jonister Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 (edited) I have been having this problem with my most recent crankbaits, all of the same generic style made of either poplar or cedar. They dont want to wiggle but instead just drag down like a wet log in a wide snake like figure with no wiggle at all, just this wide "S" shape. No matter how much i tune them they still do this and if i crank too hard on the widest curves they will peel out. Now i thought one was a fluke, then two, and now three doing so, so i am concerned i am messing something up bad. I did a search and saw some posts about line tie position so i changed that up a bit but still nothing. Still the "S drag". I will be posting picture soon to give some perspective. Any help is welcome. Im just hoping to salvage them. Thanks guys! P.S, i know you guys cant say much yet since i have no pics of them, i will hope to get some up this evening when i can be home and figure it out. Edited June 10, 2015 by jonister Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRammit Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 Sounds like u made a jet diver... I use to pull bait behind them for walleye... They're basically a crank bait that dives but doesn't wiggle, always wondered why, just figured the lip is so wide that it's easier for the thing to dive than wiggle... But at some point/speed enough energy should be generated to create those vortices that make our lures swim, yet it doesn't.... Its a mystery! Is yours a deep diver? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleriver Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 Sounds like you have a deadstick condition. My first guess would be the line tie is too high but impossible to say without seeing the bait and knowing how it is weighted. Try bending the line down towards the bill as far possible and see if that gets some action. If it does, you could add a second line to the bait where the bill meets the body or just in front of this spot. Another tuning option is to sand down the bill . Right now everything is in equilibrium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 I agree with Littleriver; either the tow eye is too high or the lip is too long. The images are going to help. My guess would be that if you did a bath tub test and had a close look, you would see the bait nodding up and down very slightly. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonister Posted June 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 Im having an issue posting pics. I cant seem to figure it out. How do i do it? I cant seem to remember Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonister Posted June 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonister Posted June 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 Woops, the last one didnt work. i hope this works. Sorry if the pics are bad, my phone is the only device i could find that would take pictures unter 2 MB. i wont be able to bath test tonight, its a little late . Lol. one last thing i noticed is all the lures have the weight/balast in front of the belly hanger. could this be the problem. Thanks for all the help guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleriver Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 First select more reply options tab next to the post tab just below and to the right of this entry box. Next, use the choose file tab to select files from your hard drive. After that , select attach this file. Finally, add to post. Here is my first finished bait . It suffered from this condition . Bib too long, tie too high and ballast too little. but it did swim by bending that line tie down on the bib. I have no idea where that bait is now. Too bad, I suffered greatly in the making of that one. We ( me, my wife Digna and our three kids) were staying at our camper on Douglas lake when I decide to put the topcoat on the bait late one night. Somwhere( not TU), I got the idea Minwax polyurethane makes a good topcoat (bad idea). Anyway, around midnight; after everyone had gone to sleep, I popped the lid on that baby and began to dip. It was october, so the evening was quite cool. While I was out enjoying the brisk cool air dipping my first bait, i had another brilliant idea. This baby would dry much faster hanging from one of the heat ducts in the camper. I remember hanging the bait and thinking this wasn't going to take long once that heater kicks in. It kicked in all right and my wife (Digna) kicked me and my baby(lure) out as the aroma of that poly soaked lure filled our little camper waking everyone up. I'll never forget her exact words, " What the hell is that smell." quickly followed by " What were you thinking!". needless to say, baby and i slept on the porch that night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleriver Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 (edited) Nice looking baits jonister! We really need Dieter's guidance on these lures. They look very similar to Australian style banana lures. Especially, the top lure in the side profile photo. This lure has no belly so your ballast is going to be high in the bait . Dieter has made many of these style lures. He definitely could help. The little one on the left in the same photo appears to have a long bib in relation to the line tie. Then the chubby guy on the right, doesn't look too bad other than being off center. Each appears to have it's own set of problems. How do they sit in a pale of water? I sometimes copy commercial baits. I will weight my copy so it sits in the water just like the commercial bait. if you have weighted each of these lures the same despite their different shapes and bibs( same as in same size ballast), this could be part of the problem. They should all sit straight with a nose down orientation. Edited June 10, 2015 by littleriver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 Certainly the lips are not too long measured from the tow eye to the tip, in fact, maybe too short! Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 Those are nice baits, but I think they have some fundamental flaws working against them. I'd offer these ideas, to try and save them. First, the angle of the lip is too flat (parallel to the bait's centerline) for such short lips. That is the angle for deep divers, with long lips. Lips that short should have some down angle from the centerline of the bait, to initiate the swimming action. If you used Lexan for you lips, you can heat them and bend them down, to see if that helps. I see your line ties run under the lips into the baits, so you might have trouble doing it. If they were my baits, I'd cut off the line ties at the bait, bend down the lips, and add a new line tie. I think the line tie should have been in the nose of the baits themselves, tight down to where the lip enters. Second, if you don't want to bend down the lips, I'd add ballast to the belly. I can't tell where you added ballast, or how much. I find that adding ballast at the belly hanger results in the widest Xing/wiggle. You might try adding enough ballast to get your baits to hang nose down, like a deep diver, which should help to keep the lips down during the retrieve. I like those baits, and I hope something can save them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRammit Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 Sorry I'm still stuck on the jet diver thing, but I think it's relevant... Also think Mark is right about the angle.. The jet diver lip comes strait out in line with the body, there's enough lip to grab water and dive, but not enough exposed at that angle to cause oscilation.... Maybe?... Or maybe it's the big fin on the line tie?? I'm probably not much help, but if u figure out what you did "wrong" I may try to recreate it... An "s swimming" diver pulling a crawler harness sounds interesting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonister Posted June 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 On the first picture, the one on the left, its lip does have angle. But, i think managed to fix it on that one! all i had to do was move the eye back as far as i could and it wants to run (right) now. On the other two, i moved the eyes back and forth, but like vodkamen said, i do notice then "nodding". i will try bending a lip and maybe add some ballast to the bellys. I will be down at the water today testing the one i think is working now. and maybe i can fix the other two before then. @littleriver, i have had that problem too! first it was forgetting to turn the vent on in the garage, then it was deciding to open up a can of solarez in the house. This is a messy hobby . Thanks again guys for helping me out so much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleriver Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 Glad to here you got one working. I suggest you make just one change at a time. It can get very confusing when you make two or three at once. Here is an oldie but a goodie on banana style baits. lots good info. You may find something helpful. If not, still a great read. Good luck do to you down at the water. http://www.tackleunderground.com/community/topic/13043-new-banana-lure/?hl=%20australian%20%20lure 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodieb8 Posted June 10, 2015 Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 lip angle from my looking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonister Posted June 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2015 Thanks Littleriver for finding that. It helped a lot! i learned quite a bit and might try to fix the "bannana" by cupping the lip. I could not get the fat one to work right and accidentally bent off the line tie. Woops . it got put on the shelf until i have time to fix it and i probably will add a new and longer lip to it too. As for the one i got to work right, it ran right today when i tested it, and i even hooked a bass on it! it came off on a jump but otherwise id have a pic. Those smallies like the more "natural" colors . ill definatley put a good paint job on that one. I tried to catch him again but i think he spooked. I had a few follow ups later on a different homemade lure but all the fish swam off when a big water snake decided he would go fishing too. (i caught him later with my bare hands, actually the biggest of his kind i had seen before) Thank you guys so much for all the help! the main reason i wanted to get these three down is because i am working on a very large high speed trolling lure for tuna and want to make sure it runs right! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Littleriver's advice about one change at a time is very important. Single changes is the only way you learn about effect. I think the angle down the lip is good advice too. I think of the lip angle as acting like dihedral on aircraft wings, this adds stability. So much to learn from this set of lures. If you take it all in, this could set you up in lure design for the future. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonister Posted June 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 I am! i tried moving the tow eye on both, tried lip angle on both, and neither helped, so i drilled some new ballast, which helped, but not by much. Im sure the real problem lies in the lip length so i probably will grind them out and make new ones, each a bit longer and more angled. One step at a time. I am taking in all this knowledge! Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleriver Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Here is Dieter's latest batch of lures. lots of baits with straight bib. These might give you some ideas on how to fix yours, He bathtub test these same lures a few videos back, After watching , i thought you may want to add a new line tie to the nose of the bait near where the bib meets the body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleriver Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 This is why I like to swim test everything before i glue anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted June 11, 2015 Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 One thing to keep in mind with banana lures that have lips. Because the lure body is curved, the angle of the lip, even if it seems flat in relation to the head, is actually more steep. If you draw a straight line from the rear hook hanger to the place where the lip enters the bait, you get a much more accurate idea of the lip angle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonister Posted June 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2015 Littleriver, i learned my lesson with this one! Mark, i did that and both lips are pretty much straight. I might mess around with the bigger one today as i like it more. Maybe ill give it a more angled lip that is longer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
