padan Posted June 9, 2015 Report Share Posted June 9, 2015 ok, so I'm a newbie to AB painting and already I know clearcoating is one of the most talked about subjects. I have been using the D2T epoxy and am somewhat satisfied with the results. But am looking at using an MCU to see if I like that better. I have read multiple threads on this and when it comes to dipping your lure in MCU, the one item I have not seen an answer to is do you dip the entire lure (including the dive bill) in MCU? I am concerned with pooling around the bill if I do that. What do you do? For some background, I am talking about plastic baits with bills already molded to lure. Any advise is appreciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted June 9, 2015 Report Share Posted June 9, 2015 (edited) Many "knockoff" lures have an area sanded on the lip where the halves of the bait were joined together. So yes, you can dip the whole lure including the lip on a plastic bait - in fact, you should to make the sanded part disappear. The MCU I use (Dick Nite) is quite thin and drains right off the lip without pooling on the nose of the bait. I think most other MCU's will do the same. Now if you can figure a way to dip baits in MCU without causing half your product to prematurely harden, you'll be ahead of the game - I can't - though guys using KBS say they can. MCU adheres quite well to plastic baits - but it will not adhere for long to polycarbonate. Edited June 9, 2015 by BobP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padan Posted June 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2015 Thanks BobP. I am curious, what do you attribute the hardening of the product to? Is it due to the container being open while dipping lures? or do you think it's a reaction to the lure being submerged in the product? or a combination of both? I'm guessing I could brush MCU on my lure as well, but I was looking for a more efficient (aka: lazy) way to apply the clear coat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis Posted June 9, 2015 Report Share Posted June 9, 2015 Bottom line you have to ideally eliminate but reduce moisture (humidity) from the environment during the dipping procedures. When you dip you expose the contents of the can, vessel, etc.. to the environment. Various ways around this issue however but easiest readily available method for most likely being dehumidifier (but limits on how low one can effectively lower a small room humidity) or glove bag/box with dry compressed air feed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted June 9, 2015 Report Share Posted June 9, 2015 MCU is the abbreviated form of Moisture Cure Urethane. Moisture in the air is what starts the curing process. Each and every time you open a container of MCU your exposing it to moisture in the air in the form of humidity. Many of us have tried moisture barriers such as Bloxygen which is no more than argon gas. The idea behind moisture barriers is that argon is heavier than air and will form a protective blanket over the MCU. While this does seem to extend the life of the MCU it does not completely stop moisture from reaching the MCU and thus starting the curing process. A quart of Dick Nite MCU is upwards of $50 even with the discount given to TU members. While it is in my opinion one of the better top coats you are going to lose approximately half of the product due to moisture getting to it and starting the curing process in the container. Many of us have gone from dipping lures in DN to brushing it on. This is done by a method commonly referred to as "tapping the can". You can find an explanation of exactly how to do this by doing a search for "tapping the can". Ben 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 Like Ben says, if you expose a can full of MCU to air, it's absorbing moisture. Dipping accelerates this because your lure carries moisture into the surface of the MCU and MCU dripping off the lure as you lift it out of the can does too. Using Bloxygen after every session and decanting a quart of http://www.jegs.com/i/KBS+Coatings/191/8404/10002/-1).%C2'> I haven't tried it. I particularly like DN MCU so have switched to the tap-the-can method of storage. So far, so good after a few months. Guys who use this method of storage say they get to use the whole quart of finish. That would be nice since I've been throwing about half my DN away! One topic I don't think is discussed much is how to brush on MCU. Basically, I use a 1/2" wide artist's brush to flood the surface of the lure as quickly as possible, then hang them up to drip off the excess and dry. If you take your time brushing MCU, it can begin to harden so quickly that it has begun to gel by the time you get around to the place you started brushing - screwing up the finish. So fast is good, IMO. Not quite as lazy as dipping but much faster than epoxy, and no mixing. I think MCU is THE optimum clearcoat for plastic lures. And it looks great on wood or plastic. I often opt for epoxy on wood lures to hide any surface imperfections or when I'm building a wood lure that will be trolled (epoxy lasts longer against hook rash because it's much thicker). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padan Posted June 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 thanks for the input guys, much appreciated! .. I may stick to D2T for now until I can bone up on the MCU's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdmh Posted June 16, 2015 Report Share Posted June 16, 2015 I've had good luck using compressed air (air duster) after my bottle of bloxygen ran out before I could get a good seal on my mason jar. I love the finish that it has and you can beat the ease of use vs d2t. However, I can let a bait dry for weeks and still get cracks in everywhere, especially white and orange. I can't imagine any extra moisture being in the paint. It's like the paint is being pulled away from the lure. Anyone else run into these problems? