Skeeter Posted August 27, 2004 Report Share Posted August 27, 2004 Jaime, There are two ways to go here. You can either just reclearcoat the lure and fish it or completely repaint the lure. I would not replace the lip in it since it is the weighted lip. I really don't know how you would get the lead into a new lip to stay. The lead in the lip keeps the lure at the digging angle throughout the retrieve. Most belly weighted lures just belly out and run flat when they hit bottom. The lead keeps this from happening. The only other way to do this is to chest weight the bait. Unless you know how to properly chest weight then I would keep the original lip in place. If it does break then worry about it then. I would just sand the bait smooth. You don't have to strip it bare unless you want to. undercoat it, paint it, clearcoat it, and fish it. You did a fine job on the other one. Bagley baits are weighted light. They can handle the extra clearcoat just fine. They will still have a great action. Skeeter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaime Posted August 27, 2004 Report Share Posted August 27, 2004 Skeeter, Thank you very much for the advice. I agree with you on leaving the lip on. It does seem filmsy but at the same time it seems that it has taken some abuse and still remains intact. I'm wondering if a thin coat of devcon over the lip would help reinforce it?? If I did this, would I need to lightly sand the lip?? Also, how would the weight on the lip effect the lure if i were to modify the lip and make it square? I guess I'm trying for that "hunting" effect! Or should I just leave it as is? The more I think about the lure the more possibilities for modifications/improvements pop into my head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tm Customs Posted August 27, 2004 Report Share Posted August 27, 2004 Jamie, If you are going to take the time to re-finish the whole lure it would be dumb not to re-place the lip if you have fished DB3's befor you know how hard the pull and smack into the bottom. It is very easy to just take the lip out and trace a pattern on lexan and cut a new one you can drill a whole for the lead and you'll be in goo shape. If you wait to do till till after you paint it chances are it will take some paint off when you remove it. As for putting a square lip on it wont work because the lip slot is in teh wrong possion. And DB3's don't hunt you need to get a shallow diver a BB I have had at lease 50 DB's and never has one hunted. teh only way you can get around re-placing the lip is if you are going to fish it so it does not hit the bottom or where the bottom is soft like mud of sand otherwards it will break trust me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrfan8 Posted August 28, 2004 Report Share Posted August 28, 2004 The lip can be replace and reweighted. IMO like I said before granted those lips do break easily they are more I guess you would say flimsy and cause the lure to run a little differently than if I replaced the lip with a new one that had the weight in it. But over all you may not even notice the difference if you were not used to fishing the old lead lips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeeter Posted August 28, 2004 Report Share Posted August 28, 2004 Don't modify the lip by cutting it. Just leave it or change it out. If you have ideas then get some balsa and make your own. Does anyone know of a way to remove the lip out of one of these lures without cutting? I know that for the past 20 years they have used hot glue to put in the lips. Did they do that in the earlier ones also? How can you get the lip out cleanly? Skeeter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackjack Posted August 28, 2004 Report Share Posted August 28, 2004 This is what I do. I cut the lip off flush with the bait. Then take a hack saw blade that is thinner then the lip and start cutting(by hand) into the lip material. When you get to the back of the lip slot stop. The next part is the tricky part take an exacto knife and heat up the blade and clear out the remaining lip pieces. When you have the majority of the lip pieces out I soak the whole bait in Laquer thinner. In about 2 hours all of the remaing glue and lip plastic have softened .Clean the slot out again Let the bait dry for 24 hours, then Cut ya a new lip glue it in. Seal the bait, prime ,paint, clearcoat, and you are back in business!! It is a time consuming job but to me those old Bagleys are the boss!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mesabooger Posted August 28, 2004 Report Share Posted August 28, 2004 If you're going to refinish the lure you could microwave it for a couple of seconds, this would melt the hot glue and you should be able to wiggle the lip out. I had a couple of poes I did this to. I'm not sure if it would cause a problem with the lead though, it didnt seem to bother the poes. Good luck and be SAFE, if you do microwave it dont stand directly in front of the microwave it could explode if there's a lot of moisture in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaime Posted August 30, 2004 Report Share Posted August 30, 2004 thanks guys for all of the great advice. I've decided to leave the lip in the lure and just reinforce it with a thin layer of devcon. TM, I hear what you're saying and I certainly agree with you but I wanted some of the original pieces on the lure to maintain some of it's