hazmail Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 Been looking at these for a while but most are too small and made for polishing stones etc--Also what is used for the 'cutting compound', I hear Pumice is good but I have no idea what else it's used for (except grinding girls heels) so can't locate a place where I could buy it???Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 Never built one Pete, but I seem to remember reading about someone using a cement mixer for this. It was one of those small portable jobs that mix a bag or two of cement at a time. Don't remember what aggregate they used though. Maybe it was just regular sand? Good to see you around again. Hope all is well for you. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkSpolarich Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 Haz, i have no experience with a tumbler but my first thought was how would you maintain consistency between pieces? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 This is one of those ideas that gets talked about once a year, but never gets built. I have thought about it myself a few times, when I was cutting hundreds of bodies on the duplicator machine, which is why I suspect you are thinking now. We have to think about exactly what the operation will achieve. It certainly is not a cutting action, more a pummeling action were the surface of the lure receives a good beating, which knocks down all the machined ridges and corners. The consistency should be very good, given that each body will be struck many thousands of times in a completely random order. The consistency would be in the law of averages. My thoughts are that sand will be ineffective, in a short time scale. I am thinking decorative marble chips or something similar. Cheap enough and readily available at garden centers. Driven in a small cement mixer. Could even manufacture something suitable with a slow A/C motor from a tumble dryer. With this just being an opinion, you may want to start small with sand and work your way up to half bricks. Once the timing is established, it would just be a case of throwing in a hundred bodies, set the timer, power up and walk away. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass100 Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 This is something that could be very time consuming to get right. You might have to play with the speed of the tumbler depending on the type of wood and media you are using, you might be able to use one type of media to smooth your baits or you may need a combination of a couple and then you might have to use a different kind for each type of wood, and then there is the timing. You may be able to use one time or you might have to switch the time based on what type of wood you use or how much material you put in the tumbler. Just the size of the baits alone could change all of these variables. I would love to see somebody get this right because it is very much achievable. I am assuming if someone is using this system it is specific to their operation, materials, and quality demands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 Good points Bass100. Pete is the man, if anyone here can crack this one. I am going to be building a new duplicator machine pretty soon, so I am particularly interested in this project. DAve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 (edited) I have read a lot of discussion on this topic on wood forums from guys that make small wooden puzzles, beads, etc..... seams to be very poor results as far as what I would consider a sanded finish. Seams relief of sharp edges and giving an overall "softening" to get a worn/distressed look is great but it isn't an effective method for any sort of decent sanding. Nut shells, garnet, strips of sandpaper, plastic beads, abrasion blocks, and other items utilized in tumblers, some try using shakers, and plenty of examples of loading up pieces with 1 inch pieces of sandpaper and doubling up in thick pillow cases and chucking in a dryer. Another issue is lip slots would likely need cutting last along with any ballast holes. Edited May 10, 2015 by Travis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkSpolarich Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 Why not just seal the baits with something like propionate? Granted, it has been several years since I made a wooden crankbait and even then it wasn't in any quantity that prohibited hand sanding. Seems to me that if the intent is to remove duplicator marks then a coating would be quicker and easier than sanding for high volume production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 Why not just seal the baits with something like propionate? Granted, it has been several years since I made a wooden crankbait and even then it wasn't in any quantity that prohibited hand sanding. Seems to me that if the intent is to remove duplicator marks then a coating would be quicker and easier than sanding for high volume production. Poe's Crankbaits..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctenn Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 Some metallic cartidge reloaders use stainless steal pins for case cleaning that might work. There are also small creamic triangles or pyramids that might work. Carl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughesy Posted May 11, 2015 Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 We used one for years sanding thousands of balsa baits. It worked great. We lined the inside with 120 grit paper and also threw in a bunch of foam sanding pads. It was just a matter of timing. Leave them in to long and they would be to small. You just had to check them every once in a while. It didn't take long to figure out how long to leave them in. They came out of the mixer ready to seal. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkSpolarich Posted May 11, 2015 Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 Poe's Crankbaits..... Ok, so i have been away too long and mind is trying to remember things long forgotten. In this case learning new tricks, even though i have no plans to start making crankbaits again. I will sit back and continue to learn, might come in handy for another hobby i have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis Posted May 11, 2015 Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 Poe's cranks have always been some of the worst finished baits (dimples, uneven spots, etc...) once you get under that paint job. They have a very thick cover coat under the paint job to cover up all the imperfections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkSpolarich Posted May 11, 2015 Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 Yup, i used to love refinishing them and working out the imperfections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkSpolarich Posted May 11, 2015 Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 We used one for years sanding thousands of balsa baits. It worked great. We lined the inside with 120 grit paper and also threw in a bunch of foam sanding pads. It was just a matter of timing. Leave them in to long and they would be to small. You just had to check them every once in a while. It didn't take long to figure out how long to leave them in. They came out of the mixer ready to seal. Tim, would that method work for harder types of wood such as basswood? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted May 11, 2015 Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 (edited) My first couple of duplicator machines left a lot of ridges, an issue I intend to tackle on my next build. The object of the tumble thing is not to give me a super sanded finish, this is just not necessary or even desirable. The aim is to knock down the ridges enough and still have a good key surface, so that a slightly thinned epoxy can do its job. Hughesy - thanks for that input. This sounds very promising. Dave Edited May 11, 2015 by Vodkaman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimP Posted May 11, 2015 Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 Hazmail: I made one years ago to sand toy parts. Worked well to soften the edges. I was mostly using poplar wood. Sand paper (probaby 150 or 220 grit) was attached with spray-on contact cement to the inside of a five gallon plastic bucket. The bucket laid on its side supported by two rollers. And finally one roller had a large home made wooden pulley driven by a very small pulley on the motor to reduce the speed. Sorry I do not recall the exact size. Many charts exist to help you figure speed, google for exact help. I don't think I ever replaced the sand paper and I used it for a couple of years. Surprising how much fine saw dust was in the bucket after a 20 minute spin. Results were uniform within each batch if the same species of wood is used in each batch. I'd put a timer on to kick it off after a prescribed time. It was loud so place it away from your work area if you can. It sounded like shoes in a drier. Good luck, Jim P 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted May 11, 2015 Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 Bob La Londe - I like your suggestion. The down side is the doubling of machine time. Possibly a second motor on the opposite side, following the cutter fairly closely. The link to the same master will need thinking about. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazmail Posted May 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 Thanks everyone, some great input---as Dave and others are saying we don't need a perfect finish, just need to knock down any sharp edged grooves etc. Bobs idea with the brush may be a good solution, and as Dave says, would need its own stylus--I also like the idea of the sponge sanders, very simple. From what I have read about commercial sanders (a lot), drum size and percentage of drum filled is as important as the sanding medium / speed. Anyway at this moment I am looking for a suitable drum (not too big) , thinking of maybe a pickle drum with screw on lid-- OR, a guy down the road sells brewing kits, maybe he has something in the drum range (I'm thinking about 20-25 litre) If you interested in this have a look at -- Kramer industries online.com--- there is some great info here in the 'finishing guides' section. Thank you again everyone for your very generous input. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted May 11, 2015 Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 X2 Pete, I think the topic has advanced this time. JimP's suggestion will be my starting design. 5 gal bucket, rollers, driven by a wiper motor, bicycle chain and sprockets. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughesy Posted May 11, 2015 Report Share Posted May 11, 2015 Tim, would that method work for harder types of wood such as basswood? Mark, I sure it would. It just might take a little longer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkSpolarich Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 Thanks Tim! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clemmy Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 (edited) The show mentioned was "Christian Angler", it was an episode where Lee Sisson showed how he made his baits, and included a part where he used a cement mixer to sand his baits. Now his baits just had the annular lines from his duplicator machines. If I remember correctly, he did not use anything as a media, the lures were their own media. The balsa baits tumbling and rubbing apparently smoothed out the lines. Interestingly, from what I remember, he then would ladle a cup or two of clear sealer into the cement mixer, and ran it some more. Unfortunately, I don't think the video is avaiilable anymore, unless someone saved a copy. Craig Edited May 12, 2015 by clemmy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clemmy Posted May 12, 2015 Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 (edited) Pete, I'm not sure if this method would work for your harder wood. If I remember you use Huon Pine? You might be able to find out by taking some pieces and writing on them in pencil, then put in a tumbler of some sort (dryer set on "fluff"?) if the pencil marks go away, it would seem to be sanding to some extent. I like Hughsey's method of using the sanding sponges. I wonder if you couldn't make this more efficient by glueing the sanding sponge sheeting to short pieces of dowel to give it a bit of weight. That way you are also sanding when the rolled sponge hit the lure and not just when the lure lands on the sponge... Edited May 12, 2015 by clemmy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazmail Posted May 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2015 (edited) Thanks Clemmy--I think they smooth /polish, marble with marble, granite with granite, so I suspect wood to wood, would be good (I'm a poet now). I use all sorts of wood these days, Huon is very rare, and expensive (about $4000 a Cu Meter ) - have been using milled Poplar a bit lately (from U.S) and probably cheaper than you can get it there???, has good weight, it's hard and is supposed to have some water resistance - haven't used Balsa since the early 80's. Yes the sponge idea is a goodie, maybe even cut in smaller pads on wood would help too. Thanks again, as usual some really great input and much appreciated. Pete Edited May 12, 2015 by hazmail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
