flipper2 Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 I have started attempting my on g-10 circuit board lips. but, putting the right bend in the wire and getting it through the lip is killing me. Any advice is greatly welcomed. I would love to be able to make mine like the ones "Bob p" makes that twist all the way into the bait. Simply because they look so great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 The main "trick" is to use SOFT temper stainless steel wire. I use Malin .041" dia wire from McMaster-Carr. It is much easier to twist soft stainless wire and bend it accurately 90 degrees in the right place. You want the bend to be slightly below the eye to take the thickness of the lip material into account. I drill a hole with a micro drill bit and a Dremel in the lip surface that is just slightly smaller than the twisted wire that will go through it. Then, I use the bent line tie's sharp end to expand the hole until I can force the line tie through the lip and get a good friction fit. A little more twisting and you can work the bend of the shaft through the lip. If you do a good job, the shaft will lay neatly and close to the underside of the lip. On very deep diving baits where the line tie has a long run back to the nose of the bait, I usually run a bead of Devcon Two Ton along the shaft to eliminate any possible movement while the bait is used. On shallow to med divers, that's not needed. Soft stainless wire is ductile and easy to bend but when bent into a small circle for the eye, it is plenty strong enough for a bass bait, plus it is just soft enough to allow you to tune the bait without cracking the lip (or the finish on the nose of a bait with the line tie in the bait body). I bend wire with hand tools: a drill bit of the right diameter clamped in a vise around which to bend the eye; vise grip pliers to hold the wire while twisting, a pair of heavy lineman's pliers to grip the wire while I do the 90 degree bend, and to cut the shaft of the line tie to length. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flipper2 Posted May 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2015 Thank you Bob P. I need to get some softer stainless wire I've been using the regular. I will let you know how it goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncustered Posted May 16, 2015 Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 Michaels craft stores have Nice inexpensive selection of wire forming tools.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flipper2 Posted May 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2015 Thanks, Because trying to form the wire is killing me!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted May 17, 2015 Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 All you need to make line ties and hook hangers is to drive a finish nail into the edge of a board and use that to form the eye. Use whatever size finish nail you want the diameter of the eye to be. After you drive the nail into the edge of the board cut the head off of the nail to make removing your wire possible. Then it's just a matter of using the set of pliers of your choice to form the wraps. I like to use a standard twist for the portion of the wire that is exposed under the lip and for the part that is epoxied into the lure I use a barrel twist. This requires a little measuring, but to me it's worth it as the standard twist looks cleaner and in pull tests I've done the barrel twist is stronger. The barrel twist may be overkill, but I like to build my lures as close to bulletproof as possible. If you don't understand anything then holler back and I'll post some pictures. good luck, Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted May 17, 2015 Report Share Posted May 17, 2015 Another wire to consider is saltwater stainless leader wire. Malin, again, is a prime producer. I've used their .029 190 lb test wire and it is much thinner than what I would use in soft stainless but I don't foresee any fish breaking 190 lb test wire. It is made to be more ductile than hard stainless wire so that it can be formed into wire leaders with barrel twists but is harder than soft stainless. I still prefer the soft stainless for shallow baits because it is easy to tune without damaging the finish on the nose of the bait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flipper2 Posted May 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 Thank you BobP and Ben, You guys truly are wonderful. Ben the finish nail worked great and saved me a trip to that Big box store. Also, Ben what is the barrel twist you mentioned. BobP thank you so much for all of your help. I completed my first bait with the line tie in the bill!!! and it feels great. Not to mention I caught a fish on it while tuning. Again thank you both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 (edited) In the picture below you will notice two different types of wire twist on the same line tie. The part that shows under the lip is twisted using a haywire twist or what I call a simple twist. This is done by first forming your eye and then grabbing both ends of the wire in a pair of locking pliers and twisting it. The part of the line tie that goes inside the bait is done using the barrel twist. I do this for two reasons. One is that the haywire twist is more uniform and looks better than the barrel twist. Simple cosmetics is the only reason for this. The barrel twist is formed by first forming your eye and then grabbing one end of the wire in a pair of locking pliers and then wrapping the other end of the wire around the wire that is being held in the locking pliers. Secondly I do it this way because in tests I've done the barrel twist is quite a bit stronger than the haywire twist. The haywire twist has a tendency to "unscrew" itself from the epoxy/wood joint when left under load for an extended period of time while the joint between the epoxy and wood on the barrel twist will actually tear the wood out with it when loaded until failure. When you have a joint that is as strong as the material it's affixed to then that is as strong of a joint as possible