What Characteristics Determine Great Crankbait Vs An Average One?

[flipper2]

I am trying to determine what traits make a great crank bait, besides the number of fish it catches. I have built some baits that fish great, in my opinion, as well as catch bass. But in the back of my mind, I still wonder how they compare to the ones that the crank bait masters such as Fritz, Wright, or Beck would like to fish.

[jonister]

If they run OK and catch fish... I think there's an actual science behind it all but I'm not to that point yet. If your talking about manufactured baits, every once in a while you will get a lure that is different in a batch and catches more fish due to some slight difference in the bait. Our river guides might go through 100s of different lures until they find those small few that the fish just hammer, even on the bad days. I've heard that the tournament bass guys do this too. But for trails, id look into rattle, lip design, body shape.. etc etc. like i said i have not figured out the science though  

[jigginpig]

I catch a lot more fish on the great ones. 

 

I am a big fan of Rapala Risto Raps. I always was especially into the tiny little #4 size. I have about 40 of them. 

 

Of those 40, I have fished them all, and fairly hard. I have gone in after them more than once, because they are small and you have to fish them on light line. 

 

I have eight that are in the "Vampire" color. It is my favorite color of the lot. 

 

Of that eight, I have one that I caught three bass over seven pounds on, in Colorado. 

 

Seven pound bass in Colorado are about as rare as honest politicians. So to have one bait, no matter what it is, account for three over the 7 pound mark is almost insanely unlikely. 

 

I looked at that bait a lot, as you might expect. Did as much non-invasive testing as you could do. I have no idea why that bait is so good. Not just those big fish, either. That little devil catches fish better than a flock of cormorants. 

 

Before you look to the obvious explanation that I tie that bait on most often, I don't. I use it the least. Heck, I quit using it, because at that point I was terrified to lose it. I just like to look at it, and contemplate the mysteries of the universe. 

 

What I am getting at here is this: I have no earthly idea how to answer your question. Oh sure, there are sets of well established and universal parameters about the variable of design and how they impact crankbait BEHAVIOR, but as to what makes a "great" crankbait great, no, I am afraid I can't help you there. 

I think they are full of demons or something. 

Edited May 9, 2015 by jigginpig

[BobP]

A lot of pro tourney fishermen pool test the crankbaits they are given in bulk by sponsors to find a relatively small percentage of them they will use.  As well as running depth, they want to see and feel the action of the baits.  This is sort of disheartening if you think about it.  The baits are made to as consistent a quality as possible by a manufacturer but an expert can still determine that maybe 25% are really good baits, 50% are just average, and 25% are not very good.  Can we as custom wood builders do it better, more exactly, more repeatable than a factory building plastic baits?  I doubt it.  It takes time on the water to develop a feel about crankbaits but you can do it if you pay attention.  Take one of your crankbaits that really catches fish well.  Using a sensitive graphite rod and braid or fluoro line, throw it a few times and note the vibration it causes in your rod.  Now take one that you tried to build exactly the same but doesn't catch fish and do the same thing.  If you pay close attention, I bet you'll be able to tell there's a difference in the timing and intensity of the vibration.

 

I build lots of shallow flat sided baits and the ones that catch fish best have a regular sharp staccato vibration that I can feel in my rod when retrieving them.  I can't generalize this to other style baits because they are different by design, but it does give me ideas about how I want other designs to perform.  And if I live long enough, build enough crankbaits, test enough, and pay enough attention I have hope.    

[fatfingers]

Cool topic.

The following is only my humble opinion, of course, and it pertains almost strictly to musky baits, although I've built a lot of bass and walleye baits over the years too.

A lot of baits run, but not all baits have the juice. Sort of like "All men die, but not all men live."

The action of a bait is usually the first prerequisite for a winning plug. (Once upon a time baits were called plugs. I love that word. It sort of nostalgic in a lure-maker-nerd sort of way)

The profile and the lip and the choice of wood, resin, or PVC are also huge factors and like the other guys said, I wish I had all the answers, but I don't. I know color can make a day and night difference at times.

I've spent an awful lot of time experimenting with lip designs. I've taken proven bait profiles that I designed and made the lips bigger and smaller. I've changed the shape and the thickness and the angle. I've also made combinations of those changes.

