spoonpluggergino Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 I have been trying to find the right DuPont auto clear to clear coat my baits. Most website are very confusing, is anyone here using DuPont auto clear that I could get some info on the right auto clear. I do use some time Finish1 its okay but not great, I spray it with an Harbor freight AB, maybe I need to spray several coats. I only do auto clear in the summer, when I can use the garage and not worry about the paint fumes Gino Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 I stopped using auto clear because to get the really good ones you had to dig pretty deep into your wallet. I had auto clear to fail on me after catching just a few fish on one particular bait and it had about 5 coats on it. And these were bass that I was catching when it failed. Can't remember the exact clear I was using, but it was Dupont and cost close to $50 for a quart of the resin and catalyst. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodieb8 Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 we use automotive clears on some products. that meaning plastics,metals. auto clears don't play well with woods. slight expansions will crack or help peel factors. we use transtar clears and save lots over DuPont pricing.. we do recommend a fresh air supply.,respirator/blower system.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking 56 Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 (edited) I used a High Gloss Clear Waterborne Polyurethane Copolymer Industrial Coating 1.2 single stage clear from this company. The lure was dipped several times but after a few months, cracks appeared throughout the whole lure. Now, since this was one of my first rattlecan lure I can't guarantee that the paint was fully cured when I used this product but as you can see, it can crack. Edited January 28, 2015 by Seeking 56 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonoman Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 I use a Nason 2k clear with the corresponding catalyst, never had any issues with it whatsoever but I only spray automotive basecoat urethanes underneath...not sure what it would it do with non compatible stuff I imagine it wouldn't do well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Moreau Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 Like WoddieB said don't use AC on wood. I only use it on plastic and resin baits. That said I have tried a few different ones and I will not buy DuPont anymore unless I get a huge discount. I personally like the old version of Matrix Solutions Refinish line. It was cheap but good. My least favorite so far has been uPol. Moral here is you don't have to buy the name because usually that's all you get for the extra coin. Honestly I look on Ebay for decent prices and then look at feedback or google the manufacturer to see how people like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodieb8 Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 seeking 56 that's definatly a not finished hardening,. the solvents didn't play nice. but on the bright side ive been there a few times lol. quite a few Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spoonpluggergino Posted January 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 It is a learning curve for me. I am finding out that when it comes to clear topcoat there is really no easy way to do it. D2 an e-tx are working really nice, but it takes longer time. I done 6 baits last summer using Acme Finish 1 FC720 , 4 to 1. The baits where made from PVC deck boards and I clear coated the baits at least a week after I painted them, I only done one coat, maybe that is why I did not get the deep shine like you get with epoxy mix, it did not crack or attack the paint so that was a good thing. I like it because I was able to spray it and just hang and dry, The baits are made with PCV deckboard, so maybe that is why the paint did not crack Gino Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 I don't use auto clears but I bet you could add something to them to facilitate flexibility, like whatever is used to clearcoat plastic auto bumpers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonoman Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 I haven't had a single issue on wood, plastic or otherwise, I just don't mix the types of paints if you do most likely you will encounter something that you don't want, you can buy very small amounts of urethane basecoats at automotive paint dealers to go with the clears, it isn't cheap and its very toxic as I'm sure you are fixing to hear about, but you eliminate all the heat setting and all that and personally I prefer the way it sprays...if your building large musky baits it will not give you the durability the the multiple coat epoxy route does...no way no how...Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spoonpluggergino Posted January 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 Okay, after reading all your response it tells me that not to use auto clear especially with wood type baits. No use reinventing the wheel Thank You Everyone Gino Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking 56 Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 Actually Gino, you should try it and see for yourself. I'm actually going to use the product again but this time I'm going to make sure that bait has cured for a month!! 