Why Does This Happen All Of The Time?

[Rowhunter]

This one has been bothering me for a while now. It seems that every single question asked about wood, turns into a PVC conversion attempt. I realize that some people like to use it, but why must all threads get derailed? Perhaps a tutorial , or some type of wood to pvc thread sticky might let these original posts live on their own merit. Thanks.

 

   Douglas

[bass100]

You will have to be more specific.  I can't find the wood questions you are talking about.

[bass100]

I will try to answer without knowing what wood questions you are refering to. If you work with both you will find that wood and PVC are very similar as far as lure making goes. You can make the same baits and use the same equipment on both. There are some characteristic differences in the same way that there are characteristic differences between each type of wood. It is like asking a question about how you cut basswood and someone replys with an answer about how they cut cedar. PVC is changing how the garage builder makes baits and is still new for the most part so many questions will be asked especially in a post about wood because they are so similar. The best way to compare the two is to pose a question to the wood guys simply because there are more of them to make the comparison. Hope this helps.

[Travis]

I think it is just par for the course as many of the forums I am on (various subjects) have those topics that almost always end up going this route.  I think it is fine to give as an option for someone to try out but see it used to "fix"  a defect in craftsmanship. The question usually goes I am having (insert issue) and many of the responses won't have anything to do with how to fix the issue in a wood bait but default to change material of build.  For example much easier to to slap a band aid on the issue than fix the guy that has a poor technique in installation of line ties.  The same technique that would kill a wood bait can be carried over into other materials.  The other material just "hides" or allows the defect to exist.  

 

I enjoy the process of building a lure, trying to figure out what I screwed up (surprised this ever happens     ), and then making the corrections on the following build.  Do I want the lure to fail, no not at all, but that is what makes it interesting to me.  I mainly use wood (basswood and balsa) but have PVC in the shop and kick out some lures with it now and then also.  PVC just has no "life" to it when using and gives me the same overall experience as making foamies  as the end product ends up feeling more about stamping out widgets than crafting for me.     

Edited February 19, 2015 by Travis

[Travis]

I think many have different takes on it so don't get the overall immersion some feel in making  lure in wood.  I see it in the wood working forums also.  Guys will ask about using hand planes to true stock.  Power tools always get brought up as the way to go.

Edited February 19, 2015 by Travis

[woodieb8]

I enjoy all aspects. I build wood baits...pour foam baits and have used pvc. also I paint blades lead anything fishing related. the different strokes for different folks works for me. the site is a basic  scientific lab of lure making... I luv it. guys from every corner of the earth sharing facts/tidbits

[bass100]

I enjoy all aspects. I build wood baits...pour foam baits and have used pvc. also I paint blades lead anything fishing related. the different strokes for different folks works for me. the site is a basic  scientific lab of lure making... I luv it. guys from every corner of the earth sharing facts/tidbits

That is why I read into every topic.  I don't discourage the so called "hijacking a thread" because that is nothing more than someones creative juices flowing.

[mark poulson]

I mention PVC often, and it's because I love lure building and fishing.  The more foolproof I can make my lure building process, and the faster, the more time I have to either build more baits, or to fish.

I used to build wooden baits.  

I am a carpenter, and I love to work with wood.  Hand tools just seem to fit my hand, and, when I'm working on something, I don't have to even think about how to use a tool.  It's automatic.  It's probably that way for a lot of other carpenters, and people who work with their hands.

My biggest hurdle, when I first began building lures, was time.  I ran my own business, and never had time to build a lure from start to finish in an uninterrupted process.  Waiting for a sealed bait to dry, so I could ballast it, waiting for the epoxy to set when I installed the bills and hook hangers, waiting for my basecoat/sealer to dry so I could begin the painting process, all really stretched out my lure building.  It would take me at least a week to build and finish a lure.

Since I have always tried to find faster, more efficient ways to do any of the tasks involved with my job, I also began looking for ways to streamline my lure building process.  Not because I didn't enjoy working with wood, but because it's limitations were really slowing me down.

My biggest problem was waterproofing, because I was making jointed swim baits.

After I went through a ton of sealer options, and had each one fail eventually, I posted here, asking for help.

JR Hopkins replied that I should try Azek PVC decking.

I did, and it was like a stone was rolled away from my tomb!

Because I can now conceive, build, ballast, paint, and finish a lure in one day.

PVC isn't the holly grail.  But it has taken so many of the frustrations, and potential points of failure, out of my lure building process that I'm forever grateful to JR.  

And to Bass100, for Solarez.  And to whoever recommended AC1315.

All of those things have helped me be more successful in my lure building, and enjoy the process even more.

I just think it's kind of chicken$hit not to share my experience with others.

If PVC had been available and in common use when most of us started lure building, we'd probably never have fooled around with wood in the first place.