I've concluded that in some cases, there is a distinct sweet spot and if you go just a tad beyond that sweet spot in either direction, the fish ignore the bait, despite the profile, choice of wood or resin, or color.

I think baits with a wobble that is too wide are worthless. Not talking about a bait that hunts, just wobble.

Then there is the subject of jerk baits and gliders. Now you have to remember, bass guys and musky guys use the term "jerk bait" but in musky fishing the term is usually referring to a long lipless bait. Anyway, jerk baits and gliders are a great example of how a bait can run seemingly in accordance with its specific purpose but not catch fish. I've made some that produce amazing results, and I've made others that are only good for giant key fobs. Once in a while guys will post videos of gliders under water and I can pretty much look at them and tell they will not produce a lot of fish...if any.

Same thing with cranks and especially twitchers and wake baits. I'll see a video of a musky bait, sometimes made by an extremely popular maker and I'll just shake my head. I don't like a crank that wobbles too widely at normal speeds. They just don't seem to produce much. I think you can go the other way and still have a lot of latitude, meaning you can build a very tight wobble and still catch fish. But, there is still the sweet spot for any given bait and sometimes a not so tight wobble or vibration is better than too much.

Of course, there are those days when the fish are chewing anything and everything that moves and on those days you could tie your car keys to your line and catch fish.

I also think that guy holding the rod is a factor in how effective a bait is. Some guys are just excellent at casting cranks and imparting the right amount of action and speed by manipulating the rod and reel. I've also watched guys use jerk baits and it is poetry in motion. Others just cannot get the hang of it and will condemn a popular bait because they are simply unable to get the rhythm needed to make the bait perform as designed. The Suick is a perfect example. Even then, a Suick made of wood and a Suick made of a plastic compound have slightly different actions.

To further complicate the matter, the wooden Suick was never made with a bullet proof clear coat and often takes on water after the finish is breached by hooks or teeth. (Re-sealing an out of the package wooden Suick has a pronounced effect on its action...and the effect is usually negative) A "water logged" Suick does not have the action that a dry Suick does and some guys preferred it water logged and some did not. Those who preferred it wet would actually soak the bait before using it.

And finally there is size. You can make a bait too small and you can make a bait too big. Again there is a zone and within that zone there is usually a sweet spot.

Oh, and did I mention the body of water as a variable? On some bodies of water they want smaller baits and the bigger ones are either far less productive or even useless. And vice versa. Color is also a huge factor on certain waters.

Sorry to ramble on, but this is a cool topic and one that I have spent a lot of time working with as a builder.

Edited May 10, 2015 by fatfingers

[jonister]

What about a "sure fire" way to make a crank that wont peel out even when burned? Fatfingers, you got my mind turning at the mention of Suick, i had never seen until i read your post and decided to google it. Ive got to say they look great, i could see myself getting some for the wall

[Skeeter]

"But in the back of my mind, I still wonder how they compare to the ones that the crank bait masters such as Fritz, Wright, or Beck would like to fish."

 

What would you like to know about their baits?

 

Skeeter

[flipper2]

Hi Skeeter, Well it's hard to explain. I'm not sure I would be able to identify the traits that could make my plug better than any other one. Would it be how it swims or suspends etc. or could it be something that is unidentifiable that just happens? All I know is that those guys killed us up there for years.

[BobP]

OK, Skeeter, don't be coy.  What kind of action and "feel" do those guys want when they talk about a great crankbait?  I know you've talked with them, probably knocked back a few with them, and have made crankbaits for many of them.  If not, you'd be drummed out of Lexington.  So in your opinion, what kind of action does the perfect 10 ft diver have?

 

Fess up!

[jonister]

And how do you properly make one? i promise i wont sell mine! i suck at painting

Edited May 11, 2015 by jonister

[BobP]

jonister, First, assume your bait body is symmetrical and the lip and hardware have been installed on its center line.  I think the greatest cause for baits "peeling out" is a lip whose action overpowers the the bait.  On shallow baits, the lip is too long.  On baits where the line tie is on the lip surface, it is often because the line tie is too close to the body (closer to the body = more action).  The action of a bait is a balance of the lip action and body; one way to correct a mismatch is to re-balance by adding ballast to the lure body.  Another way is to trim the lip length on either style of lip.

