Crankbait Hook Hangers Wire And Belly Weight

[Blacklabelsociety]

Whats up my Lure Making Friends. I would like to ask you all if it was necessary to use a wire thru system or just twist the wire and glue it in. Also is it better to put the Belly weight with the bottom hook hanger or the the throat under the lip. Which one has the best performance.

[Tracy G]

I always use twisted ss wire for my bass size cranks. I use a 3\16" pine dowel for to anchor the rear hook hanger in. It holds the twisted wire better than the balsa ( just a little reinforcement). I anchor the belly hook hanger in the ballast weight. Hope this helps. Feel free to pm me if you need to.

[JRammit]

Howdy!

Wasnt long ago i had the same questions.. Since then ive only built about a dozen crank baits, but since most of them were failures, ive learned alot!

I think of a crank bait as more of a "machine" than a fishing lure.... Change one component, and the whole operation changes

The need for a thru wire depends on the material of the body.. Some guys use them for balsa baits, but there are other methods as well...... Definitely not needed with hardwood or PVC, twisted wire set in epoxy is plenty strong (ive tested mine by hanging a 30 lb dumbbell from the hook hangers)

As for where to place the ballast (weight), there are formulas and equasions here in the archives to help with that... But ultimately it comes down to testing..... When designing a new crank bait, i like to build one or two that i never plan to use.. Once i get them right, i can follow the correct steps to build the final product

[Blacklabelsociety]

Thanks for the reply's. Does the weight in the Throat make the lure Dive more or does the crankbait nose down to much.

Thanks for the reply's. Does the weight in the Throat make the lure Dive more or does the crankbait nose down to much.

[JRammit]

Might make it dive quicker, but not deeper... And if the weight is too far from the CG of the body, you sacrifice action

[JRammit]

Here is a verry good thread to read explaining how different components of a crank bait work together

http://www.tackleunderground.com/community/topic/29773-lip-size-vs-depth/?fromsearch=1

[BobP]

I rarely use thru-wiring on baits anymore, opting instead for longer hand twisted wire "screw eyes" that are epoxied into pre-drilled holes.  Every builder has to decide for himself whether thru-wiring is appropriate/desirable.  As far as ballast placement goes, it depends on what action you want your bait to have.  The majority of custom wood crankbaits sold come with integral belly weights/hook hangers.  Obviously, one reason for that is it's easier to construct a crankbait with fewer steps involved.  I use integral weights/hangers too but I may add other weights, just depending on what I'm trying to get the bait to do.  Neither I nor anyone else can tell you reliable rules for ballast placement.  Yes, throat weighting will make the bait swim with a more nose down attitude.  And that will change the angle of attack for the bait's lip and its performance.  That may be a very good thing or a bad thing, depending on the whole bait's design and how it performs with other ballast placements.  So like a lot in bait making, you just have to try variations and test them on the water to see how they work and whether the bass agree with your ideas.

 

I built a shallow flat sided bait that had extreme front ballasting.  So much so that it sat in the water completely vertical at rest, with just a little of its tail sticking above the surface.  It was one of the most productive shallow baits I ever made.  But the ballasting was only one part of the bait.  The body size, shape, thickness, lip angle, size, configuration, line tie position all figured into how the bait performed.

Edited August 23, 2015 by BobP

[JRammit]

^^^ ^^^

Blacklabel, if youre new to the site, there are some guys here who REALLY know their stuff.... Theres one of them!

Im not, but i try

[Travis]

I do most mine as Bob does.  Combined hook hanger/weight all in one and will add other weight in the throat, tail, sides,etc....to make changes.  I also will at times will do a split body and weight in cavities put into the blank halves.   For the line tie and rear hook hangers just twisted and glued into drilled holes as I have never had any negative experiences with this method in over a decade.

Edited August 23, 2015 by Travis

[Blacklabelsociety]

Im probably asking questions that have been ask a Thousand Times. But I Thank all of you for the Reply's. Im kind of discouraged. Im a perfectionist and the unknown"s are numerous. One last question is for the combination of weight and hook hanger. How are you all putting those 2 together. I have been screwing threaded hooks hangers into lead weights with super glue on the threads. Im going to sit today and research U.T. today.

[Travis]

I do it two ways essentially.  One just modify a lead sinker, casting weight, or pour a similar design:  lead fishing sinkers and drill out the line pass,  casting sinkers at times buy clipping the tie and then passing the hook hanger, or either pour some weights with the hangers in place also   Second method for many of my cranks I use lead shot and mix with epoxy. I will drill the weight cavity/hook hanger area out and then extend the center just a fraction to hold the line tie vertical. I use a forstner bit so center point is marked and then use a small bit.  I then will dump my lead shot/epoxy mixture into the cavity.

[Vodkaman]

I cast all my ballast weights in a simple wood mold. I drill the cavity between two clamped, pinned slabs of wood.

If I want to place the eye through the ballast weight, I add a brass pin to the mold. The secret is to pull the lead weight off the pin with pliers before it cools. The wires of the eye loop are passed through the hole and folded back over the sides. Once the weight is glued into the body, the eye cannot be pulled out.