'Cause in IMO in the end when paint cures and hardens properly it's still paint. It clearly says on the gallon use for paint. I was so eager to try the bait that I rushed to clear it. I hear ya, Woodie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowhunter Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 Bob P is right again! Using a flex agent in the clear coat over wood is the way to go. As well Sonoman is dead on about using proper paints underneath the top coat for adhesion. These automotive urethanes are in a different league compared to waterborne craft paints. I see so many problems addressed here under assumed airbrush problems, and in reality most times it's the junk paint. You can't take a high end detail airbrush with a fine needle/nozzle, run diluted craft paint through it and not expect to have a multitude of problems! I use various Iwata's nearly daily and run urethanes. At the end of a painting session I'll run Lacquer thinner or Acetone, pull the needle and wipe it down and re-assemble. In 5 years I've NEVER had to soak the AB due to built up gunk! If you don"t want to make the investment in paint, respirators and a proper spray booth, I wouldn't play with automotive clear coats. BTW 5 coats of an Automotive urethane clear coat is not going to be more durable than 2, this is not 20 coats of lacquer theory. So, stay with the crap, oh I mean Craft paint, use a larger tip like a .5 and spin with epoxy. My 2 cents, Douglas 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodieb8 Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 for many years we did customs for 3 companies. bombers hot lips warts etc. . those we used auto clears. on salmon spoons also auto clears. . done correct the shines good after 25 years. even spinnerblades . just paint fade on test subjects after 4 years in sunlight. for woods especially softwoods our test results were substrate shift and auto clears hazed cracked etc. .the fallacy of sealing wont help. water will ALWAYS find a way in. on woods. . gino on resins such as deckboards we had no issues on clears as its a polybase. or urethanes. presently were doing a run on a new product were introducing urethane molded .. test results are good but as you guys stated to get deep lustre automotive clears require multiple coats. not feasible in production building. so theres my whole take on how I do it guys. I hope I shed lite for someone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spoonpluggergino Posted January 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 I have been reading all of your response very carefully and trying my best to understand what you are writing, I love to always learn new things Let me see if I have this right Rowhunter and woodieb. The way I am understanding this topic that automotive urethane are much better paint than craft paints like acrylic or water based pains and should be used on metal or other material other than wood. When using urethane paints, how long do you wait in between coats of paint before you apply another coat or another color. I do own a respirator I used it in the garage with the door open, when I done the Finish 1 auto clear. I am a mechanical contractor I can easily grasp mechanical stuff, but paints and different coating material, it as always been a problem for me to fully understand their uses. Thanks Guys Gino Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking 56 Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 Rowhunter, are you suggesting that autoclear will fail on properly cured rattlecan painted wooden lures? If so, why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowhunter Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 Gino, Yes the urethanes are a much finer composition therefore, superior atomization. Dry time between coats or a new color is however fast you can change the color, 30 seconds or so. You can and I do, use it on wood with a schedule. I'm using propionate to seal, auto primer, urethane colors then auto clear coat or epoxy finish. This is about the best finish around for wood. Now, what Woody say's is true. The same finish on a spoon will outlast this finish on wood because wood moves a lot due to temp changes. S56 A properly cured rattle can finish is just that, A finish. It's not meant to be top coated. Also most rattle can paint is some type of enamel and will not play well with auto clears. Douglas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 I think wood baits are a special problem for clearcoats since differences in temperature cause them to expand and contract more than plastic baits. A coating on an expanding/contracting object needs to have some flexibility or it will crack from internal forces, or alternatively it must be strong enough to resist the pressure.. An egg is able to withstand considerable pressure from the outside but will break easily from the inside. That's Mother Nature's efficient design. So at least one component of your finish needs to be very strong to withstand internal pressure or your topcoat it needs to be able to flex along with the underlying wood surface and paint layers. It's true that acrylic latex paint does not adhere as well as urethane or lacquer. But that really seems beside the point for this particular problem. I use epoxy to undercoat or topcoat, often both. And since I have them on hand, I also use Solarez and sometimes multiple coats of propionate for undercoating, followed by epoxy, MC urethane, or concrete sealer topcoats. I haven't had any problems with finish cracks on any of