[fish pirate]

I've found over the years thru allot of testing that it is purely the action of the bait along with the mood of the fish. I design baits that shake a rod to the handle but one of my top baits has a belly roll to it that has won a lot of money over the past 5 years. I know during testing that if it will catch fish with out paint then I have a winner. It is true that it is 80 percent action 20 percent color but if your using the wrong tool at the wrong time it will fail 100 percent of the time!

[jonister]

Bob, that just fixed one of my baits, thank you! I had not really taken that into as much consideration as i should have. You answered my question exactly. thankyou!

[O'l Robzilla]

Every fisherman, and research that I have done leads me in this direction. Fishermen want an erratic bait. one that doesn't follow the norm. the want a bait that screams I'm in trouble. One that looks hurt, swimming different than the rest of the bait fish. something that might stand out from the others but looks the same as the rest of the baitfish. A wounded baitfish makes it easy to eat and the fish doesn't have to spend as much effort in eating it. Remember fish don't like to waste calories on a meal, it has to be big enough reward for it to make it worth while. Yes, big baits mean bigger fish but don't go overboard. Do the bait fish, fishermen always say, match the hatch (the hatched out baitfish) so do this but maybe ad a colour or a kicker feather to the back treble. make that sucker say "I'm having difficulty swimming!" The predators will pick up on that. even adding a kill dot might give a slight edge, red around the gill plate. Hope this gives you a little food for thought.

 

Zilla.

[wchilton]

I've had a few occasions where one bait drastically out-performed others just like it.  The first was back in college when one panther martin spinner I used just slayed the rainbow trout while others of the exact same size and color were ignored.  It got to the point my brother and I were fighting over who got to use it and we had to take turns.  I always thought it must have put out some different sound than others because the colors were the same and there's not a lot of variation in action with an in-line spinner.  Never did find out what it was.  The bait was lost to an underwater snag.

 

The next time I was aware of this happening was with a freshwater jerkbait a friend of mine picked up at Wal-Mart.  For some reason about 25% of this particular model just out-fished anything else including every other type of jerkbait we tried and even live bait.  We actually had other fishermen getting angry at us for catching so many fish on these while they got nothing.  My friends and I were able to acquire about 10 or 12 of these very special baits and caught tons of fish on them (all species) for about half a year until they were all finally destroyed.  We were using them on inshore/saltwater species so they got chewed by toothy critters and banged on the rocks where we fished and a few were simply taken away by something larger that couldn't be stopped with the gear we were using.  Color of the bait was not a factor...the good ones worked no matter how much paint was chewed off.  Possibly a slightly different action or sound was what made the difference.  I did save a few of the good baits after they were busted beyond repair but have not to this day figured out exactly what made these lures so productive.  Here's a pic of one of those I preserved.

 

 

I attempted to repair this one with a new lip, but it never worked the same again.  This is an inexpensive knock-off of a Yozuri Tobimaru minnow.  Old version of the bait long out of production and size is 4.75 inch, and about 5/8 oz.

[JRammit]

This is a such a great topic, because as the most intelligent species on the plannet, we pretend that our efforts here are to understand dynamics, engineering and applied science... When in reality, we spend all this time and effort attemting to trick a creature with a brain the size of a marble... Ha!

I think the most common misconception in fisherman is that fish only strike out of hunger.. Of course they do, they gotta eat... But if that were the only reason, none of us would have pics in the trophy room.. Lets use the Largemouth bass as an example since the majority of us are familiar with her:

Natural selection and evolution have made her an extremely proficient hunter!

- she knows her agility is no match for her smaller prey, so she relies mainly on the ambush (which is why we fish cover)

- she knows her larger retina gives her the advantage over smaller prey in low light conditions (which is why we get up at the crack of dawn)

- somehow she even knows the time of year to leave her cover and hunt open water schooling bait fish (which is why we have a shad everything in our tackle box)

Point is, she isnt starving, our lure isnt the first thing shes seen all day.. Match whatever hatch you want, or throw something different, she may turn her nose up at it, or she may hammer it.. Its her decision..... Ive caught a bass on a craw bait, with the tail of a 5" shad still sticking out of its throat, had a bass burp up a 7" plastic worm as i unhooked it from my 6" plastic worm, even caught a bass on the same 6" worm that was casually swimming through a school of minnows.... These fish were not hungry

Perhaps her only flaw is the the same flaw that "killed the cat"... I like to compare fish to other animals because some behaviors are similar.. Think of a well fed house cat chasing a laser pointer, he dont know what hes gonna do when he gets it, but he HAS to have it!!!

