llokkii Posted December 24, 2014 Report Share Posted December 24, 2014 Just happened to see that Bagley was making a crankbait that had a balsa core they sheathed with plastic resin. Not sure when they offered this since I don't usually use Bagley baits for any of the species I fish. It got me to thinking I might be able to do the same thing with my resin cast baits instead of using microballoons, and thus save any mixing problems I might encounter while using them. An additional benefit might also be the amount of resin I would have to use would decrease due to the volume of balsa I would have to use to achieve my neutral bouyancy or optimally making the cranks float.The downside is I would have to make a through wire jig to fit into my crankbait molds and adhere the balsa to the wire. Not a huge deal. I don't think it would weaken the bait too much. I am just a little leary of it affecting the cure time. Still, its something I want to try. Have to create a spreadsheet and track some items until I can arrive at the perfect combination. Length of balsa, thickness of balsam bait sink rates, wire size, hook weights etc.So, since I haven't went through all the posts on this site yet, anyone ever try this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdeee Posted December 24, 2014 Report Share Posted December 24, 2014 Depending on the core size it will probably weaken the resin. I tried adding small styrofoam balls into the mix once and the bait came out looking great, until lucky one day I dropped it and it broke into a few pieces before I started to sell them. It will snap or crack at the weakest spots because the resin will not bind to the wood. Don't forget Bagley or any other commercial manufacterer doesn't pour resin they inject a very hard plastic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llokkii Posted December 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 25, 2014 Interesting. Hadn't looked at it from that angle. Looks like I am going to have to approach it differently then. Thanks for the info. Saved me some serious time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglinarcher Posted December 25, 2014 Report Share Posted December 25, 2014 Jdeee is right on the target on this one. Hard plastic or not, I am pretty sure that Bagley will have problems with broken lures, but then again, all lures break sooner or later, so .......... for a big company this is probably not a big issue. Yes, I have done some work with balsa inserts, but the truth is that it is easier for me to form a resin shell and fill with foam. It works quite well for me and I don't need to worry about the troubles of getting my inserts perfectly placed each time so the balance remains consistent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llokkii Posted December 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2014 You must have been reading my mind. I was just thinking along those lines myself...I have an extra mold I was thinking about using for this....Will have to look into it more towards spring. Finally got my shipment of thermal PETG plastic so for the next few days I'll be making templates to get more consistency to the paint jobs on my baits. Been working with my art program and a lure diagram to get these designs made. Ought to be a good time. Any particular foam you are using for this by chance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglinarcher Posted December 27, 2014 Report Share Posted December 27, 2014 I have access to the Alumilite foams so that is what I use. The Alumifoam is tough so I don't use it as a fill but use it by itself. For the fills I use 610 foam (expands 10 times it's original volume and weights ~6 pounds per cubic foot). I find the 320 is too soft for my purpose but the 610 is about as tough as balsa. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted December 27, 2014 Report Share Posted December 27, 2014 I have access to the Alumilite foams so that is what I use. The Alumifoam is tough so I don't use it as a fill but use it by itself. For the fills I use 610 foam (expands 10 times it's original volume and weights ~6 pounds per cubic foot). I find the 320 is too soft for my purpose but the 610 is about as tough as balsa. Do you dip the core in something, once you've poured it, to give it a hard surface? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglinarcher Posted December 27, 2014 Report Share Posted December 27, 2014 No, I pour a resin shell and keep it rotating so that the resin is forced to the exterior while it sets up. For something like Alumilite White, by the time I pour and rotate it, it only takes a couple of minutes. Because it sets up fast enough in that short of time, I rotate it by hand so that the resin goes in all surfaces. I then clean out the pour holes while it is still soft and then I add the foam. Because the foam expands 10 times, it does not take a lot of foam liquid, but I want a little extra. I pour, again quickly rotate to get all surfaces coated, then let it expand out the pour holds. Wait to cure, pull from mold, trim, fill holes and seal, proceed as normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted December 27, 2014 Report Share Posted December 27, 2014 Sounds like a good system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llokkii Posted December 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2014 Im definitely going to have to check that foam out. Thanks for the food for thought. Got the wheels turning. When I get some more free time I am definitely going to try this. Sounds exactly what I am looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglinarcher Posted December 28, 2014 Report Share Posted December 28, 2014 It work pretty well. It is consistent, gives great detail, enables me to adjust weighting or rattles, or ....... Still, I am not what you would call an "artist": much work to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llokkii Posted December 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2014 I don't know. Seen your baits. Look like an artist to me. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted December 28, 2014 Report Share Posted December 28, 2014 Yes, a spreadsheet is the way to go. If you know all the volumes and densities, you can accurately predict the results and figure if it is worth it. I tried it many years ago, I just remember that there was not as much density reduction as I was hoping for. Far more to gain from molding a hollow bait, as the shape of the hollow can be much more efficient than a dowel insert. Even just inserting a dowel, I remember it being a lot of work, probably alignment. I also tried a kind of manual hand spin casting. That didn't work out either, as once the resin starts to turn, it gels quite fast and tended to lump up in one place. I would describe my effort more as roll casting than spin casting. These are all good valid ideas, they just need figuring out and refining to get them to work efficiently. I didn't put the time in to figure them out. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglinarcher Posted December 28, 2014 Report Share Posted December 28, 2014 Dave, it does take the right resin to roll cast for sure. The Al white cures fast enough but does not flash so I don't get the lumps. Other brands I tried flashed and I got lumps like you did. Of course I have not tried all brands, and every country has access to different products, so ........ Like Dave suggest, "just need figuring out and refining" to get it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted December 29, 2014 Report Share Posted December 29, 2014 AA - thanks for that input. I didn't take it further as it was obviously not going anywhere. It is encouraging that there are resins with a slower transition. My next step was to design a multi axis rotator, probably driven by a car wiper motor, but the first prototype would have been a hand crank. Still cannot post from FireFox. Now taking this text across ti IE, what a pain. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llokkii Posted December 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2014 Foam...microballoons...balsa cores...waterdrop technique...Any other techniques available to help achieve a relative consistent bouyancy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llokkii Posted December 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2014 Still thinking about this a lot. Plan on doing some experimentation later next week after my crazy work shifts end. Will post some results when I have them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted December 30, 2014 Report Share Posted December 30, 2014 Looking forward to your feedback, as are many more I suspect. A very interesting thread. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llokkii Posted December 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 Came up with an interesting potential alternative, although I know that the buoyancy will be nowhere near the same as balsa. This alternative is something walleye fishermen would be very familiar with...The styrofoam line floats for their floating worm harnesses. http://www.jannsnetcraft.com/bait-rig-floats/315200.aspxJust looking at them, they look like they will fit the bill quite nicely. They tend to have decent bouyancy, plus they are designed to be threaded on fishing line. And where you can thread something with fishing line, you can modify it to accept wire of a specific diameter. As I stated before, they won't have the float of balsa, but I think a person could get two or three of these threaded onto a wire through system and get them positioned in the same spot every time to get some decent float.Maybe someone has already tried this with resin cast baits. If so, I'd be interested to hear the results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdeee Posted December 31, 2014 Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 (edited) You can probably find 1/4" to 1/2" styrofoam balls at a good sized dollar store for much less than those ( 1000 balls for a dollar ). If not try craft stores. They are used to fill glass vase for flower arrangements and stuff like that. It's not any harder to thread them on a wire. If I was to do this I would make sure not to place any to close to the front or tail of the bait or it will crack or snap. Edited December 31, 2014 by Jdeee 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llokkii Posted December 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2014 Cool info. I will look into that. My wife may have some around the house too. The only reason I mentioned the walleye floats is because I have tons of them handy. Its walleye country here in my neck of the woods LOLWe're on the same page with the float placement. I want to draw up a rough sketch of a minnow bait and start tracking where the float placement is best for buoyancy and lure action. Since I have a little time off here for the next day or two, I have to build a wire form jig to try this. Wish I had an aquarium to take some side photos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
