SW Lures Posted September 5, 2015 Report Share Posted September 5, 2015 Being new to crankbait making, I have came to the conclusion that homemade tools (jigs) can be helpful. I have already made a bill cutting jig, that holds the bait firmly. I'm now looking to make one for drilling tie lines and hanger holes. Can't decide just how yet. I'm not looking to plagiarize anybody's work, just your thoughts of what is needed. Also I have a carving machine which works well, but when it comes to cleaning up the baits, I know that the hand sanding that I'm doing could be done better. I'm trying to get the bait as smooth and natural as I can. I use a miniature wood file set, then a sandpaper stick (glued sandpaper on a flat piece of wood). I do have many power tools, but find hand sanding to be better. Am I correct in your opinions? Thanks for any help and advice. Dale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis Posted September 5, 2015 Report Share Posted September 5, 2015 Dale jigs are great tool to add for sure. For drilling line ties and hangers best to do it to the square blank. Makes making jigs simple as all you need is a stop at that point. I hand sand as it doesn't take much time with the basswood or balsa I use. I will use a flap sander also at times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted September 5, 2015 Report Share Posted September 5, 2015 I don't know if this is feasible with a carving machine. I drill all my ballast holes after I cut out the profile of my bait, while it still has flat, parallel sides. I use a compass to draw a centerline around the bait, mark my locations, put the bait in a wood-jawed clamp, and drill the hole with my drill press. Unless I'm using an integral weight hook hanger, I drill the pilot holes for my line tie and hook hangers free hand, with a portable drill. If your blanks are full shaped from the carving machine, I think you may have to make an individual jig for each different shape, or some kind of a padded jaw clamp that fits the bait's shape, to hold it so the centerline of the bait is oriented up, letting you drill your holes exactly centered. I do a lot of rough sanding and shaping with an oscillating belt sander, I carve with a Dremel and sanding drum, and fine sand with a palm sander. Finish sanding and touch up is by hand with fine paper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted September 5, 2015 Report Share Posted September 5, 2015 Check out the YouTube channel of user name "Paul Adams" , he's a master of luremaking jigs ,........good luck , Dieter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted September 5, 2015 Report Share Posted September 5, 2015 I'm of two minds about jigs and other procedures to control and mechanize crankbait building. On one hand, I think it's good practice to do everything you can to eliminate variability within a batch of crankbaits you're building. On the other hand, if you build a variety of styles, with new designs a frequent part of your hobby, making up jigs and patterns can be pretty tedious, especially during the development stage of a new crankbait. I also worry that relying on jigs can stifle creativity if you get a little lazy about your build process. Obviously, the more control in production the better if you are building crankbaits for sale. I don't, so just learned to shape and build crankbaits by hand after cutting out the initial shape on a jig saw. It taught me a lot of lessons about crankbait building and I think it also prompted me to develop some skills that I otherwise never would have. So I guess it's "to each his own". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRammit Posted September 5, 2015 Report Share Posted September 5, 2015 As mentioned, all this work is easier done on a square cut out than a carved body.. But im guessing your carving machine doesn't give you that option Heres what i would try: Make a 2 piece mold of the body with a hard material like bondo, making sure the edges are square... Open it up, mark/measure your holes and slot angle.. Close it up and carefully make your incisions From then on... Clamp, cut, drill, next Sounds too simple, so im sure im missing something?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted September 5, 2015 Report Share Posted September 5, 2015 For hand carving, as Travis stated, drill the square blanks. Using a pin alignment method on a drill press, the hole alignment will be perfect every time. For machine carved blanks, pre-drilling is not possible. But, every blank is the same size and you can use this fact. I make a Bondo mold for each end, using PVC pipe as a mold housing and back drilling the hole guides. If the holes are not perfect, you can sand the base to correct the angle. The mold jigs last well, but if the holes start to get sloppy, you can drill out and fit SS tubes as guides. I have never felt the need to do this, but it is always good to have a plan B. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW Lures Posted September 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2015 Thanks for all of your idea's. Bob I have been told that I'm an perfectionist. Over the years I found the people to be true. I never get sloppy in my work, I take pride in that. There lies my problem as far as the finish sanding of wooden baits. I see fine ridges in the contour of the lures body. I work to get that one out and I believe I create another. It's driving me nuts. I'm going to go with very fine sand paper and use my hand to maybe conform to the contour of the baits body, as Paul stated. I like the carver, just to get (almost) the same shape every time. After that I go to mainly hand work. I just started setting my shop up and what I'm doing is to get all tools together and anything else I need (jigs) for making baits. As I'm developing a few designs. I wrote some of this just to let y'all know a little about me and where I am at in making baits. Thank all of you again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted September 6, 2015 Report Share Posted September 6, 2015 The duplicator that I built left ridges that needed dealing with. I reduced them with a flapwheel attachment on a drill press. I did not find it necessary to go for a perfectly smooth finish, as the seal and base coats take care of any irregularities. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW Lures Posted September 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2015 I have to state this, after thinking about how I described the carver. I make what I call a prototype. This is done from my imagination and needs that I have or others have. I guess I could duplicate a manufactures product, but that's not my style. I'm at this time working on a gizzard shad bait that will dive to, give or take 25'. I want its colors and shape to imitate the real thing. This is for a trip I make each spring to catch "Rock Fish", Walleye and Smallmouth (trophies, I hope and have). So I'm a hobbyist also but the second to the end of the chain for the use of the bait....a fisherman, fish being the end user. Thanks Dave, that's what I was worried about. I'm about to start testing before it gets cold. I'm going to seal them and give them a trial run soon. I got to decide where to put the weights and how much (Archimedes will help me with the amount). Y'all have help me out greatly. I made the jig for drilling, using foam rubber glued to a hard rubber with texture to hold the lure in place. In time when I have more experience, I will pass your help on. Thank you; Dale 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanlures Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 Dale I have been a wood worker for years and you can reduce your sanding by using scrapers like they did before sandpaper, you can make your own from old putty knives, and cut the contours you want and they leave a very smooth finish that just requires a quick once over with 320 sandpaper. I use them for final shaping and smoothing. There are numerous videos on YouTube for sharpening and making scrapers. As an added plus they reduce the amount of expensive sandpaper needed for a project. Some of the old ways were the best , hope this helps 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 Jordanlures - an interesting suggestion, that I have not read on TU before. Welcome to TU. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW Lures Posted October 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 Thank you Jordanlures, I believe you are talking about the scrapers like "Red Devils". Honestly I have never thought about using them. I will give them a try. Since my last post I have learnt how to smooth the baits out better. I'm also experimenting on a "sand tumbler" to smooth them out also. This tool is looking promising. I will take you advice. Thank you and welcome! Dale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanlures Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 Dave and Dale, thanks for the positives, I am new to TU and looking forward to a lot of good info from other lure building folks, here is a good youtube video on scrapers and there use , you can buy a set of these cabinet scrapers from grizzly tool for about 15$ they are an invaluable asset in my small shop. I have almost abolished sandpaper and all that noxious dust from my shop, now I have a whole lot of shavings ( so much cleaner ) and once you see the finish left after a good sharp scraper you will wonder why sandpaper is ever used, well enough on my rant, hope this all helps. Thanks again for reading David J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 Fun video! Thanks for sharing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) I have to say my first instinct is there is a reason guys haven't heard it..but I have not tried it but will this afternoon. So you are using cabinet scrapers on lures? How long does it take you? I would think holding in one hand and scraping would be a less than ideal way of doing it. I am far from a pro when it comes to scrapers but do have a dozen or so I frequently use but never would even think to try to use it on a 3 inch bass crank. There would be no reason to sand after using a scraper either unless your are trying to scuff it up back up. 320 to prep for paint is in excess as generally accepted at 320 you have decreased the adhesion. Edited October 2, 2015 by Travis 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 Ok it went better than I expected. I tried a few different things. First all this was done on basswood blanks. They had been previously carved to the point where I would sand. I typically start with 120 and may go up to 220 (150 to 180 usually). I could do the final prep work faster for sure with sandpaper. Yes it creates dust but easily taken care of with a box fan/furnace filter set up. The scraper left very small shavings to "dust" but not the lovely wispy shavings I am accustomed to getting when using them. Mainly due being short strokes and the crank paint having no flat