bass100 Posted February 27, 2015 Report Share Posted February 27, 2015 I disagree with Rowhunter. I make and use both single and 2 piece glides and the 2 piece glides have a much better glide than the one piece glides, in my opinion. I just posted some pics in the gallery of some 2 piece glides I just finished. If I remember tomorrow I will post some pics of 4 different types of one piece glides I just finished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowhunter Posted February 28, 2015 Report Share Posted February 28, 2015 That may be true in your case bass100 , but a good glide bait will go 2-3 feet side to side. I'd like to see any jointed even come close. Especially with paint brush fins hanging out the side and top, it look's very nice but will not help a glide. Douglas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronBass Posted February 28, 2015 Report Share Posted February 28, 2015 Deps 250 have a 4' glide and a few others with a turn of the reel and no rod action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowhunter Posted February 28, 2015 Report Share Posted February 28, 2015 2+2=4' , 3+3=6' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted February 28, 2015 Report Share Posted February 28, 2015 Reading your first post again, particularly the observation about twitching and the bait always turning to one side. This is correct. The first twitch will cause the bait to turn one side or the other. A vortex is formed on one side. As the water turns, the water pushes against the side of the lure, towards the mid to tail and forces the lure to turn. The bait is now sitting at an angle with the head to the vortex side. The second twitch, the vortex will automatically form on the same side again, because it is already sticking out. In fact, because there is no ambiguity about which side the vortex is going to form, the effect is even stronger, and for all subsequent twitches. You can see this effect clearly from 1:15 of . Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel3495 Posted February 28, 2015 Report Share Posted February 28, 2015 The bait it self looks very good. My first bet would be the eye to eye joint. Change that to a eye/pin and i'll bet the problem goes away. Only other thing I would check it the ballast. My baits are more to my liking when I ballast the sections separate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronBass Posted February 28, 2015 Report Share Posted February 28, 2015 If I can achieve any thing close to this I'm happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
con3head Posted February 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2015 This is exactly what i want from this baits!!! Thanks ironbass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
con3head Posted March 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2015 update! 1. changing the ballast to the shown positions makes the movement a little bit mor stable but there is no smooth glide at all 2. changing the hinge system to pin and screweys has no effect on the movement! And when i twitch it is still moving to one side, i think the sides are to flat maybe? like that the high and flat side makes a massive waterresistence???!!!! I want a glide like the deps 250 slide swimmer and this one is swimming very wide and smooth from side to side, and if you twitch it, it turn immediatly like i can see.... so where is this magic happening????^^ should i grind of some from the top and bottom to make the bait thinner if you are looking from the side???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky Glenn Posted March 1, 2015 Report Share Posted March 1, 2015 On my one piece jerkbait that would only glide to one side, it was copied from an original that glided both ways. So, I doubt cutting the height will cure the problem. Musky Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
con3head Posted March 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2015 i was also wondering with the deps 250, there are only 2 positions of ballast!!! nothing in the tailsection? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted March 1, 2015 Report Share Posted March 1, 2015 If I can achieve any thing close to this I'm happy. IronBass, I get that action if I leave the joint looser. The tighter the joint, the longer the S swim, and the less the side turn on the pause or jerk. Being able to adjust the joint gap on the water to get the retrieve I want is another reason to use screw eyes and hinge pin, and also why I love PVC. No water intrusion worries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
con3head Posted March 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2015 (edited) Reading your first post again, particularly the observation about twitching and the bait always turning to one side. This is correct. The first twitch will cause the bait to turn one side or the other. A vortex is formed on one side. As the water turns, the water pushes against the side of the lure, towards the mid to tail and forces the lure to turn. The bait is now sitting at an angle with the head to the vortex side. The second twitch, the vortex will automatically form on the same side again, because it is already sticking out. In fact, because there is no ambiguity about which side the vortex is going to form, the effect is even stronger, and for all subsequent twitches. You can see this effect clearly from 1:15 of . Dave this is exactly how it looks when i twitch!!!! have you found a way to get it work??? Edited March 1, 2015 by con3head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted March 1, 2015 Report Share Posted March 1, 2015 1 - You have to get the lure away from the vortex after the pull to allow it to glide. 2 - The pull has to be long enough for the next cycle to happen, which will send the bait in the opposite direction. 3 - the shape must be such that will allow a long glide. This is going to read like I am having a go at your technique, but all I can do is read the evidence presented and apply some water theory. Your lure is deep, thick and blunt nosed. 1 - This is not going to allow for long, smooth glide strokes. 