There's a reason almost all of the major lure manufacturers have gone to some kind of plastic.

Balsa baits are special, but they are a whole different animal, and have a well deserved following.

But PVC is so foolproof, it's hard not to trumpet it to beginning builders, so they don't go through the same frustrations and headaches I did when I built with wood.

[woodieb8]

when I finished the pvc I did its awesome. for production builds for me its not a way as time becomes a factor. . the only thing I have not been into is plastic injection. to us every lure style type and whether its wood or anything has its place. if we could build lures and reap the profits of shipping costs we woulda retired in a warm sunny place years ago...lol...

[BobP]

Mark makes clear why he likes to use PVC trim board and his reasons are perfectly valid to me.  For a newby to lure making or for anyone who wants to build crankbaits quickly, PVC has some real advantages.  He outlines how to use PVC from soup to nuts - and that's a nice thing to share.  No harm, no foul in my book.

 

That said, I use balsa, paulownia, and basswood exclusively to make crankbaits.  Why?  I value the differences in density that those woods provide to the way my crankbaits fish.  I think wood density is critical - so using only a single material for the lure bodies on all my lures would be shortchanging myself and the guys who fish my crankbaits.  That's not a dig at PVC.  If you can build a variety of crankbaits with PVC that behave exactly how you want them to behave, you are doing exactly the right thing in sticking with one material.  I haven't.  Plus, Mark's note about electrostatically charged PVC dust was something that really bugged me when I tried doing a few PVC crankbaits.

 

Personally, I feel proud that I can turn out good looking, good fishing, durable crankbaits from a variety of woods.  It took me years and some failures along the way to learn how to do that.  The issue of build speed is also important.  If instant gratification is important to you - and I recognize it is to an increasing number of guys - PVC might be your best material.  I don't have a thousand other things to do during the day, so that's a non-issue.  As a hobby builder, I don't care how long it takes to build a good crankbait.  In fact, I've come to value the discipline of patience that building in wood requires.

 

It's all just different strokes for different folks.   

[Seeking 56]

You know it's funny, we try to educate ourselves about everything else when it comes to lure building, everything except the most important of all, wood selection.

 

What kind of woods were you using Mark that caused you so much frustration? 

 

I bought a 1x6 pvc board, cut out a glide bait but I can't seem to want to finish it......

 

s56

[mark poulson]

Bob,

If I could build wood baits like you, that's all I'd do, too!  Hahaha  You are the master of balsa baits, in my book.

I kinda backed into PVC for cranks, because I found it worked so well for my jointed swimbaits.  I just thought I'd give it a try for a popper, and that, as they say, was all she wrote.

I admit I am impatient.  Not with the building itself, but with the waiting time between steps when I built with wood.

And the wood swimbaits I was making just suffered too much from water intrusion and paint failures.

Once I found that PVC would work for smaller baits, too, and gave me the added bonus of speeding my build time, I was hooked!

 

Seeking,

In the past, I've used balsa, pine, douglas fir, poplar, and paulowinia.  I even tried white oak once.  Some of the wood cranks I made are still fishable, and I use them from time to time.

But PVC lets me make and test, and then finish, baits so much faster than wood that I will never go back to wood as a building material for baits. 

[Seeking 56]

Mark, 

 

To each their own but be carefull, you don't want to pigeonhole yourself with pvc.

 

 

s56

[BobP]

I guess if I built baits from PVC and used them to catch 8 pounders like Mark has, I might think that I had found the promised land too.  8 lb fish are as rare as hen's teeth around here.  On the other hand, since you have 21 lb bass swimming around in SOCAL... why are you just catching those little dinks, Mark? 

 

My theory is he just doesn't have the patience to wait for the trout truck to arrive at the lake!

 

And yes, I'm envious.  Especially since the high today was 17 and the low tonight will be 0.  And I live in the freakin South!

 

More seriously, there's something to be said for using a single body material IF it allows you to build great crankbaits.  There's plenty of precedence for this if you look at cedar baits produced by Poe and Stanford, or balsa baits made by famous custom builders too numerous to mention.  After all, it's not what you build them from - it's all about catching fish.  There will always be traditionalists who disdain anything but wood.  I understand that and even have a little tiny strain of the same sentiment running through my noggin too.  But I gave up fishing with a bamboo rods awhile back and maybe this will pass too.... or maybe not.

[Vodkaman]

What is most surprising is that Mark is a professional carpenter, a traditionalist opinion may have been more expected. This just emphasizes how much Mark values the plastic.

 

I have not tried the board as it is not available locally. I am sure it is in the city somewhere though.

 

I am not particularly impatient, but I am not about making pretty lures. I have always enjoyed the challenge of speed building and can produce a reasonable flat sided hunter, from 'lights on' to first fully assembled first dip, in less that 30 minutes. I mostly use albesia, which is the same density as a heavy balsa.