Some good examples on this thread about one crank out performing another, but from my experience what works on one day will not necessarily work on the next...

What makes a good crank bait? Or good lure in general?...... Great question!... Id say ask a fish....

[JRammit]

This is a such a great topic, because as the most intelligent species on the plannet, we pretend that our efforts here are to understand dynamics, engineering and applied science... When in reality, we spend all this time and effort attemting to trick a creature with a brain the size of a marble... Ha!

I think the most common misconception in fisherman is that fish only strike out of hunger.. Of course they do, they gotta eat... But if that were the only reason, none of us would have pics in the trophy room.. Lets use the Largemouth bass as an example since the majority of us are familiar with her:

Natural selection and evolution have made her an extremely proficient hunter!

- she knows her agility is no match for her smaller prey, so she relies mainly on the ambush (which is why we fish cover)

- she knows her larger retina gives her the advantage over smaller prey in low light conditions (which is why we get up at the crack of dawn)

- somehow she even knows the time of year to leave her cover and hunt open water schooling bait fish (which is why we have a shad everything in our tackle box)

Point is, she isnt starving, our lure isnt the first thing shes seen all day.. Match whatever hatch you want, or throw something different, she may turn her nose up at it, or she may hammer it.. Its her decision..... Ive caught a bass on a craw bait, with the tail of a 5" shad still sticking out of its throat, had a bass burp up a 7" plastic worm as i unhooked it from my 6" plastic worm, even caught a bass on the same 6" worm that was casually swimming through a school of minnows.... These fish were not hungry

Perhaps her only flaw is the the same flaw that "killed the cat"... I like to compare fish to other animals because some behaviors are similar.. Think of a well fed house cat chasing a laser pointer, he dont know what hes gonna do when he gets it, but he HAS to have it!!!

Some good examples on this thread about one crank out performing another, but from my experience what works on one day will not necessarily work on the next...

What makes a good crank bait? Or good lure in general?...... Great question!... Id say ask a fish....

Think i got a little off topic there, when i start talking about fishing i tend to ramble (ask any of my friends), lost my train of though...... Meant to say, i think we spend too much time getting our baits to resemble a fish's prey rather than spark a fish's curiosity.... A great bait does something a fish doesnt understand.. Since they dont have hands or paws, they explore the world through their mouth...... Get a fish curious, get her in the boat!

[Seeking 56]

JRammit,

 

In response to your last post, I don't know if studies for bass feeding habits exist but when it comes to muskies, they eat 20% of their weight.  So, if a 50lb muskie can eat 10lbs of fish or other critters and if he consumes it all in one day it would explain why fish holding spots don't produce day in and day out.  And if you're fishing during those off days well, you'll tend to think it's the lure's fault.

 

Just my opinion, but I don't think lure matters, but more being at the right place at the right time.

 

Here are some esox pics, courtesy of the internet.

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Edited May 14, 2015 by Seeking 56

[JRammit]

Seeking,

Ive never fished musky, i dont know why? I lived 8 years in Colorado, they are prevalent there, but i stuck to trout and walleye....... I couldnt agree more about right place right time! Some days you could probably throw a bare hook and still catch fish.... But other days, for all the species im familiar with, bait choice does matter!

[JRammit]

JRammit,

In response to your last post, I don't know if studies for bass feeding habits exist but when it comes to muskies, they eat 20% of their weight. So, if a 50lb muskie can eat 10lbs of fish or other critters and if he consumes it all in one day it would explain why fish holding spots don't produce day in and day out. And if you're fishing during those off days well, you'll tend to think it's the lure's fault.

Just my opinion, but I don't think lure matters, but more being at the right place at the right time.

Here are some esox pics, courtesy of the internet.

Cool pics!... Apex predator!... Didnt say how these fish were captured...?

[Seeking 56]

Nah, just saw the pics without a story.

 

As for walleyes, I caught a 30'' trolling close to 5 mph for musky with a homemade 8'' crank, it was like WTH??  Huge fish for those waters.  If you're referring to stream trout perhaps but I remember watching a fishing show way back, they were filming in Great Bear or Great Slave lake can never remember which one, but one holds monster pike and the other monster lakers.  Anyways, they caught a huge laker that coughed up what must've been a 3lb smallie.

