JRammit Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 So my upgrade from a tiny computer desk to a proper work bench has been WONDERFUL!.... Now its about time for an upgrade to some proper wood working tools The bench is great, but it is not in a shop or shed.. Its actually in a hallway... So there is no floor space to speak of, especially since i have to share part of it with the dog (it was her hallway before i moved in)... So more tools = less bench space Been "window shopping" and found a few potential space savers... Ive prety much decided on this for a saw... Good reviews and practically zero footprint sice it clamps to the bench http://m.homedepot.com/p/Dremel-Moto-Saw-Scroll-Saw-MS20-01/203899883?cm_mmc=shopping-_-googleads-_-pla-_-203899883&ci_sku=203899883&ci_gpa=pla&ci_src=17588969&gclid=CjwKEAjwxMetBRDJx6Sz2p7DsQ0SJADJHAqNReLs-IuG18JWPL-jluvQWjqpaxAw8CBa9ir9Vx7QyhoCwE7w_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds For a sander this is quite affordable and says to have a 5" x 5" footprint.... But im unsure of the rigidity of the vertical belt with no backing??? http://m.harborfreight.com/1-in-x-30-in-belt-sander-61728.html Mini jewlery drill press... 6 3/4" x 9 1/2" footprint... Still a good chunk of my 4 1/2' x 2' bench https://www.etsy.com/listing/191602120/6mm-mini-drill-press-compact-bench-top?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=shopping_us_supplies-commercial-tool-mid&utm_custom1=1a9654f4-e180-4ce1-8228-c98aefe17655&kpid=191602120&gclid=CjwKEAjwxMetBRDJx6Sz2p7DsQ0SJADJHAqNT79EBuymtbYM1ig4XC-854nfqah8UKxO5AJNDoDEeBoCcBvw_wcB And then theres this... The Dremel Work Station... Possibly a "do it all" solution... Drill/sand/cut/carve... Only thing it wont do is paint........ There surely are better tools for the job, but it appears to fit the space AND the budget... https://www.google.com/shopping/product/980801193509133461?safe=images&redir_esc=&pws=1&client=ms-android-sprint-us&aqs=qsb-android...jjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjj1j1j1&entrypoint=android-velvet&noj=1&biw=360&hl=en-US&ctzn=America/Chicago&gcc=us&oe=utf-8&pbx=1&v=3.3.12.1106182.arm&dbla=1&q=mini+drill+press+jewelry&bih=569&fheit=1&prds=paur:ClkAsKraX5yPzsC35zj8HrflU4-s5GaXebRZokst91Ux9mnRS8k5quRKsOSbgHphBtfFY1J4Ov2MFnORTlRywAixIq11oVj-h4tOz1k-RHms0S9C3phm0MoSzRIZAFPVH71Kt6N8cAPhVISFH9BBKATbopuNgg&sa=X&ved=0CCoQ8wIwCmoVChMI7NjEv5_1xgIVC6OICh1mogEW Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clemmy Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 Well your sander option 5"x5" is just for the table part. The whole machine is bigger. My suggestion would be to set a "power tool" area of your bench, say 14"x12" or so. Surround it with several bench dogs or toggle clamps. Then take each tool and screw it to a 14"x12" 1/2" board of plywood or MDF. That way you can just pull the tool you want, clamp it down by the plywood base, and go at it. When you're ready for the next step replace the tool with the new one. Kind of a modular system. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRammit Posted July 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 Yes, i see the plate now... And 5 x 5 didnt sound right.. Looks about 1 1/2 times the size of the table.. 7-8" is still better than a full sized horizontal sander clemmy, i like the interchangeable tool station idea!!!... Thanks for that!.... Great solution! The dremel work station had mixed reviews, im quite partial to my hand held, its basically my "do it all" tool right now.... Price and size wise, it appeared a valid solution... But this is why i keep y'all one click away! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 The sander looks like it will do the job. Pity about the guard over the curved part at the top, the curved part of the sander gets used a lot on mine. The mini drill press looks good, but you will be limited to D6mm max drill size. There should be stepped drills available should the requirement arise. I have my doubts about the Dremel stuff. Clemmy is right, you need some kind of modular setup, otherwise you will end up with no work space on your bench and it will be occupied by tools that only get used occasionally in the build process. A more complex solution, but more user friendly, would be a rotating/locking table for your power tools. This would only use up 2' of your bench, leaving the rest for a vise and work area. You would rotate the table to bring the desired tool to the front, then lock the table. Another idea that was discussed recently, was a flip bench, for housing two separate tools. Again, a complex build. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRammit Posted July 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 I saw the "flipin" tools threat... I liked the idea, but the space under my bench is already occupied by a shelf and drawers... And i agree about losing the curve on the sander... Ive seen how usefull it can be in your videos! The drill press will likely have more uses in the future, but my main need for now is the small hole in my line through baits..... Currently i have to split a block, center line it, melt half a pilot hole on each side, glue back together, then cut out my blanks and drill through before carving.... Talk about a hassle!