gone2long Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 I'm reading threads in the archives about BLO and it seems that most have had some type of issue be it yellowing over time, affecting the paint and so forth I was thinking that since I may toss a few of the these in the salt that I would do a hybrid, I was thinking to seal the internal holes for the wire and the grommet holes I would plug the ends of the through hole fill the grommet holes which would also channel the BLO down the wire race and let sit for some time then dump out let dry and then seal exterior with epoxy, any thoughts? or maybe dip in BLO let dry and use epoxy on top before paint? Just trying to avoid the yellowing issue since I don't get down the surf that often heck by the time I use these baits they may already have yellowed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAWGFAN Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 If by "BLO", you mean Boiled Linseed Oil, I suspect there are lots of options out there that you'd be happier with. A slow cure epoxy can be used for your seal and top coat. Envirotex Lite is thinner, and will require two coats for the top coat step. I like Devcon 2 ton. Bob Smith is also recommended, but I have no experience with it. You can use 5 minute epoxies in your assembly, but make sure it's under the seal and paint. It will yellow fairly quickly. If you need something very runny, a Urethane (Dick Nite MCU or concrete sealer), water based no mix epoxy, or even a thin super glue will dry more consistently for you. My experience with oil finishes is that they yellow, and can be slow to fully cure. If you must use an oil, use Tru Oil by Birchwood Casey. It is a highly refined linseed oil. It dries reliably in 24 hours, but will also yellow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gone2long Posted October 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 Yeah my thinking is I want to seal/protect the inside portions of the plug, the thru wire and the points where the swivels connect and dipping seems the logical way. Will I still have a yellowing issue if I seal the wood with Etex after the BLO kinda like an intercoat clear? I do have a quart of Dupont concrete sealer I could dip in just wasn't sure how that would hold up to salt water? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 Yeah my thinking is I want to seal/protect the inside portions of the plug, the thru wire and the points where the swivels connect and dipping seems the logical way. Will I still have a yellowing issue if I seal the wood with Etex after the BLO kinda like an intercoat clear? I do have a quart of Dupont concrete sealer I could dip in just wasn't sure how that would hold up to salt water? Not to beat a dead horse, but have you thought about using PVC instead of wood? All your water intrusion worries are gone with it, since it is totally waterproof and buoyant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gone2long Posted October 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 Actually I haven't Mark these are not hand made by me but kits from Salty's and their quite large in comparison to bass baits. I have done some reading on through wire and it's seems quite clear that if you don't protect the inside portions of the bait that your exterior finish is likely to fail over time as water intrusion from the inside will eventually creap in. Dipping seems to be the only rational way to get protection from the inside, I have thought about possibly sealing the penetrations by hand but the design of the bait kinda limits that and I won't get a complete seal. I goiing to put them in a zip lock bag and pour in the concrete sealer and swish them around to get it into the slots and holes then let them air dry for 24 hours then proceed with the standard seal, paint and top coat I now have my Bob Smith epoxy so that's the route i'm going in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 Actually I haven't Mark these are not hand made by me but kits from Salty's and their quite large in comparison to bass baits. I have done some reading on through wire and it's seems quite clear that if you don't protect the inside portions of the bait that your exterior finish is likely to fail over time as water intrusion from the inside will eventually creap in. Dipping seems to be the only rational way to get protection from the inside, I have thought about possibly sealing the penetrations by hand but the design of the bait kinda limits that and I won't get a complete seal. I goiing to put them in a zip lock bag and pour in the concrete sealer and swish them around to get it into the slots and holes then let them air dry for 24 hours then proceed with the standard seal, paint and top coat I now have my Bob Smith epoxy so that's the route i'm going in. Good luck. Let us know how it holds up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking 56 Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 Could you not cut the bait in half after you drilled the thru wire holes and seal it that way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty's Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 G2L There is a lengthy piece on my forum about sealing. Would suggest you read it before you do anything. BLO is not the best to seal with and 24 hours is much too short of a time for a drying oil like this. Add another 72 hours minimum and then check it by feeling it. If the surface feels cold it's not dry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gone2long Posted October 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 Thank you I did find it on your site, good read I just need to narrow down what sealer to use, I like epoxy as the final top coat so I'll do a little more reading to make sure whatever I use does not react with epoxy. Still in the build process of the drying wheel so I only work with one bait at a time and hand rotate in 5-10 minute intervals to prevent pooling so far so good. Could you not cut the bait in half after you drilled the thru wire holes and seal it that way? Funny that you mention that as while I was reading gobs of info I found salty's thread on it and a cut away of a plug that was properly sealed and you can clearly see the penetration, but no the plugs are CNC machined round and I surely don't want to wreck that handy work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky Glenn Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 To insure a complete seal from moisture, it really helps to apply any finish to a smooth surface. One of the roughest places to apply finish is inside of a hole. They are always rough and have relative high and low spots. Any rubbing of wire against these high spots tends to wear the sealer off. I would also agree with Salty about the quality of finish of BLO, poor