Tube Dipping. Container. Pot.

[RSullivan]

I am going to dip tubes!

I am aware of 'horizontal' dipping, but I am going to dip vertical.

 

I am going to double dip to get a different color for the 'tails'.

 

Anyone have any ideas for what to use for containers to hold the 

plastisol for dipping?

 

I am going to mix in presto pots (2. One for each color).

I am planning on transferring the plastisol to two different

'dipping pots' My dipping pots will be sitting on a dual burner

hot plate.

 

I cannot seem to find a suitable container to use for my 'dipping pots'.

 

I am looking for a deep (7-8") container about 6" wide. 

 

I am about to purchase some asparagus cooking pots 

(like: http://www.williams-sonoma.com/products/4547964/?catalogId=80&sku=4547964&cm_ven=Google_PLA&cm_cat=Shopping&cm_pla=default&cm_ite=default&gclid=CNe-lcXDl8cCFYgBaQodFgIK-w&kwid=productads-plaid^82946922583-sku^4547964-adType^PLA-device^c-adid^45527541823)

but I thought I would check with you guys before I do this to see if anyone

has any better ideas.

 

The issues I have with the asparagus pots:

1.) They seem flimsy. Seem that they would not hold heat very well.

2. Cannot see through them. Ideally a tall/narrow Pyrex type container would probably

   be better so I can see through the walls for the correct dipping depth. I have

   not seen such an animal though.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Thanks.

 

[Vodkaman]

Understand that I am approaching this as an engineer, not a plastics guy.

Clarity is not important, there are other, better ways of judging the dip depth, mostly based on marking the dipping rod. I will let your imagination figure that out.

I don't think tall and thin is a good idea in Pyrex. You could probably find something suitable in a chemistry lab, check out lab suppliers.

Metal will certainly be the safest bet, but most stuff is going to be deep drawn aluminium. This means that it will be thin and heat loss will be a big factor as aluminium is one of the best conductors of heat.

A deep aluminium container sitting in a thick plaster of paris jacket would work well, as plaster is an excellent insulator. It would also give a solid, stable base for your tall, narrow container.

You quoted 6" as the diameter of the container. This seems rather large, you may want to re-evaluate this number.

Google candle making as a possible source of container or if you know a welder, get your own made.

Just a few ideas drifting through my head.

Dave

[rhahn427]

Why not try capped PVC pipe

[Travis]

PVC a no go.  Temperature too close to the melt, you will have a very soft spongy pipe at those temperatures likely folding on itself/warping.  Easy enough to bend PVC pipe in just boiling water. Also it appears he wants to be able to heat the chamber

 

Thin aluminum is fine you just have  set up a mold and pour a mixture  pearlite and sodium silicate around it to insulate it.  Leave the bottom not coated to allow heat transfer through the aluminum.   I may still have some thick walled aluminum containers when I was making a few dipping pots.

 

How many are you dipping?  I can knock a lot of tubes out dipping out of a pyrex cup without little effort.  Nuke in microwave tilt the cup slightly and dip/twirl rod and hang, repeat.  Will do a set number then go dip the second or same color if needed for double dipped, triple, etc... up to where I will cut the tails.  

Edited August 7, 2015 by Travis

[Vodkaman]

PVC starts to melt at around 320 centigrade, so not suitable unfortunately.

A manufactured Fiberglass container could work. It has 50% full strength at 700 F, so strong enough at plastic temperatures. Easy to work with and combined with a plaster base, excellent stability and heat retention.

Dave

[gone2long]

Ah yes get yourself some asparagus cans which are deep and narrow, unfortunately I will not reveal all my setup for safety reasons but will provide this, I work for a municipal government agency and if you can obtain heat transfer oil from the combustion dept. and have a presto pot you have what it takes to vertically dip with great potential and the dipping rods from LC are excellent for this. I have a setup with 5 different colors at stable temps to make loads of tubes without burning or major color change.

