Reducer

[OsageJoe]

Confused on reducers.. it seems like there is a lot of them (Auto air, wicked, etc). Am I better off using a reducer vs just plain water? I would like to reduce the tip dry I have with the acrylic paints. I use plain createx transparent and opaque paints and acrylic craft paints.

 

I use Dick nite for a topcoat if that makes any difference.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

[Skeeter]

Reducer for paint is used to slow down the drying (flashing) process. I really don't understand the use of reducer when water is used as a thinner. My experience with reducers are for lacquer paint. However, I have seen thinners and reducers that are sold for Auto Air and Wicked paints. I really do not know what is in them. Perhaps they say on the bottles. I haven't bought or used any water based anything in over 10 years. My thought is that if you use the thinners that are designed for those paints then the reducer can help. If you use just plain water I don't think there is anything to gain. I believe that water works for those paints as a thinner, but I do believe that the manufacturers thinners would produce much better results. But the one word that I hear on this site over and over is "CHEAP". Sometimes that is just not the way to go because your result looks that way too. I would go to the manufacturers site and see if they sell thinners and reducers in larger quantities. You could use the thinners for mixing and spraying the paint and then use hot soapy water to clean the gun of water based paints.

 

I use reducers with lacquer for several different things:

1. To aleviate the problem of grainy paint sprays.

2. To make some paint colors more translucent.

3. To help control overspray.

 

However, remember that different brands of paint may be affected by reducer in different ways. You just have to get in there and use it. For use with lacquer I am very sparing with reducer. For instance, if I mix my paint with thinner 3:1 (3 parts paint and 1 part thinner) and I start with 12 drops of paint, 4 drops of thinner, then I would (usually) add 1 or 2 drops of reducer.

 

Have you ever seen where the scales show through the back stripe on the back of a bait? This is enhanced by using reducers. It helps make certain paint colors more translucent. Have you ever seen a paint job that looks like the color is deep? That is caused by shooting layer after layer of thinned reduced paint. That is one way to achieve that affect. On my first attempt at this the paint was so reduced that the first pass with the airbrush using black paint on a back stripe hardly showed. You have to let the paint flash before the next shoot. 32 coats later it was finished. The results were that of a show car. That stripe looked a mile deep. Choice of base coats can make a big difference in the outcome too.

 

Your problem with the paint drying on the tip is caused from shooting more air than paint through the gun. We call it dry shooting. The paint is almost dry as soon as it hits the bait. Try either cutting down the air pressure or thinning the paint a little more.

 

All of this is probably more than you wanted to know. But it is hardly talked about on the site. Used properly, a reducer can really enhance your paint jobs. Hope all of this helps some.

 

Skeeter

[OsageJoe]

Thank you for the reply..I believe on the createx bottle is says to thin with 5608 illustration base....It's just hard to find in town. I guess I should try that. There are so many different ones it's just confusing to me honestly.

 

Maybe I'm getting thinner and reducer mixed up? heck i don't know.

[Skeeter]

To make it simple brother..... forget the reducer. You do not need it for your problem. However, I would choose a brand of paint and use the manufacturers' thinner. Go with Auto Air and/or Wicked and really learn to shoot it. It is high quality paint and comes in a lot of colors. Contact the manufacturer on where to get the thinner.

 

Skeeter

[BobP]

12oz distilled water

4oz denatured alcohol

4oz ammonia free glass cleaner

10 drops of glycerin

 

The above is a reducer formula that many Createx shooters like.  Auto Air paint has its own reducer - 4011.  It thins Auto Air paint and says it shortens the drying time somewhat, so I doubt it would help with tip drying.  Maybe I'm just lazy but I rarely if ever thin acrylic latex airbrush paint, including Createx.  Many of the colors I use are taxidermy paints that come pre-reduced. 

[HAWGFAN]

OsageJoe, here's my 2 cents on thinning and reducing Createx paints, for what it's worth.  Water will definitely thin your paint.  It makes a very poor reducer, in my opinion.  The problem is that you start to lose adhesion very quickly.  I've experimented with water, and have always been disappointed with the results.  You'll be much better served using a product with some viscosity.  This way, you can thin the paint, prevent tip dry, and add transparency without making the paint too runny.  Createx transparent or illustration base should give you good results.  I exclusively use Pledge Floor Care Finish.  It sounds crazy, but I'm not alone.  The stuff sprays really nicely, mixed with paint in any ratio I've tried.  Add a drop or two to thin, or as much as you want to reduce.  It's also only around $8 for a bottle that will last for years.  Many times my mixture is probably only around 10 percent paint, when I need a very transparent color.  It helps with tip dry, makes your paints cure better, and even has pleasant odor.  

[gone2long]

Using brand specific reducer helps with film strength water will break that down, now does that apply to how we use these paints not sure but I don't take the chance 5608 illustration base is a little misleading as it is a solvent based reducer for the standard createx line and works well.

[Jaw]

OsageJoe, here's my 2 cents on thinning and reducing Createx paints, for what it's worth. Water will definitely thin your paint. It makes a very poor reducer, in my opinion. The problem is that you start to lose adhesion very quickly. I've experimented with water, and have always been disappointed with the results. You'll be much better served using a product with some viscosity. This way, you can thin the paint, prevent tip dry, and add transparency without making the paint too runny. Createx transparent or illustration base should give you good results. I exclusively use Pledge Floor Care Finish. It sounds crazy, but I'm not alone. The stuff sprays really nicely, mixed with paint in any ratio I've tried. Add a drop or two to thin, or as much as you want to reduce. It's also only around $8 for a bottle that will last for years. Many times my mixture is probably only around 10 percent paint, when I need a very transparent color. It helps with tip dry, makes your paints cure better, and even has pleasant odor.

