gliders Posted May 5, 2015 Report Share Posted May 5, 2015 Sorry if going over old ground, I currently seal with epoxy, however I would like to try propionate sealer, problem is I cant source prop granules in scotland, tried eurolures many times no reply.searching net produces suggestions for variety of plastic cups , packing material etc.have any of you guys come up with an easy to obtain ,proven over time substitute for prop granules? I imagine cups, packing materials etc. Are made from various plastics so would produce various results, any good time proven advice much appreciated. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted May 5, 2015 Report Share Posted May 5, 2015 I think TU reports about results with plastic substitutes for propionate have been very uneven. Cracking when dried, inability to get it dissolved, etc. So that's a crap shoot and there are several undercoating alternatives that have proven less troublesome. I first bought prop from Swede, a TU member who unfortunately passed away a few years ago, then from a TU member in South Carolina whose name I dis-remember. Apparently there can be several versions of propionate and I think the one used by lure builders is cellulose propionate. A Google search shows quite a few sources, although it may be hard to source clear pellets. Nowadays, I use either epoxy or UV cured polyester resin for undercoating. I tried the latter (Solarez) for topcoating but didn't like it; however it works fine for undercoating and is a fast and easy alternative to multiple (5- dips in propionate dissolved in acetone. Brush it on, rotate it for a couple of minutes while it levels out, then expose it to sunlight for 10-15 minutes and you're ready to go. I know "sunlight" might be a problem in Scotland but mine has cured just as well on cloudy days because there is always UV from the sun penetrating to Earth regardless of the weather. The cure process is not temperature sensitive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted May 5, 2015 Report Share Posted May 5, 2015 BobP - probably Palmetto Balsa. He sent me a few bags, but he hasn't been around for a couple of years now. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gliders Posted May 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2015 Cheers replies guys, have been using slightly thinned e-tex for a while now and good results, drying time a pain though. Might look into polyester , sounds interesting.i make a number of jerk/gliders, from meranti for pike which is quite grainy, the e-tex seals and smooths prior to paint, foil etc. But bit of a pain due to time scale prior to weighting. P.s.we do get plenty sun here, nearly 3 full days last month. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Posted May 5, 2015 Report Share Posted May 5, 2015 Gliders, I used the plastic cups years ago..they were the clear/frosted type plastic ...you have to use Virgin lacquer thinner to melt them..regular lacquer thinner isn't hot enough to melt them...Nathan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gliders Posted May 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2015 Cheers nathan, looks like cups etc. a bit hit and miss, I am trying to see if there is better alternative to thin epoxy as a 1 coat sealer/primer prior to ballast that is as durable but quicker. The plus for me with epoxy is it is another hard barrier layer ,but always looking for any better options.how would you rate prop in this respect? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted May 5, 2015 Report Share Posted May 5, 2015 I've never used propionate, but I do remember a thread quite some time ago that told what symbol to look for on the bottom of the plastic cups. There's a certain recycling symbol, or lettering, that indicates what type of plastic it is so it can be sorted correctly. Hopefully someone will remember the thread I'm talking about and can post the info. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 I occasionally still use prop (still got a little in the garage) on a few balsa bass baits and it seems to hold up OK. The catch is you need a very thin solution of prop to dip baits (otherwise you get drips and sheets), so it requires at least 5 and as many as 10 dips, with some drying time between dips to build up a coating that is optimal, then allowing the coating to dry further overnight to become really hard. So to me, prop seems sort of "old school" and there are other products that are just as good and faster to use. I use Devcon Two Ton epoxy, which cures faster than Etex. And as noted above, UV cured polyester is very quick to use and provides protection that is as good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gliders Posted May 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 Thanks reply bobp, have tried most options in past and keep coming back to epoxy, might give the solarez a try though, have used similar for flies in past and d2t for same.How do you find its self levelling properties v etex? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 The lures that I make have to withstand Bawal, which is a piranha type fish with literally bone crushing jaws. I was only testing to see if the lures caught fish. I never even added a top coat or paint. The fish loved them but the prop seal coat had no chance, one fish would rip it to shreds. It was a good test for the tiny lures though, as they held together against 6Lb piranha. Prop is a very convenient seal coat. Yes, ten dips is a good plan, for a good seal and a smooth surface. You can dip a dozen lures while the kettle is on, so it is no big deal time wise. The top coat has to be quality, especially for fish with teeth, but this is true no matter what the seal coat is, if you want to preserve your paint job. Next time I build lures for these piranha, it will be a thinned epoxy to seal and a thick epoxy top coat for protection, still no plans to start painting though. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gliders Posted May 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 Cheers dave, I use 4to5 coats etex topcoats as it is for pike , so dont like sound of ten dips to achieve what I get with 1 of thinned epoxy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 (edited) Not sure about which you are asking, but - D2T levels out as well as any slow cure epoxy, that is to say excellently. The UV cure polyester from Solarez I brush on and then put it on my lure turner to level out for 5-10 minutes before curing it. It is a fairly thick product with a viscosity slightly less than freshly mixed D2T. One coat is plenty thick for a bass bait and probably for a musky bait too, just IMO. An added plus is that Solarez gloss resin is less than $30 per quart, which makes it very cost effective. Edited May 6, 2015 by BobP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 Ten coats does sound like a lot of work, but believe me, with a bit of organization, it is not. For pike and musky, stick with what Bob is telling you. DAve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gliders Posted May 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 Cheers guys might give solarez a try , unfortunately it works out just over 100 dollars a quart here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted May 7, 2015 Report Share Posted May 7, 2015 I would think there's a supplier of UV cured polyester somewhere closer to you than California. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gliders Posted May 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2015 Cheers bobp , thats the price from shops in u.k, just to clarify I get good results with thinned e-tex for primer/sealer but wondered if there was now a propionate type mix that was as good but quicker./easier especialy when doing a number of big lures at a time.Years ago I use to use sanding sealer with o.k. results but settled e-tex last 2 years.i wonder if a good ,modern ,possibly resin based sanding sealer would give a similar but more consistent result to prop.Going have a look at make up of some to see if any are basically dissolved plastic, any thoughts appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gliders Posted May 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2015 Hello again bob, just found solarez sanding resin at 30 quid a litre, is this what you are using ? Can it be thinned? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted May 7, 2015 Report Share Posted May 7, 2015 (edited) I think crankbait builders use Solarez Gloss Resin, designed for a topcoat on surf boards. There are a lot of different Solarez varieties for different uses but most of us have only used that one, so I can't comment on their sanding resin. Someone here on TU asked the company about thinning Solarez and got the info from them but I don't remember what the thinner was - you might find it with a search of the posts. I like an "undercoating" on a bait, i.e., a tough durable waterproof coating on the raw wood that acts as a second barrier against damage and water absorption. Many "sanding sealers" are neither tough nor very waterproof - they just prevent wood grain from rising. I like a slow cure 30 minute glue epoxy. Devcon Two Ton is an example but there are many other brands that would fill the bill. It takes only one coat, levels well and cures faster (~6 hrs) than Etex. A UV cured resin has similar physical qualities when cured and is super fast. Here in the States, it's much cheaper than epoxy or many other candidate products. UV cured resins are used in lots of processes, like making printed paper glossy, etc., so they are widely available - you might research your area and contact suppliers to discuss your needs. It's a relatively new product for us bait builders so there's not much depth of knowledge about it. Edited May 7, 2015 by BobP 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gliders Posted May 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2015 Thanks bobp, good food for thought.I like e-tex as hard seal /barrier for same reasons, going to have another look at wooden boat epoxies of which there are lots made here and less costly than imported u.s. stuff ,cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty's Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 I sent some of that to a guy who put it through his machine and gave me the chemical compounds it's made of, and all the currently available commercial chemical names for it. It's readily available. There is a company in Somerset NJ who makes the stuff. I do not remember the name but google cellulose propionate you should find it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gliders Posted May 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 Cheers salty,s but seems harder to get hold of in u.k., am erring toward sticking with epoxy , however a dip able hard sealer appeals. Thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty's Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 So just in case someone is searching for this I pulled out the spectrometer printout. The sample I sent in has a 74.24% match to a product made by Bayer called Cellidor CP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t_man7 Posted July 4, 2021 Report Share Posted July 4, 2021 How are you guys applying the propionate sealer once you’ve broken it down with acetone? Dipped? Also what should the consistency be like? Thanks, - Tommy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis Posted July 4, 2021 Report Share Posted July 4, 2021 6 hours ago, t_man7 said: How are you guys applying the propionate sealer once you’ve broken it down with acetone? Dipped? Also what should the consistency be like? Thanks, - Tommy Dipping is how I applied it many years ago. It was essentially like dipping in water but was using to fill small pin holes/voids. I would dip about 3 times and be good to go on the baits I was molding at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglinarcher Posted July 4, 2021 Report Share Posted July 4, 2021 I do know that there is a knock off of AlumiUV that Engineered Angler on YouTube has tested, and liked. It is about half price to AlumiUV, but taks a long time to ship from China. Still, can you get on Amazon and order the China Knock-off from UK? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