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 drdmh, when that happens, I attribute it to one of 3 things. Most often it happens if you let wet MCU sit anywhere on a bait for too long. MCU skins over very quickly but that doesn't mean it's not still liquid underneath the skin so you want all excess MCU to drip off the tail of the bait before that happens. Don't use a lure turner. Just hang it up to drip dry. The second scenario is if the acrylic paint underneath the MCU is not thoroughly dry. It won't bond to the lure until its dry and the MCU will cause it to bubble and crack. The 3rd scenario is applying MCU to a lure that has an incompatible solvent based coating on it. MCU tends to wick right through acrylic paint and its solvent will then react with a solvent based undercoating or primer. fix: lose the solvent based coating. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdmh Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 drdmh, when that happens, I attribute it to one of 3 things. Most often it happens if you let wet MCU sit anywhere on a bait for too long. MCU skins over very quickly but that doesn't mean it's not still liquid underneath the skin so you want all excess MCU to drip off the tail of the bait before that happens. Don't use a lure turner. Just hang it up to drip dry. The second scenario is if the acrylic paint underneath the MCU is not thoroughly dry. It won't bond to the lure until its dry and the MCU will cause it to bubble and crack. The 3rd scenario is applying MCU to a lure that has an incompatible solvent based coating on it. MCU tends to wick right through acrylic paint and its solvent will then react with a solvent based undercoating or primer. fix: lose the solvent based coating. Well, I do a pretty quick dip and then let it drip above the container until it's slow enough to move to the hanging rack. On some paints, I can see it starting to affect the paint immediately. I know some of them are dry, because they've been hanging for a couple of weeks. When you say solvent-based coating, what are you referring to? Water is a solvent and therefore all my paints are useless when trying to use MCU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 I'm talking petroleum based solvents, as in an automotive primer or a rattle can paint or primer. Not water or alcohol. I never have a reaction problem with MCU on top of water based acrylic paint and use epoxy or UV cured polyester as an undercoating on wood baits. On plastic baits, I use a water based acrylic paint for color basecoating directly onto the plastic, then acrylic colors, then the MCU. No petroleum based coatings. I use standard Createx or various brands of taxidermy acrylic paints on lures; I can't speak to Wicked Colors or other modified acrylic paints that may or may not contain special purpose compounds for automotive applications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdmh Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Sounds like you have the same process as me. I actually have better luck with wicked colors and the mcu. It's leading me to believe that it might be the white paint. I'll try switching that out and going from there. If I do thin a paint, it usually just with water. I use the reducer in the wicked paints. Also, might switch out mcu brands as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 I haven't tried Dick Nite's MCU, but I've found that the solvent in the concrete sealer I use, AC1315, will wrinkle Wicked White. I think it has something to do with the solvent in the Wicked White. The quicker I dip it, the less chance it has to wrinkle. I had a bait come off my dipping wire and float for a little before I could fish it out, and it wound up with more wrinkles than me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padan Posted June 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 I have no experience with MCU's, but in some of the discussions i've read createx wicked white seems to be a culprit for wrinkling. What appears to be the solution is to dip the bait in pledge/future solution and letting that dry prior to dipping in MCU. I haven't worked up enough nerve to try MCU yet ...... one of these days I will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdmh Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 I have no experience with MCU's, but in some of the discussions i've read createx wicked white seems to be a culprit for wrinkling. What appears to be the solution is to dip the bait in pledge/future solution and letting that dry prior to dipping in MCU. I haven't worked up enough nerve to try MCU yet ...... one of these days I will. If it would work as advertised for me, it'd be all that I would use. So dang easy to dip and hang. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 I plan on using Createx Gloss as a barrier coat the next time I paint something and dip it in AC1315. But that won't be for a couple of months, since my garage shop is packed up in moving boxes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 If it would work as advertised for me, it'd be all that I would use. So dang easy to dip and hang. You can dip and hang DN, but your going to experience quite a bit of waist since repeatedly opening the dipping container exposes it to moisture. I've gone from trying to dip in DN to using the tap the can method of drawing out the MCU and brushing it on. It takes a little longer this way, but in my opinion it's worth it just to be able to use DN on my baits. For my DN gives the closest thing to a factory finish as far as being clear and in most cases protects the bait better than most factory finishes. These are just my opinions. Everyone else is entitled to theirs. If your dead set on dipping your baits then I would suggest one of the concrete sealers. Ben 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted June 18, 2015 Report Share Posted June 18, 2015 I agree with Ben on brushing versus dipping in DN. Of course, it depends on how often you dip and how many lures you coat at a time, in other words how fast you use up the DN before it begins to harden. The longest I've been able to keep DN liquid is 7-8 months as a hobby builder doing 75-100 baits per year. As far as ease of application, brushing DN is very quick for me: I slop it on fast and let it drip dry just as I would with dipping. There is some waste since you are dispensing more finish than you use on the baits but it's not as bad as losing half a quart ($25 worth) of DN to hardening in the can. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