 

Dave

[Seeking 56]

21 lbs bass?  Ya gotta start making musky lures Mark, out of cedar of course!

[mark poulson]

Hahaha   The days of 21lb bass at Castaic, or anywhere else in the SoCal area, are long gone.

The first generation of hybid Northern/Florida bass had the giant genes, but they are long gone.

And the stripers introduced into most of our lakes pretty much out compete bass for the shad, and decimate what's left.

We used to have shoals of shad in Castaic, so thick they looked like black weeds along the shoreline, but no more.

 

I am a craftsman, not an artist.  I do get a kick out of making something that looks really nice, but I mostly enjoy making a bait that works.  Solving problems, like figuring out how to make an easily repeatable hunting crank, is fun for me.

I do enjoy the building process, but it's not something that's conscious.  I just feel good after I've been working with my hands, like all is right with the world again.

Maybe our politicians should take up wood working, instead of fund raising!

[imagine_studios]

That's assuming politicians want all to be right with the world...

 

I agree with Mark that most people aren't looking to hijack anyone into their way of thinking, but trying to save a new guy a bunch of time re inventing the wheel.  If Mark, or anyone else, has found a new way to make a wheel that's much easier, I for one am glad to hear about it.  I think there's a level of excitement sharing something new with others too, especially if you think that new idea is going to save someone else a bunch of time or money.

 

Personally, I've only worked with wood so far and love it, but I'm kind of glad that some of the wood conversations turn to other things people have found success using, otherwise, I might be stuck using wood forever when there might be other avenues available. 

 

I think the tangent topic, which can be frustrating at times when you're looking for something specific, is the way of the forum world too.  You start out talking about top coats and somehow it morphs into a discussion about hook sizes.  One thought often leads to another and since PVC and wood are very similar as far as their crafting and shaping process, they kind of go hand in hand. 

 

...and, I think we've done it once again...  that's the last time I'll say PVC today, I promise.

[mark poulson]

That's assuming politicians want all to be right with the world...

 

I agree with Mark that most people aren't looking to hijack anyone into their way of thinking, but trying to save a new guy a bunch of time re inventing the wheel.  If Mark, or anyone else, has found a new way to make a wheel that's much easier, I for one am glad to hear about it.  I think there's a level of excitement sharing something new with others too, especially if you think that new idea is going to save someone else a bunch of time or money.

 

Personally, I've only worked with wood so far and love it, but I'm kind of glad that some of the wood conversations turn to other things people have found success using, otherwise, I might be stuck using wood forever when there might be other avenues available. 

 

I think the tangent topic, which can be frustrating at times when you're looking for something specific, is the way of the forum world too.  You start out talking about top coats and somehow it morphs into a discussion about hook sizes.  One thought often leads to another and since PVC and wood are very similar as far as their crafting and shaping process, they kind of go hand in hand. 

 

...and, I think we've done it once again...  that's the last time I'll say PVC today, I promise.

 

Just to clarify, I learned about Azek PVC decking from JR Hopkins, so, technically, IT'S ALL HIS FAULT!!!!

[Don-Art]

What I like is how people share their information here on TU. Sometimes it may seem as if someone is hijacking our posts.

But that truly isn't their intention. I like to hear what other people are using for their builds. Many times it has saved me the expense of experimenting with a new material or topcoat for an example. Sometimes it causes us to step out of the box and look in a new direction. I have also noted that people interpret the posts differently and supply information that is off the track and headed in a different direction. I have used expanded PVC signboard in the past, Basswood is what I use most. I buy it locally from a sawmill.

I build for the enjoyment that it provides.

Don

[Salty's]

Did you know pvc is smoother than wood? It paints easier. Doesn't need to be sealed.  Saves time,  

 

 

Sorry I had to   I consider any other lure but wood something that a heathen would use      LOL

[imagine_studios]

Mark uses the classic, "blame the guy who isn't in the conversation," trick, I love it.  It works every time.

[mark poulson]

Mark uses the classic, "blame the guy who isn't in the conversation," trick, I love it.  It works every time.

Dude, don't blame the messenger!    I didn't even realize how clever I was!  Hahaha

[imagine_studios]

I won't tell anyone you're clever, your secret is safe with me. 

[FrogAddict]

I was having some trouble a while back and Mark turned me on to PVC. I have made some lures out of PVC since and I still do occasionally but I really enjoy working with cedar. Dieter has inspired me to make some of his old school cranks with the wood lip on the front and I've been enjoying that immensely. I understand what the OP is saying but I think it's healthy for people to offer alternative solutions to a builder's issues. I still use PVC when I am pressed for time or when I'm making a jointed bait but my heart lies with good old wood lures.