Jdaniel594 Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 Hey guys...I am building my first swimbait out of pvc and after adding the ballast (approx 1 oz) it still floats pretty good. My goal for the bait was to achieve a diving depth of 5-8 feet with a square bill lip. Does anyone have any tips on placement and angle of the lip? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 You call it a swimbait, is it a jointed swimbait? I ask as these do not normally do not have lips. But yes, a lip can be added to get that extra depth. There is more to lips than just the angle of the lip; The length of the lip is important along with the position of the tow eye. A good starting angle would be 30 degrees to the horizontal with the eye in the nose. Make the lip too long and trim it back until you get the depth and swim that you want. It would help others to advise you if you included a photo and told us the length of the lure. Dave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdaniel594 Posted October 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 Thanks for the help....yes it is a 2 joint swimbait roughly 8" long 3" deep 1 " wide and this puppy is floating pretty good with about an ounce of lead in it. I guess I will need to use a different material for a slow sink but I plan on using this one with a lip around rocks so the float would help with possible hang ups in the rocks.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdaniel594 Posted October 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 I cant seem to figure out how to post a picture.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 I cant seem to figure out how to post a picture.... Now THAT I can help you with. Just click on "More Reply Options" in the bottom right corner of the response box. That will open a new page where you can post pictures in the thread. Once the new page opens scroll down and click on "Browse". That will open your computer files where you can select a picture. Once you've selected the picture you want to display click on "Attach This File". If you have any trouble just holler back and will try to help. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdaniel594 Posted October 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdaniel594 Posted October 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 I was using the mobile mode I guess...so had to view the fullsite version to post pic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdaniel594 Posted October 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 That looks as though it would swim nicely without a lip, but of course, you will not get your required depth, so a lip it is then. Having never fitted a lip to a swimbait, I am reluctant to get involved beyond my suggestions above. If no one with the relevent experience jumps in with some advice, then you have to treat this as a first prototype and be prepared to try different things. I can see that you have plans for the carving, but I strongly suggest that you should shelve these ideas for the first proto and save them until you have a working bait. Hopefully you can get all the testing done on this first bait and go all out on the next. The suggestion to make the lip too long and trim back until the bait works, is the way I build. This is very easy with my test tank just outside my workshop, but may not work for you. There is always some water nearby though, be inventive. The attached image would be my starting point. I hope some more experienced advice is forthcoming for you. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 (edited) I also use PVC for jointed swimbaits. Since it is so buoyant, I have found that making the belly thinner than the back by tapering the lure, in my case from 7/8" to 5/8", helps by reducing the amount of buoyant material at the bottom of the lure. I wind up with a V profile, with the back and the top 1/4+- of the lure full size, and the taper going down from there to the belly. I use center lines on my baits to judge symmetry as I taper them, but close is okay. I also use that center line to align my ballast holes. I find that my lures require less ballast that way, and it also keeps them from rolling over when I burn them on a fast pull or retrieve. By the look of you picture (very nice bait, by the way) you still have time to try this before you do you detail carving. But I still have to add more than an ounce of ballast anyway, depending on how big a lure I'm making, and whether it's a floater, suspend, slow sink, or fast sink. I use 1/4" diameter lead wire, which weighs 16 grams/inch, so I can match my test ballasting weight (I use egg sinkers over the tines of the trebles to test ballast my unfinished lures). I add my ballast starting at the head, and move to the second section only if I run out of room in the head. I never add ballast to the tail section, because it kills the swimming action. I hope this helps. Good luck. Edited October 5, 2014 by mark poulson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdaniel594 Posted October 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 Good stuff fellas. Guess ill go test swim this one before I add a lip just to see the action. I hope the lip doesnt kill the swim action. I will work on a second bait for a slow sink prototype and thin the belly out like suggested. Thanks for the help! I will post again after test run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 That looks as though it would swim nicely without a lip, but of course, you will not get your required depth, so a lip it is then. Having never fitted a lip to a swimbait, I am reluctant to get involved beyond my suggestions above. If no one with the relevent experience jumps in with some advice, then you have to treat this as a first prototype and be prepared to try different things. I can see that you have plans for the carving, but I strongly suggest that you should shelve these ideas for the first proto and save them until you have a working bait. Hopefully you can get all the testing done on this first bait and go all out on the next. The suggestion to make the lip too long and trim back until the bait works, is the way I build. This is very easy with my test tank just outside my workshop, but may not work for you. There is always some water nearby though, be inventive. The attached image would be my starting point. I hope some more experienced advice is forthcoming for you. Dave20141004_233647A.jpg I would look at commercial lipped swimbaits that dive to the depth you want, and use that lip angle and size as a starting point. I've added lips to lure that didn't swim well, and that solved the problem. The closer to 90 degrees from the horizontal centerline of the bait you lip sits at, the shallower it will run, all the way to a wake bait with an 85 degree lip. Since you said 5-8' is the depth you're shooting for, I'd look at something close to 45 degrees. Anything more than that, closer to parallel with that centerline, and you'll probably have to put the line tie in the bill itself, which is a lot more finicky to do correctly. Here's one, made by a TU member, that works, and would be a good starting point as a reference for both lip angle and size: http://www.tacklewarehouse.com/Bettencourt_Baits_Dying_Trout/descpage-BBDT.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdaniel594 Posted October 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 I installed the lip yesterday (approx 30 degrees) and gave it a test run at a lake close by. It has a great swimming action and seems to dive to around 6-8 feet. The best part is that I can still slow roll it on the surface as a wake bait. I am going to get it painted soon. Now I just hope it holds up to a big stripe or spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 (edited) Sounds like a good result. Post another picture, this will help others in the future. Dave Edit - oops! you already did - good job There is more depth available to you if you want it, just make the lip longer. You could make several lips at 1/4" increments and wedge them in for swim tests. Dave Edited October 7, 2014 by Vodkaman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
token12 Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 I installed the lip yesterday (approx 30 degrees) and gave it a test run at a lake close by. It has a great swimming action and seems to dive to around 6-8 feet. The best part is that I can still slow roll it on the surface as a wake bait. I am going to get it painted soon. Now I just hope it holds up to a big stripe or spot. I am curious about the caudal fin (tail), what did you use to make it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdaniel594 Posted October 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 I used 3 weed guard protectors that I had left over from making some jigs. I am a little concerned about the long term durability but it seems to be very functional and durable for now. Guess well see after a few strikes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
token12 Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 (edited) I have a Bull shad swim bait that has a tail with a soft material and it has held up to some giants. Over all your swim bait looks awesome. I think the tail will be fine, of all the strikes I have had on the bull shad, majority of the fish have hit it right in the middle of the bait. If you plan on selling in the future, i'll def purchase one from you if you can make a slow sink model. Edited October 8, 2014 by token12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