originality. I still haven't decided if I will fish the lure once it's complete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tm Customs Posted August 30, 2004 Report Share Posted August 30, 2004 Jamie, I am not trying to give you a hard time or anything, I just know you would be bummed if the first tme you fished it the lip broke Hopefully the devcon will work if it does let me know I have a few I would'nt mind fishing Good luck, post a pic when your done. Taylor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatchingConcepts Posted August 30, 2004 Report Share Posted August 30, 2004 Those old brass hanger Bagleys DB3 are special, but if the the lip is broken or stressed. without a doubt I would turn it into a BB3 with a few easy modifications. I think the action and qualities of the shallow running square lipped BB3 is much more sought after than the DB3 so I started going monster garage on my Bagley brass DBs that were no longer fishable in their deep diving form. Dont do this to collectible or good quality vintage DB's. First off I am talking about first generation Bagley balsa Bs, they have all brass hangers and the best ones are the early ones with fatter chunky body style and urathane coating (usually develope age lines) When I started modifying them, I would spend much time removing the old broken deep lip and filling slot, but found a quicker way that doesnt hurt the action what so ever of the shallow runner, and I even prefer to retain the original finish even if battle scarred and requiring a little epoxy sealing here and there.. Yes you can strip the whole thing down and completely refinish it, but for some reason it just loses a little of the Bagley magic when you do that. I even try to avoid completely re-sealing the topcoat as it adds weight and I want the lure to be as close to the fish killer it was in the 70's. As stated above, this proceedure produces a BB3 with a good chance at a hunting bait, but it wont be pretty. Again, I think action speaks louder than pretty finish. use a dremel or file and score and cut away the remaining deep diving lip off nose of DB, be careful to leave brass line tie intact. bend hanger down out of way and file the remaing lip flush with nose. cut off lead pill with a sidecutter and cut one end of the two strands of brass hanger as close to nose of bait as possible. straighten brass wire out and shorten brass wire to approx an inch and a half leaving the one end attached yet. then bend / double back the end of the brass over itself about an 1/8 of an inch on end. drill a small hole just below the old hanger deep enough to accept the inch of wire. mix epoxy and fill hole with epoxy using paper clip or thin wire. then using needle nose feed brass into hole and re-shape new bend for line attachment. brass bends easily and can be made rounder after epoxy dries, just leave enough to work with to make good loop about the same size as hook attachments. (original BBs had the line tine just below the tip of nose of bait, not on the nose, so going below the old lip and then bending a smooth loop will get you right where you need to be) use extra epoxy mixed to lightly seal old lip/ nose area and any other dings in bait, especially around old hook hangers. Now cut a new lip out of thin lexan (about 5/64 thick). original lip is 1 inch by 1 1/8 inch by 5/8 inch. original lip slot was cut at a 50 degree angle from centerline of bait 3/8 inch below line tie entry point. lip angle is critical, if you can make a jig to hold lure and use bandsaw with guide to get it perfect. Depth of lip is 5/16. lightly round radius of leading corners of cut lip and glue in place. I have a box of these little monsters and they fish every bit as well as a original brass BB3 which are now all hanging up for display. Pics below, hope I explained the operation well enough to make sense... Herman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tally Posted August 31, 2004 Report Share Posted August 31, 2004 Could someone tell me the size / diameter of the brass wire used in the original B's. thanks Tally Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tm Customs Posted August 31, 2004 Report Share Posted August 31, 2004 20ga mabey a tad bigger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeeter Posted August 31, 2004 Report Share Posted August 31, 2004 Catching Concepts, Very informative. Good post. Thanks for sharing it with us. Skeeter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpoRoller Posted September 1, 2004 Report Share Posted September 1, 2004 Lord, talk about an informative series! Thanks guys for sharing all the information. IF someone else like me didn't know a darn thing about Bagleys they can just about learn it all here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaime Posted September 4, 2004 Report Share Posted September 4, 2004 hey there! i'm wondering if someone could please tell me what colors are used in the old bagley DB # 3 (pic below) here's what i'm guessing: scales - reddish brown (mixture of brown with a hint of red) body color - cream color??? (haven't figured the right mixture of paint) under belly - orange eyes - outer yellow; pupil black gill - red (transparent???) strips - smoke kill dot - opaque black as you might know, i'm trying to get as close to the original paint job as possible, so any advice is very much appriciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
