MarkNY Posted April 6, 2015 Report Share Posted April 6, 2015 Hi Guys, I did some water testing on my first handcarved bait today. Overall i was a little disappointed. Here is what i learned: I think I installed the ballast a little off center, I used an aluminum lip in an effort to be able to bend it for testing but im not sure that was a good idea, I installed the lip at 20 degrees but noticed that a steeper angle was more stable, my tie off loop was tilted a little off center. I was able to get a decent action with good flash and shimmer but wasnt able to get any stability. I intend to use this lure for trolling behind a flasher off a downrigger for salmon in the great lakes. Speeds up to 3.0mph. So my questions are: What are the general rules for lip shape, size angle etc.? Does it make sense to cut 2 or 3 lip slots on a prototype for testing? My lip is approx the same width as my bait. Would a lip that is wider than bait be more stable? Id appreciate any thoughts, ideas, suggestions on this subject. thanks alot, mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking 56 Posted April 6, 2015 Report Share Posted April 6, 2015 Are you saying that your lure doesn't track? It hunts instead? I'm not sure what you mean by it not being stable. With a lip angle you have on your lure or if you were to go with one more parallel to the body, I would suggest going with a longer bill with a line tie directly attached to it instead of at the nose. Or, angle the lip at 45 degrees and not have the length of the lip extend past the line tie. I add ballast more towards the tail when I put on stainless steel bills on my lures to somewhat counter balance the weight of the lip but again, the line tie is on the bill. Hopes this helps. BTW, nice looking bait! s56 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkNY Posted April 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2015 Thanks Seeking, yes I had a hard time getting the lure to track straight. It would roll a little to one side and rise up. The lure floats the way i want it to at rest so i think the ballast is in the right location fore and aft. I just tried a square bill that is a little shorter and wider than the body and it performed much better. Nice wobble and it tracks straight. So ill keep working on it. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted April 7, 2015 Report Share Posted April 7, 2015 To get a straight running crankbait, symmetry is critical. You need the ballast, the lip, the line tie, and the hook hangers on the center line of the bait's body. You can't really do this on a wood bait just by eye - do it mechanically so wood grain will not fool your eye. I use a drafting compass to draw a center line around the bait, then flip the bait to the other side and do it again to guarantee the center line is actually on center. Do it immediately after cutting out the bait shape, while all the wood edges are still "square". I prefer to have the line tie close to the lip surface on most baits. It gives you harder and wider action. Making a lip slightly wider than the body of the bait usually gives more stability. If everything is straight and you are still having instability, I'd try increasing the ballast slightly. Looking at most commercial minnow style baits including jerkbaits, the lip angle is usually very close to 45 degrees which often yields the best mix of action and dive performance. For every "rule" spouted about crankbait design, there are exceptions that can make you look foolish. After awhile, you get the idea that the "performance rules" that are in your head are really just tendencies that beat against other performance tendencies - not all of which you understand. In my experience, the easiest way to approach design is to look critically at a successful commercial crankbait. They have usually been designed and tested to tweak the design for good performance and so are good guides to what works and what doesn't. Start with them and then tweak your design through successive prototypes until you get exactly what you want. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRammit Posted April 7, 2015 Report Share Posted April 7, 2015 I use a drafting compass to draw a center line around the bait, then flip the bait to the other side and do it again to guarantee the center line is actually on center. Maybe a dumb question, but, i though a compass only drew circles??... Trying to solve the puzzle in my head, but im drawing a blank... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim2199 Posted April 7, 2015 Report Share Posted April 7, 2015 (edited) I find that when using a compass, have as little pencil protruding out of the holder as possible. Then, lay the pointy needle against the side of the bait. Adjust the gap between the needle and the pencil. You can now run the pencil along the top and bottom edges of the bait, all the while keeping the needle against the flat side and tracing a centerline. Edited April 7, 2015 by Tim2199 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted April 7, 2015 Report Share Posted April 7, 2015 (edited) JR - Bob is using the compass as a woodwork scriber. There are lots of ways of achieving this marking out of the centerline: My method: I have a block of wood with several holes at various distances to the base. I jam a pencil in the most suitable, place the lure blank on the table and run a line around. This line is not central, in fact it is better if it is a fraction off. I flip over the blank and repeat. This gives me two parallel lines and exactly between them is the imaginary centerline that I work to. When you are carving, it is a good idea to add a few more lines at various distances, say 1/4 thickness. These help you keep your carving symmetrical which is most important. Never start hacking at a piece of timber until you have the lines down. Dave Edited April 7, 2015 by Vodkaman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRammit Posted April 7, 2015 Report Share Posted April 7, 2015 I see... Yall are starting out with a "block".. I draft a template on paper, trace onto a flat wood strips and make cut outs..... Was racking my brain trying to figure these methods into my process, but cant fit a square peg in a round hole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim2199 Posted April 7, 2015 Report Share Posted April 7, 2015 I think as long as the wood has flat sides (whether it is a block or already cutout with the profile of your bait design) the mentioned methods will work for you. A very simple method, although not as precise as Dave's, involves only a sharpie and a flat surface. If your bait is cut out into the profile of your stencil, measure and mark the center (say on the top edge of the bait). Now with your bait lying on its side on the flat surface, firmly hold the pen and line it up with the mark. You can now gently spin you bait around and you get a decent centerline traced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted April 7, 2015 Report Share Posted April 7, 2015 Tim - just as accurate as mine. JR - Same method as me, I print out my PDF sheet of profiles, glue on to strips of wood, cut out the profiles, THEN mark. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted April 7, 2015 Report Share Posted April 7, 2015 Dave mentions an important point about symmetry. I started out whacking away at a blank, hoping to get it right but sometimes ending up with a toothpick. After shaping a lot of crankbaits bodies, I understood that it was impossible for me to just eyeball what material needed to be removed from a blank to keep it symmetrical. Wood grain will fool your eye every time. If you round over baits with a router, good on ya, but that won't work with all bait shapes. If you hand shape baits as I do, taking the trouble to mark the limits of where you plan to round off the corners and how you plan to taper the nose and tail will go a long way toward getting a symmetrical bait body. A compass, a small plastic ruler, and a bendable plastic straight edge are your friends. Yes, it's a PITA to draw all those little bitty lines. But the end product will look straight and swim much better. Crankbait building is basically an exercise in control and precision. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jigginpig Posted April 7, 2015 Report Share Posted April 7, 2015 Honestly, to avoid frustration, you are so much better off to build a batch of baits that are as close to identical as you can manage. PVC board is good for this because you can at least control for density, as one PVC board is more like another than one wooden board is like another wooden board, even from the same tree. Also, PVC need not be sealed or treated prior to testing, and the solid white color makes testing easy, as you are able to see it in the water better. The real trick is to not spend all the time on making a pretty lure until you know your bait is going to perform to your requirements, THEN spend time on the looks of it. So make a dozen identical baits, but vary the angle of the cut for the lip. Find the angle that works best, then try different shapes of bill. And so forth. Once you have a good stable bait to work with, doll it up to your heart's content. Your bait looks really nice, I don't think that will be a problem for you. If you are planning on using it with a downrigger anyway, I would go with a smaller bill in a cut that is more diagonal to the centerline. Such a configuration will not dive well on its own, but will have a good side to side action, and since the downrigger is taking it to depth, extra diving will not be needed anyway. Keep posting results. Cheers! SS 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkNY Posted April 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2015 jigginpig, great advice! thanks. Yes I was a little anxious to finish one bait completely. Wanted to go through the entire process and see how i liked it before i ordered another grands worth of materials. ;-) Im hooked now so its time to get down to buisness and make a bait that performs the way i want and more importantly catch fish. Not sure im ready for PVC as ive been a woodworker and woodcarver for a long time so im comfortable with wood. But i understand your points about PVC so ill keep it on the list. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jigginpig Posted April 7, 2015 Report Share Posted April 7, 2015 I like wood too. PVC could be just a good proxy for wood in the design phase because of dimensional stability and resistance to swelling. But wood is good too, I use both. I love balsa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRammit Posted April 7, 2015 Report Share Posted April 7, 2015 Didnt mean to hijack the post over something as simple as drawing a line, but why not just run a ruler from nose to tail?? That is a nice lookin bait!.. Wish i could add to the advice, but i havnt got one right yet either... However, im gonna take jigginpig's advice.. Ive seen a few of Vodkaman's videos, not a drop of paint on his baits... If it dont work, it aint finished anyway... Form follows function Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 JR - yes, you could use a rule, but then we would have nothing to write about. I own an Iwata airbrush and that has never sniffed a drop of paint either. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 Here's a thread about marking a centerline on wood blanks. There are several tools built just for this purpose. Read post #16 to see my home made solution. It couldn't be any easier to build and is extremely accurate if you set it up right. You can make adjustments that would have to be measured in the thousandths if you were so inclined. Ben http://www.tackleunderground.com/community/topic/26871-wood-marking-gauge/?hl=%2Bmarking+%2Bguage#entry206039 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRammit Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 Picture says a thousand words... I was thinking of the center between the belly and the back... All makes sense now....... I use thin strips of wood, 2 for each bait... My center line is where they are glued together...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 A tip I learned here on TU somewhere, when gluing two pieces together, mark the faces with a marker pen before joining. Now it is impossible to lose the line by sanding. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyonline Posted April 8, 2015 Report Share Posted April 8, 2015 Some dye in the glue also works well, food colouring works in PVA wood glue, or specific epoxy pigments if you're so inclined. Personally, I just hold a fine felt tipped pen/textar in my hand and use one finger as the stop but I'm not after super repeatability. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