 

Hopefully, you'll get another chance at muskies!

 

More pics courtesy of the internet.

 

Sorry to highjack this thread.

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[JRammit]

Nah, just saw the pics without a story.

As for walleyes, I caught a 30'' trolling close to 5 mph for musky with a homemade 8'' crank, it was like WTH?? Huge fish for those waters. If you're referring to stream trout perhaps but I remember watching a fishing show way back, they were filming in Great Bear or Great Slave lake can never remember which one, but one holds monster pike and the other monster lakers. Anyways, they caught a huge laker that coughed up what must've been a 3lb smallie.

Hopefully, you'll get another chance at muskies!

More pics courtesy of the internet.

Sorry to highjack this thread.

Seeking,

Pm sent

[Skeeter]

We will get more into the actual crankbaits later. What I am about to give some of you is a real dose of truth. It is not the glamorous picture that the press paints for us. I have lived here in Lexington for 17 years. Some of the best crankbait fishermen in the world live within a 50 mile radius of my home. And trust me, there are plenty of them that you have never heard of. But, we can start with the ones mentioned above.

 

 

 

To begin with, you have to realize that these guys are pure "fishing machines". I have watched them fish. They rarely show up at the lake with a $70,000 Ranger in tow. They practice out of aluminum or old boats. They do not want to be recognized. They will plant brush piles for tournaments and then when it is over they will go back and drag them off of the spot. They have a tremendous amount of contacts that they can call to help them find the fish. Some spend time with crappie fishermen so that they can learn where other brush piles are. Plus, they spend a lot of time on the water. Their day is a run and gun method when it is time to crankbait. They run to a spot, fish it quickly and thoroughly and then the pull up the trolling motor and move to the next one keeping notes on each spot. They will do this at a grueling pace 6 days a week 8-12 hrs a day. In large tournaments that go to other lakes, they will travel together taking their own boats. They practice individually so that they can cover much more water that way. Then at dinner it is time to share what they have learned.

 

 

 

Everyone here on this site can fish many of the same baits that they do. Most of you probably own some already. Bomber 6 and 7 A’s, Fat free Shads, small Rebels, Shad Raps, Rapala DT’s, and Bagleys of all kinds. These are just some of the store bought baits that you can study for their action.

 

 

 

Next are the the custom crankbaits. The deep baits that have been altered and have been custom weighted (loaded). These seem to be the ones that everyone wants to know about. Baits are loaded for two reasons only….. to get to the maximum depth of the lure as quickly as possible and to control the speed that a lure will rise when stopped. I watched Fritts fish ledges during a FLW championship on lake Murray years ago. He did not make 100 yard casts trying get the lure down to the stumps lining the channel ledge. He did not try to cover as much of the ledge as possible on one cast. He made concise casts with a lure that will dive quicker to cover the area. This keeps him from having to throw his shoulders out of the socket trying to make super long casts every time. A properly loaded crankbait is much more comfortable and efficient to fish.

 

 

Skeeter

[flipper2]

Thank you Skeeter, This is starting to confirm what I have thought all along. The real key is knowing your territory, lots of time on the water and quality lures to aid in whatever task you may trying to accomplish that day. There are no magical traits to the baits.  Just baits that have been altered to dive/cast better, suspend or rise up at certain rates that they prefer. The real magic comes from the anglers. Just so happens these fisherman and there lure builders really understand what characteristics they need in a plug to accomplish the tasks ..

[Skeeter]

That is a huge part of it. However, there are crankbaits that catch more fish than others. We all have had a bait that just seems to catch them better. These are the baits that are just made right and the baits that you should study.  

 

I am a student of deep water cranking. It is the most difficult fishing technique that I have ever done.  Lord only knows how many casts I have made with a deep running crankbait. Over all of the years I have learned the "feel" of a crankbait that will work better than others. Fritts made the comment once that he can make a few casts with a crankbait and tell if it will catch fish or not. I can do this too. However, I also know the feel of a bait that will be "special". It is a feel that you aquire through years of cranking. You just know that it is not a case of if the lure will get bit........ but when.

 

Skeeter