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 Yes, the mini drill press will solve all that. I suggest you go ahead with the drill press and the belt sander for now. The saw can wait a little longer. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 I would reconsider the tool selection personally. Space isn't the biggest deal in my opinion as one simple shelf can hold most of the stuff out of the way and just forces one to have to move things from one spot to the other. Budget.....big fan of budgeting but to budget to by inferior or poor performing tools ends up costing way more in the long run. If budget is concern. I would take a decent dozuki or carcass saw and fret saw or bow saw over the dremel. To be honest a small band saw won't take up much more space and if set up properly (good blade, alignment, etc..) will give more than satisfactory results. I used a small Delta band saw for years, as it was light weight and small foot print. Hooked up the shop vacuum you can cut in the house dust free. I used it a lot in the winter and just set up in the kitchen and cut out blanks instead of shoveling snow to get to the shop. As mentioned you can build a rotating cart and chuck a few tools on it. A drill press can also work as your sander and do a better job with dust collection if you build the appropriate attachments. Teamed up with a vise makes using jigs and can also be used to mill slots. The two methods below work well...one for template work and shaping bills the other whips out contours easily. To be honest if using balsa, basswood, pawoulina, and PVC sanding by hand really ends up being about the easiest method if space and cost is up most concern. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clemmy Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 If your looking to do through wires, you may have issue with that drill press. Even drilling from both ends it looks like you would be limited to a small crankbait at best due to the depth available one you put a bit in. Quill I think it's called, though I may have that wrong.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRammit Posted July 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 http://www.rockler.c...ble-drill-guide I forgot about this one.... Space and budget friendly Travis, space really is a concern, even greater than budget in this case.... The shelf solution still requires a spot to store tools not in use.. So the smaller the tools, the better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRammit Posted July 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 Heres my space... Pic was taken a while back, of course its more cluttered now The top of the box has become a "catch all", but could easily be cleaned off for a tool mount spot.. Which would keep the bench space free........ Still nowhere to store large tools, and if i take up anymore space in the house, the wife will kick me out of it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdeee Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 Loads of room you got there, even enough for a used ShopSmith. Wife might kick you out, buy hey you got to prioritize things in life ; ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRammit Posted July 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 Maybe a "domestic eviction" is the solution... If she kicks me out, i will have all the space i need in the front yard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRammit Posted July 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 I would reconsider the tool selection personally. Space isn't the biggest deal in my opinion as one simple shelf can hold most of the stuff out of the way and just forces one to have to move things from one spot to the other. Budget.....big fan of budgeting but to budget to by inferior or poor performing tools ends up costing way more in the long run. If budget is concern. I would take a decent dozuki or carcass saw and fret saw or bow saw over the dremel. To be honest a small band saw won't take up much more space and if set up properly (good blade, alignment, etc..) will give more than satisfactory results. I used a small Delta band saw for years, as it was light weight and small foot print. Hooked up the shop vacuum you can cut in the house dust free. I used it a lot in the winter and just set up in the kitchen and cut out blanks instead of shoveling snow to get to the shop. As mentioned you can build a rotating cart and chuck a few tools on it. A drill press can also work as your sander and do a better job with dust collection if you build the appropriate attachments. Teamed up with a vise makes using jigs and can also be used to mill slots. The two methods below work well...one for template work and shaping bills the other whips out contours easily. To be honest if using balsa, basswood, pawoulina, and PVC sanding by hand really ends up being about the easiest method if space and cost is up most concern. I had to take a 2nd look at the bottom picture, at first it just looked like you were drilling a hole.. But now i see the blank under your fingers..... This is a good solution Travis!... 