choice for durability. Probably the best way to seal the hole would be with a copper or Stainless Steel tube glued inside the lure for the wire to run through. This could be glued in place and sealed nicely at each end or glued all the way through. Hook hangers in the middle would be a problem that could be worked out. To end all of these problems would be to do as Mark Poulson suggest and use PVC, that ends all these problems. But if you are going to build with wood and have a wire that rotates inside of the wood, consider filling the hole completely with d2t, inserting a piece of scrap wire to swirl around to make sure the epoxy is completely sealing the entire length of hole. Remove as much of the epoxy with the scrap wire and continue with the build process. If it is a lure that the wire doesn't rotate, just fill the hole with d2t and leave it full with the wire inside. Wood only shrinks/swells by taking on/loosing moisture. If you want to check quality of seal, just seal inside and outside before you do anything else to the lure, sink it under water overnight. Check it the next morning for cracks, sure way to see the quality of your seal. I love building lures out of wood, even if pvc probably is the better choice. It is hard to beat epoxies for sealing wood. Don't let the problems limit you from using wood, just test and see how good your seals really are. If you solve this problem, the rest of the build is easy. Good Luck, Musky Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Posted October 9, 2014 Report Share Posted October 9, 2014 I've never built a through wire bait but have tied a lot of " Tube Flies" and that gave me a idea.Why not dip your baits in concrete sealer for about 5 minutes to seal the inside.Let it dry a few days then insert hollow plastic tubing through the hole for your wire to pass through.If you make it a tight fit you could glue the tubing in with a little epoxy that would keep all water out from the wood.Any water that would pass through the bait would pass through the plastic tubing and the tubing would provide protection from the interior of the wood from the wire...Nathan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gone2long Posted October 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2014 That's where I'm leaning putting them in a ziplock bag and pour in concrete sealer and let them baste for 5 minutes dry then coat exterior with an under coat of D2T scuff paint and final top coat makes for a rock hard finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Posted October 9, 2014 Report Share Posted October 9, 2014 You may want to rethink the ziplock bag..I think the concrete sealer will eat it up....You may want to pour a little in a bag without a bait first and see how it goes..Nathan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gone2long Posted October 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2014 Good suggestion I've used acrylic based dealer but didn't consider lacquer based well do that thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted October 10, 2014 Report Share Posted October 10, 2014 Years ago I was searching for a penetrating wood sealer and protector, and found this product: http://hardwareonlinestore.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&view=productdetails&virtuemart_product_id=9003&virtuemart_category_id=15602&gclid=Cj0KEQjwh96hBRCnsefbvZrKrpcBEiQAF7oMdBv7C3AHswxkpCcjn_YHwfeoYLtXqc5ZNtuywqkIl0IaAlUX8P8HAQ It does penetrate and seal well. I found that soaking my lures in it for ten minutes, or until the bubbles stopped appearing, was plenty. Longer than that, and it penetrated so deeply that it's own solvents wound up being trapped in the wood, and would bubble my heat set paints. I found the way to test for "ready to paint" was to hit the unpainted lure with a hair dryer, especially on the end grain. Once it stopped bubbling, I knew it was okay to start painting. For rattle can paints it was no problem, since there was no heat involved in the paint process. If I were using it on a through wire bait, I'd pass a loose fitting wire or string through the bore hole several times when the bait was soaking, to be sure to wet the entire shaft channel. There are other things available. If you google wood restorer you'll find some water based stuff, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty's Posted October 11, 2014 Report Share Posted October 11, 2014 All the good stuff is gone. EPA killed it all. Best stuff was made by Behr. Gone. Infinite shelf life. Mark watch out for that Minwax stuff it's nasty and will make your balls turn greenish blue yellow and fall off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted October 12, 2014 Report Share Posted October 12, 2014 All the good stuff is gone. EPA killed it all. Best stuff was made by Behr. Gone. Infinite shelf life. Mark watch out for that Minwax stuff it's nasty and will make your balls turn greenish blue yellow and fall off. Glad the ex didn't know that or she would have been putting it in my corn flakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty's Posted October 12, 2014 Report Share Posted October 12, 2014 Oh she did....it was the glaze on the chicken all those years roflmao Glad the ex didn't know that or she would have been putting it in my corn flakes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted October 12, 2014 Report Share Posted October 12, 2014 So funny Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty's Posted October 12, 2014 Report Share Posted October 12, 2014 Hi Dave hope all is well! Seriously though be very careful with that Minwax stuff. It is Toluene based. It's a very small molecule and is easily absorbed through your skin. It causes all kind of gnarly things in your central nervous system. You can become very easily hypersensitized to this. It works well for rapid prototyping. Needs several dips separated by 12 hours or so to make wood totally waterproof. Doesn't play well with paints either... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted October 12, 2014 Report Share Posted October 12, 2014 Oh she did....it was the glaze on the chicken all those years roflmao Now I gotta go find a mirror and see how the boys are doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonister Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 I use the wood hardener. I use a long wire and some vise grips-it eats cheap gloves... after hearing these warnings ill be more careful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted October 13, 2014 Report Share Posted October 13, 2014 I didn't have any baits yellow, but I used to hit them hard with a hair dryer first, until all the hardener stops bubbling out of the end grain, and then let them hand another day before painting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