Dave

[JRammit]

Second method for many of my cranks I use lead shot and mix with epoxy. I will drill the weight cavity/hook hanger area out and then extend the center just a fraction to hold the line tie vertical. I use a forstner bit so center point is marked and then use a small bit. I then will dump my lead shot/epoxy mixture into the cavity.

That's pretty clever!

How do you keep the weight consistent?..... Would counting the bb's be accurate enough??

[Travis]

I use the stop on the drill press to know how deep to drill and record that along with the bit diameter so when making that deign crank from here on out know that if that hole is drilled and filled with epoxy/shot mixture (size 12 shot) all is good. I do have the weight recorded and variances that push it to the limits but honestly I try to keep it simple and just mix up some epoxy and shot in a dixie cup and fill the baits as needed.  Left over gets poured into a silicone mold to make inserts or usually tossed into the trash.   I can calculate anything if needed and determine other hole diameters, weighting material,  etc.. but find it quicker and easier to skip that and just do it in the shop.  

[BobP]

You can buy belly weights with hook hangers molded into them here:  http://lurepartsonline.com/Online-Store/Muskie-Bait-Parts/Plug-Belly-Weight-Inserts.html

 

I like them because it keeps construction simple.  However, it's just as good as far as the final product is concerned to drill a hole for the belly hook hanger and then drill hole(s) for the belly weights, and that offers you more options about where to place the ballast.  Of course, you have to fill/repair all the holes you make in the bait after you epoxy in all the hardware.  I use Elmer's water based wood filler for that because it's fast and easy to sand smooth.  It's worth noting that the lower the ballast is in the body of the lure, the more stable the lure tends to be.  But sometimes you want to place the ballast higher in the body to generate some body roll in addition to the wiggle.  This is something that encourages the bait to "hunt", a desirable trait - if you get everything else right.

 

My best advice for a new hobby builder - start out by copying a successful commercial wood bait that you particularly admire.  They have been engineered and tested to work.  And buy a small digital scale to weigh all the components that go into your bait so you can make as exact a copy as possible and later, so you can document how you built a good bait that you want to replicate.  Building crankbaits is an exacting craft.  You need to document how you build your baits if you want to improve later versions of that bait.  

Edited August 23, 2015 by BobP

[Blacklabelsociety]

I am using Lacquer Sanding Sealer to Seal the Bait and the Balsa soaks it up. I have to dip them 5 6 or 7 times. Is this normal.

[Blacklabelsociety]

I drilled some weights to the size of my hook hangers that are twisted and was wanting to ask how you all secure them. Im beginning kind of insecure.

[Travis]

I think most just fold over the ends like a cotter pin once inserted in the weight. To remove any wiggle you can use some epoxy and dip the hook hanger before inserting.  Usually it will take care of itself when gluing in anyway but won't hurt.

 

Yes it is usual for the balsa to suck it up.  Super glue (dollar general store) works better.  Get some nitrile or latex gloves and cut the fingers off to make some finger cots or buy some and use your finger to spread it over the balsa.

Edited August 23, 2015 by Travis

[BobP]

I sometimes use a thin solution of cellulose propionate (aka "prop") dissolved in acetone for undercoating balsa.  The first several dips get sucked into the balsa and emit bubbles.  I just keep dipping until I get a nice smooth coating on the bait.  That's usually 5 to 8 dips.  Because the acetone evaporates very quickly, I only have to pause for a few minutes between dips, so it's not that troublesome to do the multiple dips if you're coating a batch of 5-6 baits.  I'm not familiar with the sanding sealer you use but say "do whatever it needs" to get the result you want.  If you're concerned about the time it takes, you can use a 30 minute slow cure epoxy like Devcon Two Ton to undercoat balsa baits.  One coat and it is smooth, hard, and waterproof.  Lightly sand it to remove the gloss before painting.  It takes 8-12 hours to get hard enough to sand and is pretty much fully cured in 24 hours.  One good thing about epoxy.  You can use it to both undercoat and topcoat a wood bait.  Learn how to use the product and you're set for both tasks, plus you only need to keep one coating on hand for both jobs.  But you need to build yourself a lure turner when you start using epoxy. 

[JRammit]

1) epoxy

2) paint

3) epoxy

I havnt built a lure turner yet, but it is high on the list.... I have done without for a while...... Just hang the bait and flip every minute for 20-30 min or so (touch the leftover/unused epoxy to know when its hard enough to stop fliping the lure)

[Vodkaman]

Further to Travis' post No18, I use Super glue (CA) with my finger. The solvent for cleaning your finger is acetone.

Dave

[JRammit]

Further to Travis' post No18, I use Super glue (CA) with my finger. The solvent for cleaning your finger is acetone.

Dave

Acetone?... Thats good to know... Ive been using "time"

[Vodkaman]

JR - I used to use time, and there was something calming about picking the glue skin off. But, if you have got things to do, this is time wasted.

Dave