surfaces. Used some goose neck scrapers for some also. When I was done still ended up hitting it with sandpaper to take care of any small flat spots left by scraping a round surface (very fine and likely would be covered by a good seal coat/primer). Overall the process wasn't as fast in my opinion as sandpaper nor easier. i did three other blanks and speed does pick up some but I can't see sticking with it as sanding was easier. You guys should try it but I can't see this being a viable method as mentioned making them is easy and they are cheap if you decide to buy one. I will agree most would be well served adding card scrapers to their wood working activity but sandpaper has its time and place. Wood dust is a hot topic with many in the woodworking community with those that pay no attention to it to others that are borderline paranoid. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanlures Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 Travis thanks for the reply, I posted the video as a reference on how to use a scraper, and sharpen one, i use an old 1.25" wide band saw blade that I cut into short sections and put a concave cut out in the end. It works great to smooth out those last tool marks from the lathe or other machines and a little more precise than a carving knife because it takes shallower cuts. The cabinet scrapers can easily be modified to any profile you need, and yes I do hold the lure in my hand, its easier than holding it with a power sander, one note here, scraper must be sharp as all wood tools should always be, hope this cleared up any confusion thanks for the input on sandpaper grade, what do you use as a final sand before seal or paint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis Posted October 3, 2015 Report Share Posted October 3, 2015 Band saw blade works well. I have a few old junk saws I cut blanks out of and shape using a dremel, files, etc... to desired profile. I use them mainly in a scratch stock however. Usually I stop at 150 or so and seal with shellac then a quick pass again before paint. I have dipped with Zinsser Bulls Eye also as it usually end up being thick enough to cover up any imperfections and makes sanding less important. More like the undercoat on Poe's cranks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW Lures Posted October 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) I have forgot all about them, as you can see I was out in left field somewhere. I'll give these ideas a try. Thanks; Dale Edited October 3, 2015 by DaleSW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanlures Posted October 3, 2015 Report Share Posted October 3, 2015 On your shellac do you thin with alcohol for better penetration, or do you use as is right out of the can. On my round spook style baits that are shaped all on the lathe I have found if I shape with a skew, burnish with shavings, and take a tip from pen turners and seal with ca glue, I can rough sand it a little to give it tooth for paint and then get a really smooth finished product, I have zinnsers on the shelf that I use on bowls and the like just never have tried it as a seal coat but I will now, thanks Travis. By the way almost all my baits are eastern red cedar (aromatic juniper) that has really nice grain if I want to show it but is easy to seal and paint if not, thanks again for the tips David J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis Posted October 3, 2015 Report Share Posted October 3, 2015 On your shellac do you thin with alcohol for better penetration, or do you use as is right out of the can. On my round spook style baits that are shaped all on the lathe I have found if I shape with a skew, burnish with shavings, and take a tip from pen turners and seal with ca glue, I can rough sand it a little to give it tooth for paint and then get a really smooth finished product, I have zinnsers on the shelf that I use on bowls and the like just never have tried it as a seal coat but I will now, thanks Travis. By the way almost all my baits are eastern red cedar (aromatic juniper) that has really nice grain if I want to show it but is easy to seal and paint if not, thanks again for the tips David J. I use the sanding sealer. I believe it is a 3lb cut but find it works fine and don't dilute. I will sand lightly to get some tooth, as you pointed out, and knock any potential raised grain. I don't venture much outside of basswood and balsa. I use CA glue frequently to seal stuff on the lathe as it doesn't get much quicker. I have made a few cedar cranks but most of what I have is stuck on the shelf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diemai Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 Just dropped by , ...very interesting video this is , never was familiar to such scrapers , but just remembering to have read many years ago(in a describtion of how to make a old English style yew longbow) , that pieces of freshly broken glass could also be used as scrapers , ...in that particular describtion they were recommended to be used to smoothly round off and equally taper the ends of the bow's stave . I've also checked the internet for some more info , .......some stated , that they'd prefer using scrapers of pieces of broken glass to skip the effort of having to re-sharpen metal scrapers(just need to break some fresh glass ones) , but yet others complained about the increased hazards of the glass' sharp edges to the guiding hand . Greetings , Dieter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