2 tools in one What rpm would i need to work the sanding drum property? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 The sanding drum works well. Simple box and drill a hole for the drum to pass into. You can make various inserts for different diameter drums. Drill a hole in the side or back of the box and the shop vac hooks up to it so dust free. The shroud with the flap sander slides over the same box and does a decent job at collecting fines. I have other sanding options now but still like the flap sanders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdeee Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 (edited) Travis don't you find that the bearings wear out by using the drill like that? I guess if it's balsa it doesn't put enough pressure on the bearings. Edited July 25, 2015 by Jdeee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 I guess I live in an alternative universe. If I were building a hundred baits per week, I'd have a plethora of power tools set up in my garage, most of them outfitted with custom jigs. But I'm a hobby guy building about 100 baits per year, of various designs. Building a good bait doesn't depend on how many power tools you have. It depends on how much accuracy and judgement you can apply to the craft with whatever tools you choose. The only bench tool on my workbench, and then only when used, is a Makita scroll saw that I bought reconditioned on Ebay 15 yrs ago for $125. I use a hand held rotary sander/polisher to size the thickness of baits (out in the driveway). It's also handy to wax my boat and vehicles. Other than that, everything is done with a Murphy Carving knife, a Dremel tool and loose sandpaper. I don't want to do anything that produces saw dust inside the house. You are not gonna be a popular guy with your wife --- or your dog. I realize if you live in an apartment, there are constraints. But there are alternatives when making baits and some of them don't include bench power tools. Using a Murphy knife to take off most of the material when I'm rounding over a blank is the thing that has reduced the amount of sawdust I produce the most. And it's just as quick as a sander. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 Jdeee, I agree not a great solution. Very much a budget approach as far double up usage in same space and for best dust collection option for indoor use in house. I have a spindle sander so don't use the drum sanders on the drill press anymore. If one is using a low priced drill press I wouldn't be too worried as the run out and bearings often not that great to begin with but still should get a lot of use out of it and those drills are priced to be throw a ways. The flap sanders don't really exert any pressure on the spindle as the flaps give way so no real side force is being applied. Yeah balsa wouldn't be much of an issue or likely any that I listed prior as all very soft easily worked. I used the drum sander attachment in a Craftsman 12" drill press off and on for several years. No issues and the drill appears to still be no worse for the wear. The drill press was meant to be replaced but never got around to doing it as it is no worse for wear. I use the power tools when it makes sense and saves time, but prefer hand tools. Breaking down basswood beams goes quick with the table saw and band saw (usually 8 to 10 foot beams). I might run a length through the planer if needed to desired thickness but usually good to go after the table saw or band saw. Shorter pieces just gets chucked on the table and passed over a few times with a hand plane. I prefer using a knife also and just do the final sanding with sandpaper as it really doesn't take much. I use the flap sander more if I have a small tub of blanks to finish as it does go quicker. I like using hand tools because slip out early in the morning with a cup of coffee and use the dozuki and the bow saw I made to get blanks ready for carving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdeee Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 (edited) I bought a couple of ShopSmiths for $100 each with all the standard attachments included, then sold the attachments that I would never use or the duplicates and got the two machines for free : )). if ya have the room they a amazing tools. I mounted a 10" long inflatable drum sander on one side and that's the tool I use the most for cedar or poplar. It shapes anything in seconds using course sandpaper including finger tips LOL. Now I wear Teflon gloves when I use it. Edited July 25, 2015 by Jdeee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRammit Posted July 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 I guess I live in an alternative universe. If I were building a hundred baits per week, I'd have a plethora of power tools set up in my garage, most of them outfitted with custom jigs. But I'm a hobby guy building about 100 baits per year, of various designs. Building a good bait doesn't depend on how many power tools you have. It depends on how much accuracy and judgement you can apply to the craft with whatever tools you choose. The only bench tool on my workbench, and then only when used, is a Makita scroll saw that I bought reconditioned on Ebay 15 yrs ago for $125. I use a hand held rotary sander/polisher to size the thickness of baits (out in the driveway). It's also handy to wax my boat and vehicles. Other than that, everything is done with a Murphy Carving knife, a Dremel tool and loose sandpaper. I don't want to do anything that produces saw dust inside the house. You are not gonna be a popular guy with your wife --- or your dog. I realize if you live in an apartment, there are constraints. But there are alternatives when making baits and some of them don't include bench power tools. Using a Murphy knife to take off most of the material when I'm rounding over a blank is the thing that has reduced the amount of sawdust I produce the most. And it's just as quick as a sander. . Bob, that threw me off a little... I just assumed all the pro's on here had an entire wood shop at their disposal So far ive built every one of my hard baits with a cheap cockeyed jig saw and a 10 year old dremel Your baits are quite impressive, and even more so knowing what you use to make em! I think i can hold my own using the dremel.. I really surprised myself the first time i picked it up to carve a master for a soft bait!.... Since then ive gotten even better But now im after repeatability and efficiency... If i REALLY take my time, i can get 2 baits PRETTY close to identical!....... But if i could do it quicker, i could use that time for other stuff...... Like making soft baits! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 (edited) JRammit, I also think repeatability is very important. The problem for me is that a power tool doesn't necessarily make that any easier than a hand tool - unless you are making only a few designs and are willing to build a number of jigs for them that can guarantee repeatability. I do a lot of marking on my baits with a good draftsman's compass to describe the limits for rounding over baits, tapering, finding center lines, etc. It's a boring, exacting process but once marked it doesn't really matter how you remove the material as long as you can do it accurately, nor how you drill the holes as long as they are on the center line of the bait. I really don't think a bench mounted sander or drill press will do it quicker or more accurately than a Dremel with the right tool head. At least that's been true for me. I'm not casting aspersions on guys using whatever tools they like to build baits. I'm just saying there are alternatives to a suite of bench mounted power tools and you can still build good baits with a more modest array of tools. Edited July 26, 2015 by BobP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRammit Posted July 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 Bob, the drill press is a must for my cranks... If you havnt seen them, theres a few in the gallery (look for "ILC") I got the concept for "facets" by reading your posts... I use a stencil for each side and color in the area to remove with a sharpie.... The dremel does the job, but i think a stationary tool would be more accurate...... And of course faster Not to mention my cheap jig saw with the base that won't lock.... It switches from 90 to 45 at its leisure.... My dremel is getting tired of picking up its slack! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt M Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 I bought a hand held belt sander from a garage sale several years ago. I flip it upside down and clamp it in my bench vice. It makes a very efficient sanding station. And it packs away when not in use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRammit Posted July 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 Dont most hand held sanders have a trigger you have to hold down?.... I had thought about cutting a slit in my bench and mounting my jigsaw upside down underneath.. But id have to rig the trigger with a rubber band or something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt M Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 The sander I bought had a trigger lock button on the side of the handle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted July 26, 2015 Report Share Posted July 26, 2015 I did a project with a mounted hand held jigsaw. It worked, but not as good as a band saw or a scroll saw. I wired the mains through a remote switch. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