[Jaw]

Not trying to change the subject but does the pledge floor care cause any issues when cleaning your airbrush? I've read about people using it and even bought a bottle but have been reluctant to try it

[HAWGFAN]

Not trying to change the subject but does the pledge floor care cause any issues when cleaning your airbrush? I've read about people using it and even bought a bottle but have been reluctant to try it

I've never had any issues.  It does contain an acrylic that drys to a hard shine.  I flush with water, then airbrush cleaner between colors, and have never noticed a buildup.  I've heard of guys shooting it straight, as a type of pre clear coat.  I believe this was to protect certain designs, signatures, etc. from attack by certain top coats.  I've never tried it without paint added.  I don't believe it drys very fast at room temperatures.  It does respond very well to a hair dryer.  Adhesion is even better if you'll warm up your bait before you spray.

[Jaw]

Thanks for the reply I'll have to give it a shot when I get back to tinkering around in the shop

[gone2long]

I've sprayed it straight never had a problem, I use it as an inner coat clear.

[BobP]

I tried the Pledge "Tile and Vinyl Floor Finish" and it sprays nicely.  It's a clear acrylic latex finish that when used as a thinner for paint creates a paint film that is harder and stronger than just the typical paint by itself.  The downside is that it dries very hard and you don't want any of it remaining anywhere in the airbrush, including the barrel and the barrel packing nut.  I let that happen once and it welded the needle in the packing nut, requiring pliers and a strong pull to break the needle loose.  Yes, the Pledge does have a nice fragrance, at least to us humans.  Do bass like it?  No idea.

 

One caution I have about various thinners, reducers, etc is about when to mix them with paint.  It's best to mix in small batches immediately before spraying.  Some of the stuff I've tried, including Pledge, occasionally caused all of the paint pigment to fall to the bottom of the bottle during storage, forming a sludge that would not re-mix.  It only happened in a couple of cases with specific colors and brands of paint (can't remember which) but it's something to watch out for.

 

Acrylic paint creates a weak film that requires strong topcoats to protect it.  If you have trouble with acrylic paint adhesion - say maybe your topcoat contains a strong solvent that tends to wrinkle acrylic paint - the Pledge is a good way to reinforce the paint to resist wrinkling, either used as a reducer or applied separately over your color.

 

There's never any free lunch.  All finish products have pluses and minuses so you have to try them and experiment to find which combinations work best for you.

[goolies]

OsageJoe, here's my 2 cents on thinning and reducing Createx paints, for what it's worth.  Water will definitely thin your paint.  It makes a very poor reducer, in my opinion.  The problem is that you start to lose adhesion very quickly.  I've experimented with water, and have always been disappointed with the results.  You'll be much better served using a product with some viscosity.  This way, you can thin the paint, prevent tip dry, and add transparency without making the paint too runny.  Createx transparent or illustration base should give you good results.  I exclusively use Pledge Floor Care Finish.  It sounds crazy, but I'm not alone.  The stuff sprays really nicely, mixed with paint in any ratio I've tried.  Add a drop or two to thin, or as much as you want to reduce.  It's also only around $8 for a bottle that will last for years.  Many times my mixture is probably only around 10 percent paint, when I need a very transparent color.  It helps with tip dry, makes your paints cure better, and even has pleasant odor.  

HAWGFAN, What size airbrush tip are you spraying with?

Thanks.

[HAWGFAN]

Iwata Neo CN, .35mm tip

[goolies]

Iwata Neo CN, .35mm tip

Thanks.  I'm using an Eclipse with a .35 tip.  Createx recommends a .5 tip and I was considering the larger tip since I have flow problems with some of their colors.  From what has been discussed in this thread it sounds like I should purchase some of the Createx transparent base and/or illustration base or Pledge.

[OsageJoe]

Thanks guys!

[Bois d'Arc]

Go to the Createx web site and read the technical doc's on the application of their paint.  They speak directly to the use of water as a thinner, as well as the use of Illustration base and reducer for their paint lines.  My opinion....everybody has at least one ...use whatever the manufacture of the paint suggests for their specific paint lines to thin/reduce their paint.

[Chuck Young]

I custom mix many colors using Createx paints. I often blend these in advance and spray these directly from a bottle. What can i use for a thinner that will store well. I am not impressed with the water & Pledge mix. The brand reducer says to use it within an hour or so. How well does the water / alcohol / glass cleaner / glycerin mix store?

[gone2long]

I think you have the answer in your question, as a whole it's better to reduce at time of use as most will flash off over time or create adverse affects with the paint even in a tightly sealed bottle.

[Chuck Young]

Thanks, I suspected that is the case.

[SW Lures]

For my two cents, other then thick opaque paints and maybe some colors of pearls you don't need to reduce. Like Skeeter stated, it's mostly your pressure vs paint flow in my opinion. I use the reducer that is recommended by the paint manufacture that I'm using, when I do.

That's just me,

Dale