unless you change materials. When twisting wire for the hooks hangers I use the barrel twist all the way since the only part that will be seen is the loop. A lot of people will see this as overkill and say they've never had a problem using the haywire twist and that is fine. I'm not one to say my way is the only way. However, as I've stated before, I like to build my cranks as close to bulletproof as possible. If I were to lose the fish of a lifetime because of cutting corners I would not be a happy camper to say the least. If there is anything you don't understand, or that I've failed to explain, just holler back and I'll give it another shot. Good luck. Ben Edited May 19, 2015 by RayburnGuy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 Ben - nicely explained and a tidy demo piece too. The barrel twist is all I ever use, for the same reasons. It looks complex, but with organization and practice, it is just as quick. I even built a jig for making them. I usually spend an hour and rattle off a hundred or so. Dave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 (edited) Thanks Dave. I remember some conversations that you were in that got me interested in the barrel twist and after doing some tests of my own knew that's what I'd be using from then on. Never did get around to building a copy of your barrel twisting jig. Have still got copies of the pictures you posted so maybe one of these days I'll get around to it. Ben Edited May 19, 2015 by RayburnGuy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 Ben - I had to throw the jig away when I lost the house. One of many projects that I have to re-build. Maybe re-visit the design and see if I can improve it. DAve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 That sucks Dave. Hope your able to get a new shop up and running one day soon. There were a lot of good projects and information that came out of your old shop. Ben 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 Ben - I am paid up and can pick the keys up any time. I am just too busy with work at the moment to do the move. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 Work is way overrated...until you don't have any. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 Work is way overrated...until you don't have any. Amen brother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRammit Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 ^^^X3^^^... See also: Texas oilfield Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 ^^^X3^^^... See also: Texas oilfield Work in the oil patch has been up and down more times than a Duncan yo-yo. Been there.......done that..........got the t-shirt. Ben 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 Yet another variation. Do the haywire twist for the whole length of the wire. Cut a small slot in the center back of the lip and bend the wire up and through the slot, then forward over the top of the lip. This gives you a tight little lip package. Downside is you have to cut two channels in the lip slot, one for the bottom wire and one for the top. Personally, I haven't had a twisted wire hanger or line tie fail using a simple haywire twist for the whole wire shank so that's what I use most often. I approve of using both a belt and suspenders but there are enough bad things that can (and eventually do) happen to a wood crankbait during use that you have to judge the advantage versus the extra work and weight involved with every embellishment. But it's good to have options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archeryrob Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 Yet another variation. Do the haywire twist for the whole length of the wire. Cut a small slot in the center back of the lip and bend the wire up and through the slot, then forward over the top of the lip. This gives you a tight little lip package. Downside is you have to cut two channels in the lip slot, one for the bottom wire and one for the top. A picture of this would really help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 Sorry Rob but I don't have a pic. It's fairly simple. Most wired lips have a straight shank running underneath the lip and glued straight into a channel cut into the bottom center of the lip slot. In this variation, you do the same thing but instead of simply gluing the wire in a channel under the lip, you make the wire a little longer and bend it up into a slot in the back of the lip and then forward toward the front of the lip, cutting it to length so the wire doesn't protrude outside the nose of the bait. When you glue in the lip, you have to cut a channel in both the center bottom and the center top of the lip slot to fit the wire into. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 I use Dieter's method. I drill two small inline holes where I want the line tie to be, take a piece of soft tempered SST wire and bend it into a tight U shape, slip the two wire ends through the holes in the lip, use a nail to keep the wire from getting too close to the lip, and then bend both ends down a 90 degrees, toward the bait. I've found that I don't even have to twist the "tag ends" if I just put a kink in them, just past the depth of the lip's length. I cut my lip slot, drill a channel under it for the wires, fill it all with D2T, and push the wired lip into the slot. The wires typically don't lay perfectly flat against the lip, and the spring tension from them helps to force the lip tight to the upper face of the slot, which is still flat and square to the bait. If I'm making a bait with a longer lip, so there's more wire exposed, I wait for the bedding epoxy to set, and then I use some blue painter's tape to mask off a channel alongside the wires. This gives me a way to apply more D2T to make the longer wires rigid, and still keep the epoxy off the lips. I use my finger, dipped in denatured alcohol, to do the final shaping of the epoxy wire reinforcement. I've made baits with the wires not epoxied to the lip afterwards, and they have never failed, but having them seated in epoxy makes tuning the line tie much easier. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
