting projects. Dang Ohio winters! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 kind of jealous right now Mark, been waiting to get out to the "barn" to paint up some of my lures, but when you're averaging temps in the 20s for several days, it puts a damper on painting projects. Dang Ohio winters! Man, just reading that gave me a chill! I hope you get a warm break soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bois d'Arc Posted December 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2014 Took Mark Poulson's suggestion and bought a pint of AC1315.....works great, no wrinkles or defects in the finish. So far 12 lures with two dips each and the finish on all of them looks great....not sure how many dips I should do?? Very nice, thanks to Mark for the tip on a great product . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 Took Mark Poulson's suggestion and bought a pint of AC1315.....works great, no wrinkles or defects in the finish. So far 12 lures with two dips each and the finish on all of them looks great....not sure how many dips I should do?? Very nice, thanks to Mark for the tip on a great product . Thanks, but someone else here on TU is the source of the original AC1315 tip. I'm just an early adopter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
