Dubyap Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 Hi all, Ive made my first plugs ever this past week and a half. One is currently curing, a lot slower than id like, I used 4 hour epoxy and im not sure I mixed it correctly, but nevertheless getting there. Im going fishing this weekend and the total cure time for the 4 hour epoxy is 3 days. My second carved bait wont have enough time to cure with the 4 hour epoxy topcoat. I have a can of some shellac that dries and cures very quicky in comparison, I used it as a sealer before priming for paint. Does anyone have any experiece with using Shellac sprays as a topcoat? From what I have read on here its mostly used as a sealer before priming. Here's a link to the stuff im using. http://www.hardwarestore.com/bulls-eye-shellac-sealer-and-finish-170639.aspx#1 Thanks! this forum has helped me out a lot thus far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 I'm not familiar with "4 hour epoxy" but in my experience any epoxy should be hard and slick to the touch within 24 hours. If yours isn't, it probably never will be and will need another coat of properly measured and well mixed epoxy to correct the problem. Sorry, no experience using shellac as a topcoat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubyap Posted August 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 It is just now starting to lose its stickiness/harden and i am closing in on 3 days. I think your right, im not sure if i didnt mix it enough or if the proportions were off, but the way the first bait looks and feels has me concerned something has gone awry. Essentially im looking for a quick curing topcoat I can use on my second bait to have it ready to go for friday evening. Shellac would be great as its sitting on a shelf in my basement, but if there is an alternative I can purchase at my local HD store im open to suggestions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougarftd Posted August 13, 2015 Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 everyone I have asked says shellac will yellow over time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubyap Posted August 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2015 Just in general? or as a topcoat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis Posted August 14, 2015 Report Share Posted August 14, 2015 Shellac does not have the durability to be used as a topcoat its water resistance also is poor in comparison to epoxy and other typical topcoats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fshng2 Posted August 14, 2015 Report Share Posted August 14, 2015 I think you are on the right track even though I haven't used shellac. Check out Saltys web site https://www.saltwaterplugs.com/kitinstructionspage.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis Posted August 14, 2015 Report Share Posted August 14, 2015 Simply to the point shellac is not durable, scratches easily, and prone to water damage...lacquers or poly are both better choices (still poor however). It makes no sense to use it as a topcoat as there are no positive attributes for use as a lure making top coat. I am with Bob in regards to epoxy set time...and as he pointed out it usually comes down to the user poorly measured and mixed. The Zinsser Bulls eye is easy stuff to use for sure and it is great for some applications. It does have wax in it but I have never had any issues with paint and topcoat failure with it on lures. I don't use it as much now and prefer just to dip into a jar of Zinsser Sealcoat as it is wax free and a heavier cut than the spray. You can get flakes and make your own cuts also with with denatured alcohol. http://www.rustoleum.com/product-catalog/consumer-brands/zinsser/interior-wood-finishes/sealcoat-universal-sanding-sealer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fshng2 Posted August 14, 2015 Report Share Posted August 14, 2015 Salty recommends Shellac as one option for a finish. For Top Coat they recommend to topcoat your lure with either a thin coat of Devcon 30 minute epoxy, several coats of spar varnish, multi coats of Krylon etc clear in a spray can, or some of the new water based polyurethanes can work well also. Other products are available to mail order but you want to have it ready to fish this weekend. If it were me I would go with 30 minute epoxy, mix well, brush on a very very thin coat and put on a turner or turn by hand till tacky. Check leftover epoxy sample to know when epoxy is tacky, not the lure. Should be very hard by morning. Good luck. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis Posted August 14, 2015 Report Share Posted August 14, 2015 I agree they are recommending shellac for use in a "finish".... as in how to complete a blank lure. They are recommending shellac as an initial sealer option. Just making sure it is clear that shellac is not an acceptable top coat. They do mention to avoid anything with wax and most shellacs readily available do contain wax. The sanding sealer I linked is wax free and can be used without much worries (the only wax free shellac Zilsnner sells). Shellac is often used to promote adhesion of other finishes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubyap Posted August 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2015 Thanks guys, I will throw on a thin coat of 30 min epoxy in the afternoon and hopefully it will be good to go by sat morning. Also, good to know the shellac isnt completely useless. As these are the first baits ive made, im super curious to see if they will even work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted August 14, 2015 Report Share Posted August 14, 2015 Devcon 2 Ton is a "30 min epoxy" that I use. It cures to the touch in about 5 hours and I often fish lures coated with it the next morning, although the chemical cure process continues for several days. There's always an exception to the rule but most 30 minute epoxies will perform the same as Devcon. Guys don't necessarily understand "measure it accurately and mix it thoroughly". Pouring equal diameter pools of epoxy can be OK and will work 95% of the time but to really nail it, use a pair of epoxy syringes. As far as mixing, I do it in a small jar cap covered in tin foil and use a strip cut from a credit card, and I really get after it for about a full minute. When I'm finished, the epoxy is white from air being beaten into it but that disappears quickly, especially since I often mix a FEW drops of denatured alcohol into the epoxy as a last step to remove bubbles and extend the brushing time by a minute or so. You have about 3 minutes to brush on the epoxy, which is long enough to coat 2 baits, no problem, and maybe 3 if you push it. The small amount of denatured alcohol thins the mix slightly and makes it easier to brush on and level out, but will not greatly extend the curing time or compromise the chemical process, as some other solvents will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Posted August 14, 2015 Report Share Posted August 14, 2015 Fshng2, I briefly read through Salty's build order and I didn't see where he used Shellac as a top coat..It looks like he uses it as a seal coat for the raw wood...Nathan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fshng2 Posted August 14, 2015 Report Share Posted August 14, 2015 Fshng2, I briefly read through Salty's build order and I didn't see where he used Shellac as a top coat..It looks like he uses it as a seal coat for the raw wood...Nathan You are correct Shellac is one option to use as a protective sealer under the top coat.(Zilsnner's Shellac does not have wax as Travis noted) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverMan Posted August 15, 2015 Report Share Posted August 15, 2015 I have used bullseye shellac as a sealer for years, used it just yesterday. It works great, very simple and not nearly as toxic smelling as so many others. I would not use it as a topcoat though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty's Posted August 16, 2015 Report Share Posted August 16, 2015 Better read again. Salty doesn't recommend shellac for a finish. It does however work for sealing a fishing lure before you prime it. And I dislike even saying stuff like this because people take it as gospel. Will say again what it says on the webpage. What works for one doesn't always for someone else. It's up to you to test it and find what works for you. Salty recommends Shellac as one option for a finish.For Top Coat they recommend to topcoat your lure with either a thin coat of Devcon 30 minute epoxy, several coats of spar varnish, multi coats of Krylon etc clear in a spray can, or some of the new water based polyurethanes can work well also.Other products are available to mail order but you want to have it ready to fish this weekend.If it were me I would go with 30 minute epoxy, mix well, brush on a very very thin coat and put on a turner or turn by hand till tacky. Check leftover epoxy sample to know when epoxy is tacky, not the lure. Should be very hard by morning.Good luck. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty's Posted August 16, 2015 Report Share Posted August 16, 2015 Know what else works good is HOUSE PAINT. Many famous wood lure builders on the cape years back used Benjamin Moore Exterior White to dip their lures in. Who knows how many cracked but the stuff sold for cheep $$$ back then. I have original catalogs from the 50's that lures sold for 2-$3. It's what you want to put into it. Tons of stuff works on the cheap. Long live Rustoleum oil base. Use sign paint. Couple dips of white will seal your lure then paint away. Best stuff out there bar none is acrylic lacquer. I had a great source for it until they phooked me over on something I developed. Going to be gone soon. That always take away the good stuff. They not that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis Posted August 16, 2015 Report Share Posted August 16, 2015 I dipped a lot of cranks in Zinsser Bullseye Primer. Wasn't too long ago and the subject of acrylic lacquers came up based on the use by a builider overseas. (CAB acrylic lacquer). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazmail Posted August 21, 2015 Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 I remember buying and using ''clear shellac'' about 7-8 years ago- at the time it seemed to be the SIMPLE do all coating, unfortunately was not. As has been said above, it yellows, is hard (brittle), it marks easily and after a few months it will start cracking/ crazing all over--does not like the wood expanding OR sunlight. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