[djs]

Once you find your containers (if metal) I would use a pid from ebay and a this http://www.mcmaster.com/#3641k23/=yeapoz heating cord from McMaster Carr .

Edited August 7, 2015 by djs

[rockslide]

Once you find your containers (if metal) I would use a pid from ebay and a this http://www.mcmaster.com/#3641k23/=yeapoz heating cord from McMaster Carr .

have you used those heating cable before if yes how long did they last

[djs]

I have started using one for the last two months so that is all I can say for how long they will last.

[Bass-Boys]

travis,

 how long are the tubes you make from a pyrex cup ?

[Frank]

have you used those heating cable before if yes how long did they last

I have had one on a pot for four or five years and it is still going. These must stay in contact with what you are heating so don't over lap them. The 100 watt one is good for a thinner pot but if it is thicker and aluminum a longer higher watt one is a better choice.

[RSullivan]

Thanks to all so far.

 

 

I did some research on Pyrex while I was looking at lab suppliers.

I posted my findings under the topic 'Pyrex' vs. borosilicate

 

Thanks Dave (Vodkaman) for the lab suppliers suggestion. I am now looking

at 'Tall Form' Pyrex (borosilicate) beakers. I will probaby go with this

option.

 

I have let my imagination run wild and have found that in my 

desired production arrangement a transparent container is still desirable.

I understand that metal containers are safer as they will not crack or break.

 

Dave (Vodkaman) said 'I don't think tall and thin is a good idea in Pyrex'.

Why? Are their reasons other than the possibility of knocking it over and

it breaking?

 

There is also a rational as to why I want a 6" wide container. I have my own

dipping rods. These are not single rods but are rod bundles not un-like the 

LureCraft dipping rods.

 

Travis:

I am going to dip ~100 of them (two color) at a time.

The left over plastisol will be injected into swim / jerk molds

(Though I do not know what I will do with those critters!).

 

I am aware that I could do this with a 6 cup Pyrex, but I find it more

entertaining to attempt to do it in the fastest / most efficient way

possible!

 

I may be interested in your thick-walled aluminum pots if I can get over

my perceived need for a transparent dipping pot!. 

Willing to sell Them?

 

Gon2Long:

Sounds like a great idea, but 'heat transfer oil' sounds way to scary

for a newbee like me to be dealing with!

 

djs: 

Ahhh! Of Course! Genius!

So you do not use hot-plates for your dipping containers?

 

Thanks All.

[Vodkaman]

RSullivan - The tall thin in Pyrex problem was not a stability reason, as that applies to all tall narrow containers.

I saw thermal shock as the problem. I could be totally wrong here, as I am not managing to convince myself 100%. My argument is that thermal shock breakages are due to thermal expansion, were the cooler part fails to move with the expanded, heated portion of the glass and the container shears. The tall narrow container has less material to move with the expansion.

This argument is probably more applicable to material thickness rather than length, with thicker materials being more resistant to thermal shock.

Dave

[Basseducer]

I once saw a video of these guys making hundreds of tubes at one time. They had their containers with plastisol suspended in vats of boiling peanut oil. The oil kept the plastisol at the right dipping temp without it coming in direct contact with heat source. Can't remember where I saw it though. We gave a lot of discussion to this topic several years ago. I ended up with a six inch candle mold suspended in a Fry Daddy surrounded with coarse sand and veggie oil. Worked well for plastisol that was already heated to temp. Would not kick it over.

[gone2long]

I hear ya it works great but a presto pot full of 325-350 oil is dangerous, I mounted the pot permanently to the table and made a custom lid that held the cans so they were submerged in the oil I've since bought tube molds I just get a much better product without the hassle of tail splitting and the danger of all that hot oil plus plastic.

[Vodkaman]

Even if the oil was at a safer temperature, the heat loss would be dramatically reduced.