those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking 56 Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 Rowhunter, you're right about rattlecan paint not requiring a clearcoat, in fact it's an option I give someone who wants a plastic bait repainted as I don't usually clear them on my own plastic baits. But one of the benefits of using rattlecans on plastics is that you're able eliminate the priming stage. Unfortunately, I wouldn't be able to sell any wooden baits if they weren't cleared especially when everybody else does it. I'm more of a builder than a painter and I wish you guys would expand a little more on what wood it is that expands and contract / lifts paints and cracks clear because I don't experience those phenomenons at all. I use cedar and mahoganey almost exclusively now without any issues. s56 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spoonpluggergino Posted January 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 Douglas Thank You, Very good explanation, I get it One more question. These are all the water based paints that I use: Wicked, Createx, Wildlife, Lifetone Hydromist, Polytranspar, and ComArt these are all water borne paints. I never used auto air but auto air is also listed as a water based paint, would not be a urerhane Paint My question: the auto urethane paints do they make paints for airbrush and in small volume like the acrylic paints and what are their brands? I do use propionate for my balsa baits so that would work to use auto clear over the the primer s56 I am in the same boat as you are I can build and fix a all lot stuff but when it comes to paint I am lost, I just follow the crowd. Chemistry its not my strong point Thanks again Gino Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowhunter Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 (edited) S56, All wood will contract and expand. The two you listed happen to be very good at resisting water intrusion should there be a leak, crack , or tooth mark in the finish. Some wood's soak up water like a sponge . Basswood , Maple ,Birch , Red Oak , Poplar , Pine just to name a few all are subject to swelling then topcoat failure. I'm not saying to avoid these wood's sometimes their density is just what is needed to make the lure perform as you desire. I use Maple and Birch for ALL of my Musky glide baits. Douglas Gino, check out House of Kolor AB ready 2-4 oz bottles Edited January 29, 2015 by Rowhunter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spoonpluggergino Posted January 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 Thank You Sir Gino Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 S56, All wood will contract and expand. The two you listed happen to be very good at resisting water intrusion should there be a leak, crack , or tooth mark in the finish. Some wood's soak up water like a sponge . Basswood , Maple ,Birch , Red Oak , Poplar , Pine just to name a few all are subject to swelling then topcoat failure. I'm not saying to avoid these wood's sometimes their density is just what is needed to make the lure perform as you desire. I use Maple and Birch for ALL of my Musky glide baits. Douglas Gino, check out House of Kolor AB ready 2-4 oz bottles Douglas, In my experience it is the moisture in the wood that causes the movement. Only really oily woods, like teak and the Malaysian hardwoods like Ipe now being sold, have enough oil in them to make them relatively stable. But the oils also make them heavy. The only other wood I've found that is really stable is balsa. I'm not sure why, but it doesn't seem to have enough residual moisture to make it move a lot, at least in smaller baits. I really have no idea why it is the way it is, but it is. Hahaha I tried all manner of sealers for my jointed wooden swimbaits (built from pine, douglas fir, poplar) and never found anything that worked except oil-based stuff. I learned to live with having to repair dents as they occurred. Then I found AZEK PVC decking and trimboard (thank you JR Hopkins) and my sealing worries were gone forever. It is hard, strong, waterproof, and buoyant. I can make a lure, put on the hardware, and test float it for ballasting without any sealer at all. I've even caught fish on unpainted lures I took up to my local pond for test swimming. Plus it can be shaped and carved with the same tools I used for wood. Amazing stuff! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking 56 Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 Well then it's good to know that you hunt musky Rowhunter! It will certainly put things into perspective in future. The only bait I welcome water intrusion are Reef Hawgs which I believe are made out of maple. They perform a lot better when water logged. If you ever decide to use experiment with Jatoba a.k.a Brazilian Cherry for your gliders let me know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodieb8 Posted January 29, 2015 Report Share Posted January 29, 2015 great topic gents. woods like reef hawgs ,built are a sugar maple. examples of successful lure sometime are the woods itself. for the guys not familiar with toothy critters ...musky.. many lures are trolling lures. they are pulled up to 5mph average. the baits need overbuild in quality and paints.. I truly wish Honduras mahogany was reachable in pricing in Canada. its a great stable wood. durable carves easily and holds paints well..mark p. that deckboards great but we cant turn it on lathes grrrr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
