jonister Posted March 24, 2015 Report Share Posted March 24, 2015 So i have been finally getting some quality water to test my newest lures on, and one thing i have noticed it that quite a few like to peel out at higher speeds. As much as i tune them, they will run fine until i burn them or try to, and will roll. This is mainly on my deepdiving cranks which i need to get down there deep. Has anyone found a solution to this problem? any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted March 24, 2015 Report Share Posted March 24, 2015 A lures swim characteristics change with speed and this is a prime example. You design your lure to work perfectly at say 2 cranks per second, but when you increase the speed to 4 or 5 cps it is a completely different lure.The reason - there is a balance between the lip and the body and the fulcrum is the tow eye. You are balancing the water forces across the lip against those across the body. Because of the sharp edged lip, the water forces increase more with speed than they do across the body, so the balance changes and the lure swims more nose down.The best you can do is to adjust the design balance to prevent the lure reaching the critical point at high speeds, but this might compromise your perfect swim at the lower speeds.The adjustment is all about this balance: you can lengthen the body, move the tow eye forward or shorten the lip. I suggest you experiment with one of the lures that blows out and trim the lip back gradually until you get what you want. A battery Dremel is great for this kind of waters edge work.Dave 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonister Posted March 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2015 Thanks for the reply! That makes total sense! i thought i was doing something terribly wrong in the weighting process. I will try trimming the lip on my deeper crankbait. Thankyou! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenlures Posted March 24, 2015 Report Share Posted March 24, 2015 Where is the tow eye in the lip or in the nose of the lure. Had the same problem had the eye in the nose once I put in a wire in the lip about a 1/4" from the nose I had great results, I can troll the lure which is 10" with the lip at up to 10 mph with no blow out and it handles at 3.5 mph 100 ft of line out to 25' to 27' deep. This is a musky lure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted March 24, 2015 Report Share Posted March 24, 2015 Ravenlures, Whenever I envision you guys trolling musky lures, the sound track from Jaws pops into my head! Hahaha Those lures are enormous! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonister Posted March 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 One of them has a tow eye on the lip, and it seems to peel out every once in a while while trying to get it to trolling speed, and the other has the tow eye on the body. Vodkamans suggestion helped on the one with the tow eye on the body but i dont know what to do for the other one, im also not positive if the problem was just river currents pushing it here and there causing it to roll or something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted March 25, 2015 Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 Crankbaits are very sensitive about exactly where you put the line tie. It helps me to closely copy a good commercial bait for the first iteration, then experiment from there to tweak the performance to my liking in subsequent baits. On a deep diver, the closer the line tie is to the nose of the bait, the harder/wider action you get. If it's too close, it may run OK at slow speed but blow out at higher speeds. If you use soft temper stainless steel wire for the line tie, you can bend it forward/back to alter the action of the bait to some extent. On baits with the tie in the nose, the closer the tie is to the surface of the lip, the harder/wider the action - so you can bend the tie up/down for a similar tweak. In my experience, deep divers are the most difficult to design because there are critical elements including fore/aft balance, lip shape and size, line tie placement, and ballast location that all have to work together for a good running bait. All of these things are important to all baits but it just seems that a deep diver with one element that is "off" will show bad behavior faster than the same fault on a shallow running bait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenlures Posted March 25, 2015 Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 What ever you choose to do do one move at a time or you will go crazy it might be to much angle also but keep playing around and wright it down keep notes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted March 25, 2015 Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 X2 - one change at a time, or you will learn nothing. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted March 25, 2015 Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 (edited) @ jonister What ist the lip shape on your lures , ........and how deep do you want yout lures to run ? Through the years I've learned that pointed lips(similar to a spearhead)and elongated , yet quite narrow oval lips seem to be superior regarding easy blow-out to the usual half round lips , that taper towards their base , ......yet generate fairly deep dives , .........only in terms of a pronounced and strong wobble one has to make sacrifices , at least on fairly straight-bodied lures . Greetz , diemai Edited March 25, 2015 by diemai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted March 25, 2015 Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 Diemai - the pointed lip does make sense for stability, but as you say, reduced wobble action. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted March 25, 2015 Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 (edited) @ Vodkaman For my demands that's just OK , ...I'd be using larger deep divers for fall season piking , ..by this time of year water temps would have already chilled down , thus aquatic life slows down either , so lures with a moderate wobble would be superior to those with a more livelier action , ......but nevertheless , this only counts for my own fishing demnds in local swims around my area . If you want more action to such lures equipped with a pointed "spearhead" lip , you've gotta make the lip a bit wider than the graetest body width and make the body in a flat "banana" shape ,......the curved body would generate a good wobble either . Some examples for both yours and my statements to be seen in this latest video of mine , please go to www.youtube.com and utilize search function typing in "Jointed Plugs , Deep Divers And Others" , by user channel "61diemai".......sorry for inconvinience , but for some reason straight linking with my Internet Explorer does not work in here . Greetings , Dieter Edited March 25, 2015 by diemai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonister Posted March 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 I have been trying coffin lips with the tow eye in the lip. It will get pretty deep on a slow retrieve but i want to be able to troll with it for deeper predators. Im trying to hit the 25 foot or more depth. Its proving to be really hard! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted March 25, 2015 Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 Diemai - another masterpiece of a video. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking 56 Posted March 25, 2015 Report Share Posted March 25, 2015 If you're going to be using a coffin lip, troll faster or add more weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonister Posted March 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2015 Dieter, i watched a bunch of your videos and learned a lot! I will try adjusting lip size and even some self centering line ties. your bit on making a lip wider that the lure body for more action just helped me a bunch on my stick bait making, thank you! Ill try adjusting and such and see how it goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted March 28, 2015 Report Share Posted March 28, 2015 @ Jonister Happy to hear that I was obviously able to provide some help and input with my humble videos . Deep divers running down at 25 feet are not that easy to build , I know by my own experience , .......but since you need them as trolling lures , you've got the advantage to be able to let your lures remain nose-heavy , no counterballast in the rear to improve the casting performance is neccessary . Even if a bigger lip already renders the lure nose heavy, you might still even place some more ballast into the front half of the lure , ......first to further reduce buoancy and second to act as keel ballast to hinder blow-outs , .......though I would not like to step beyond a 45° max hang position of the lure at rest . Being nose-heavy clearly enhances the diving performance of a lure(but also generates a poor to most poor casting performance) , same does a reduced buoancy . Lures for casting require a certain grade of buoancy to be able to pop them off bottom obstacles fairly fast , .......trolling lures must only be sufficiently buoyant to be able to slowly climb to the surface at rest , as one would most likely troll in open water assumingly without any bottom obstacles within reach , so it is enough, if a trolling lures rises slowly , ..maybe just to get out of the way when playing a hooked fish on another rod . in a nutshell , ..both being nose-heavy and less buoyant would increase the possible diving depth of a lure quite a bit. Just my , ........good luck , ....greetings , Dieter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