2 - the cadence of such dimensions will be slower than you are perhaps used to. The drum tap technique for 'walk the dog' works fine for narrow bodies. The cadence is fast and you are getting to that second cycle to change the direction. I suspect if you slowed down your action from a fast twitch to a slower draw - draw - draw action, you might find what you are looking for. It is all about finding the balance or sweet spot for your particular lure. It is like the hunting thing; just about every lure will hunt, but only at a particular speed. The hard part is building a lure that hunts at a speed that you want to use. You have to think more about what the water is doing around your lure. Vortices are forming one side then the other. The time between the left and right cycles is dependent on speed and dimensions. It is difficult because you cannot see the vortices and what they are doing. At the , you can actually see a reflection of the vortices. Not too clear, but gives you an idea. My next test tank will have a mirror base, just for this visibility. I know lots of members are not overly impressed when I start talking vortices, but how can you design effectively if you don't know what makes the lure work! If you have a long thin mirror, try it in the bath tub with a lamp overhead. Dave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass100 Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 If you don't mind me asking, how are you tank testing your lure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 If you don't mind me asking, how are you tank testing your lure? I'll jump in on this and say that I use a water bucket on my driveway to ballast my two piece jointed glide baits, and to make sure they fall horizontal, and at the same rate. I used a River 2 Sea S Waver when I first started as my guide for both joint gap and body section ratio. Now I can pretty much judge how much gap my joint needs by holding the assembled bait head down, and seeing how far to each side the rear section falls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass100 Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 There is nothing wrong with ballasting in a bucket. The reason I ask is if he is testing the action of his bait in a small space, like a bathtub, he will never know how it actually swims. It takes a bit of space to test the action, especially on a glide bait. You can get away with a small space on some 3+ piece swimbaits but you aren't going to get away with a small space on a 2 piece glide. Hope this helps. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel3495 Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 Was thinking about this post this morning and one other thing came to mind. Make sure your ballast is only in the lower half of your bait. For instance, If I'm looking at a side profile, I would never drill a ballast hole up further than a line drawn from nose to tail. Ballast higher than that will cause the bait to lean. Just another thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
con3head Posted March 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 I did it like that just 0,5-1,0cm from the bottom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronBass Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 i was also wondering with the deps 250, there are only 2 positions of ballast!!! nothing in the tailsection? 250, has no weight in the tail section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
con3head Posted March 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 250, has no weight in the tail section. so i´m wondering, if the equal weighting to each section is that important??? because if the 250 slideswimmer has no weight in the tail section, it can´t be equal or maybe the density is more so it sinks without extra ballast??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowhunter Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 Now, go back to my first post about the difference in weighting between a swimbait and a glider. Just trying to help. Douglas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 Douglas is right. The two types of baits are weighted differently. I never put weight in the last section of my jointed swimbaits, so the tail is more buoyant, and helps the bait swim horizontally. I've found that adding weight to the tail results in a tail down swim. While it does look like an injured trout struggling to swim, I find that a horizontal swim is more successful. I have made several two piece glide baits that do glide with an S swimming motion. For me, equal rate of fall of the two glide bait sections is critical. How it is achieved is up to each builder, but I add belly ballast to each section, after I've added the hooks and split rings so I get an accurate read. I also put the hinge hardware into each section so I get a true rate of fall, and work to get the bait sections to fall at the same rate, and horizontally. As was suggested here by Vodkaman and others when I posted about my problems earlier, having the two sections fall at the same rate, and horizontally, seems to put less binding force on the hinge, so it is freer to move with the changing vortices during the swim/glide. A free moving hinge is also critical for my glide baits. I am not arguing with Butch Brown's 250 modifications. I am only saying this works for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
con3head Posted March 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 (edited) i undersand these things! free hinge weight equal falling at the same rate... horizontally... but, like you say you are weighting both of the TWO sections equal AND horizontally! this is not working when you say, do not use ballast in the tailsection, i don´t mean dierctly in the tail^^ i cant weight them equal and horizontally WITHOUT any ballast in the tailsection, because if i don´t, it sitting in the water nose down! the first section will be horizontally that way and the tailsection is forcing to the surface.... hope you understand what i´m trying to explain^^ Edited March 4, 2015 by con3head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 I guess what I said was confusing. Sorry. I was talking about my three and four piece jointed swimbaits when I said no weight in the tail section. For my two piece glide baits, I do weight the tail section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
