Glide Bait Blues....bait Tends To Roll

[Jdaniel594]

Need some wisdom about glide bait design. This bait has 3 oz of weight distributed evenly across belly and is currently slow sinking. The action is a wide "s" on slow retrieve (wider than I want). The bait wants to 180 on the pause.The bait also rolls slightly at slow retrieve but wants to roll and plain out at medium to fast retrieve. The roll is also causing the bait to rise a bit. I thought I read some where that thin deep baits were not good for glide style swim baits. I also made the front section shorter than back section. Any suggesstions on....

A. How to obtain a more subdued "s" action on retreive and ultimately on glide.

B. How to prevent the tendency of bait to roll and plain out.

Thanks for any help!

[Jdaniel594]

Sketch of current action and desired action...

[Anglinarcher]

I am quite sure that others will respond, but I will offer my input. 

 

First, I find that if the front section is longer the S-Action is reduced, less head action.

 

Second, keeping the center of balance as low as possible is important at reducing roll.  Reducing the S-Action also reduces roll.

 

Third, placing the line tie above the center of the bait helps to reduce roll some.

 

Forth, it is like dancing on the edge of a razor blade.  Two much of any of the above and you will fall off, but even if all is wright, you might still get sliced and diced.  jointed swim baits are tough.

 

If you can post a video of the action, then maybe we can help a little bit more.  Still, I suspect that if you increase the front length a little, just a little, and maybe make a brass line tie so you can easily bend it up or down to adjust, you will probably get the action you want.

 

Good luck.

[Vodkaman]

Nice shape and proportions. What you describe is the perfect action for this kind of bait, you have managed to get the maximum action out of the bait. This is confirmed by the 180 turn on the pause. This is caused by the last vortex acting on the bait.

 

In my opinion, the roll is caused by the joint being too tight. It is a very tidy joint, but if the joint touches during the swim, the joint will freeze and the force from the vortex will push the bait over (roll).

 

Correct, deep swimmers create such large vortex turbulence, that prevents the glide. Gliders, which are beyond my personal experience, are generally one piece and torpedo shaped. They use the same water forces, but the shape greatly reduces the force. Apply a twitch and the vortex sets the direction of the bait. The bait then glides beyond the effects of the vortex. The next twitch always reverses the direction.

 

If you want to stay with the two piece, you will have to reduce the efficiency of the swim. Increasing the front length ratio to 2:1. A lot of trial and error work ahead. Another thing to play with is the nose position. Yours is currently central, try a high or a low nose. A more rounded forehead section will help too.

 

Dave

[mark poulson]

I eliminated the roll on my jointed swimbaits by tapering them from 7/8" at the shoulders to 5/8"+- at the belly.  Less buoyant material down lower, plus ballast as low as possible, works for me.

But I haven't made a glider that I like....yet.

[Jdaniel594]

Thanks for the input guys. To follow up on some resposes....this is actually the second glide I made. The first one I made was the same profile but the joint was further back probably the 2:1 ratio suggested. But the bait didnt swim at all. it just swam strait through the water. So I will probably try to move the joint a little further back but not as far back as before. I am anxious to test the joint spacing as sugggested. I closed up the joint thinking that would reduce the action or degree of the turn bit it does seem like it does get frozen in the turn until the force of the line pulls it back the opposite direction. The profile was supposed to be a gizzard but I made the nose less blount so the bait could resemble other profiles too but not its not that important to me. I would rather stick with the gizzard profile. So I guess Ill start making the easy adjustments on this bait to see what changes. Ill repost after some trial and error. Thanks again.

[mark poulson]

You're definitely on the right track.

When I want to figure out ratios for new jointed baits, I look at some successful commercial baits to use as a starting point.

I also look at their "face" profiles, and line tie attachments, to give me a starting point.

[DaveG]

I would suggest weighting the lure more at the extremes than evenly, so some at the front as far as you can get, same at the back end with a tendency to sink head down.

[mark poulson]

I was thinking the bait should sink level.  Am I wrong (again)?

[token12]

I'm no expert, 

 

I was thinking the bait should sink level.  Am I wrong (again)?

I'm no expert on glide or swim baits, but majority of the swim baits that I have fished, they all sink with the head down.  Before making or adding any additional weight to the head, try rubber banding additional weight to the head and test it out.  Again I am no expert. As said above, its a lot of trial and error. 

[Musky Glenn]

When I think of a glide bait, I think of a sinking lure that will walk the dog under water. To that end, I can't think of a factory made two part lure that is designed to do that. I could have forgotten about some but all mine are one part. Musky Glenn

[Vodkaman]

Definitely on the right track.

 

Try to limit to one change at a time. This way you find and learn the actual solution.

 

Dave

[Ichthus]

Musky glenn, i believe he is talking about glide baits that have the action of 2 piece baits like the River2Sea S-waver. These are sometimes called glide baits as well.

[Rowhunter]

An S waver may be called a glide bait, however it is fished as a swim bait with a slow steady swimming retrieve. A proper glide bait retrieve is a twitch and pause, the pause being the long glide portion of the lures action. Most Musky glides are one piece torpedo , sucker ,perch or shad shaped, weighted near both ends to sink at around one foot per second , slightly head down. I have made some bluegill shaped glides that work well, but tend to have a shorter glide and a much sharper turn. A working glide bait will have a nice swim on a steady retrieve, but a swim bait has a lousy, short glide.

 

   Douglas

[Jdaniel594]

Well this would be considered an "S Waver" swim bait.

I have solved the roll issue. The reason was weight placement. The 2 weights at the far front and back were to high inside the bait causing the ballast to fail above a slow speed. As far as the action goes.....the bait has a wide "s" pattern on retrieve. I can get a sexy tight darting walk the dog action twitching the rod on retrieve which I like but I think moving the joint back a bit will tighten up the "S" pattern a bit and add to the glide on pause. I will post a video in a day or so.

[mark poulson]

Well this would be considered an "S Waver" swim bait.

I have solved the roll issue. The reason was weight placement. The 2 weights at the far front and back were to high inside the bait causing the ballast to fail above a slow speed. As far as the action goes.....the bait has a wide "s" pattern on retrieve. I can get a sexy tight darting walk the dog action twitching the rod on retrieve which I like but I think moving the joint back a bit will tighten up the "S" pattern a bit and add to the glide on pause. I will post a video in a day or so.

 

Great!  Thanks for sharing how you've solved your problem, and your build in general.

Does you bait sink head down, or level?

[Jdaniel594]

It has a slight nose down fall.

[mark poulson]

It has a slight nose down fall.

 

Thanks.