Here is a link to a table that shows smoke point of various oils. Several would be most suitable for working with plastisol.

http://www.seriouseats.com/2014/05/cooking-fats-101-whats-a-smoke-point-and-why-does-it-matter.html

Dave

[gone2long]

I'm probably mis-representing it as oil it is actually heat transfer fluid, not sure what brand I've since tossed the container years ago but I know it had a very high flash point well beyond the presto pot it was in.

[Travis]

travis,

 how long are the tubes you make from a pyrex cup ?

 

The tubes are standard bass tubes.   I could knock out a lot of tubes at one time dipping them the way I did. 

 

 

I honestly would skip glass for this application for various reasons.  It is going to get scratched with salt.  Anyone that has dealt with plastic will tell you salt is going to scratch the the pyrex and will just as easily scratch the non stick coatings in the DIY presto pots.

[bflp]

I use my injector with the nozzle removed. It's a tall thin container, and when I start using up plastisol I can push the injector a little to raise the level of the plastisol.

[fishon-son]

ok ill help out on this one...if you want to dip tube baits heres my way..i took a 6 in piece of 2inch tubing had a local weld shop tig weld a 6 inch round by 3/8 inch thick piece to the bottom to seal off one end..i heat my plastisol in the micro  put my tubing on a hot plate keeping it warm and pour the plastisol in to it...i use a butter knife to mix it up so i get no hot spots then dip my rods in and hang them.....works all day long but remember this i only turn the plate on number 3 to 4 and check the temp all the time ..IT WILL BURN REAL QUICK.....start at number 2and work your way up.......have fun....you can use any size tubing you want up to the dia. of your plate..  cost me a 12 pk of bud to have the guy weld it ..you can go to a scrap yard for the aluminum stock...its cheap there...and they have alot of it....

[RSullivan]

Thanks Fishon-son.

I have finally decided to set up my tube dipping station and have one final question.

 

I have decided to go with metal containers rather than Pyrex (could not find appropriate size) or real Pyrex tall form beakers (The correct size but they are still 'glass'). So all I have to do is decide which type of metal would be best for the containers:

1.) Asparagus cookers. All Clad makes a 18/10 stainless steel (gauge unknown) container with handles and a lid. 8 3/4" tall and 5 3/4" in diameter. Looks like $59.99

2.) Polar Ware makes a stainless steel beaker (grade unknown, gauge unknown) no handles, no lid. 8 1/4" tall and 5 3/8" diameter. Looks like $53.00.

 

So here is my final question:

Would an aluminum container be better than a stainless steel container?

 

I know aluminum conducts heat better than stainless steel.

I am also aware that aluminum 'sheds' heat faster than stainless steel (utilized as cheap heat-sinks).

 

I am not sure if aluminum would be a better container (transfer heat better from hot plate, less hot spots, more uniform heat transfer) than stainless steel.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Thanks.

[Travis]

I think going metal is the much better choice over pyrex, lab glass, etc...  too many years of using it (15 plus and daily use)  to recommend for what you are doing.  I have my doubts if anyone, that uses it routinely, would recommend it for your application.  

 

Aluminum or steel...to be honest I don't think their will be any appreciable difference for what you are trying to achieve.  I used aluminum and insulated the outside as I mentioned in the previous post.  I left the bottom open and heated on a griddle.  For the way I dipped just using a Pyrex cup was quick enough as one can really dip a lot of tubes and hang them quickly once the technique is down.  I only had 50 rods so would need to stop and start sliding tubes off to start dipping again.  I would nuke it for about 30 seconds during this time and start dipping again.  

 

 

 

Here is the aluminum container I used.    

 

Edited September 5, 2015 by Travis

[fishon-son]

thats a little scary travis.....dose it work good for you?

[Travis]

I didn't use the aluminum container set up too long.  For me just using Pyrex cups was quick enough.  If I had a lot of tubes to dip I would crank up the presto pot and stirrer and just fill cups as needed.