one-off baits Posted September 30, 2015 Report Share Posted September 30, 2015 I've been making molds for a while now but I want to get into making clay masters. I've done a good bit of reading and stuff have a few questions. When carving say, a swimbait, do you try to get most of your detail before baking or after? How do you keep the clay from sticking to your baking surface? What is the best sealant for clay and how do you fellas go about it? Was checking out big ponchos stuff and I'm.dying to try my own Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one-off baits Posted September 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2015 Looks like a lot of people like epoxy. Is this the same stuff thats in the syringe & you put it on with a brush? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one-off baits Posted October 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 Looks like a lot of people like epoxy. Is this the same stuff thats in the syringe & you put it on with a brush? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRammit Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 Big Panchos stuff is awesome!.. Be cool to see him on here more often to share his experience I wish i could help you, but i suck with clay!!... However i do use epoxy on my wooden masters, and yes, same syringe kind If i had to attempt a clay master, i would sculp the rough outline while it was wet, then attempt to carve the details once it was dry...... I have tried, alot of work can be ruined just by handling when wet Keep this in mind... Just because you are using clay doesnt mean the WHOLE master has to be clay.... Smaller tails, legs, ect can be made from other materials and attatched to the clay.... Even when hardened i found clay too brittle for these tiny parts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one-off baits Posted October 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 Yeah his stuff is amazing. Thanks for the clarification dude. I've used tons of epoxy back when I was making knives. I'm guessing you don't use the stuff that cures in 5 minutes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRammit Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 30 minute is better, cause it has time to level out nicely before curing... But ive used 5 minute for masters and it works fine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one-off baits Posted October 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 You've been a world of help brotha, just one more question and I think I'm good to go. Do you go back and sand with a high grit to a polish after coating with epoxy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRammit Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 (edited) No! Epoxy will be as smooth a finish you could ever wish for!... If it is lumpy, hit it with another coat of epoxy Also, if u choose the 30 minute, you will need to turn/rotate the master as it dries so the epoxy doesnt all run to one end Edited October 1, 2015 by JRammit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one-off baits Posted October 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 (edited) 10-4 thanks Edited October 1, 2015 by one-off baits Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRammit Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 No prob, good luck man!... And dont forget to show us in the gallery when its done! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 I make masters out of any materials that are close to the shape that I want and readily available. Simple shapes like a worm would be carved in a wood, balsa dowel from model shops would be a good place to start. A paddletail would be a wood body, polycarbonate or acrylic tail and a fillet of Bondo for the transition from body to tail. Anything with legs or other fine appendages, would start off with a wood body, but the legs can be anything from Q-tip stems, cocktail sticks, sate sticks, straws and so on, all glued together and epoxied for a glass smooth finish. digging your master out of the mold can be destructive to the master. So If you plan to use your master more than once, then you have to design and built it with this in mind. Worms and paddletails are usually safe enough, as the epoxy adds enough continuity strength for them to be withdrawn in one piece. Anything with legs is a different matter. If the master material is baked clay, the master will almost certainly be destroyed. But manufacturing from separate bits and pieces, the appendages can be soft glued. This will allow the legs to bend and move. If a leg breaks off, then it can easily be glued back on. You could try epoxy over the leggy master, but I don't bother. I might epoxy the legs separate for a good finish, but I mainly want to protect the part that took the most work to make, namely the carved body. When carving wooden masters, you don't have to be ultra careful. If you sand too much off or don't like the shape, you can add some Bondo filler and be carving again in an hour. Conclusion - Use your imagination for materials and think about the de-molding process. Dave DAve 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Creeper Baits Posted October 1, 2015 Report Share Posted October 1, 2015 I have made all of my models from clay. I hand sculpt it. It is what I am best at. The best clay I have found is Super Sculpy Extra Firm Gray. Once the master is done it is baked per directions. You need to be careful to support it into the proper shape while baking to prevent sagging. Once it is hard you can sand or finish the detail and bake again. The original mold is always silicone. I recently switched to a digital sculpting program and print the masters. This new set up is not much easier for the original but once it is done you can make changes without losing the original. Often I will need to make many changes to get what I am after. With the computer changes are much better, and you can change the size when you print instead of trying to replicate the original in another size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one-off baits Posted October 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 Thanks for all of the info guys. I'll post photos when I'm done with everything. Lil creeper- 'm dying for you to produce a 6-7" version of your sunfish swimbait. Maybe one sized to fit around a 10/0 weighted swimbait hook. It would be killer. I would buy a hundred of them lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Creeper Baits Posted October 2, 2015 Report Share Posted October 2, 2015 Thanks for all of the info guys. I'll post photos when I'm done with everything. Lil creeper- 'm dying for you to produce a 6-7" version of your sunfish swimbait. Maybe one sized to fit around a 10/0 weighted swimbait hook. It would be killer. I would buy a hundred of them lol. Thanks One-off. I am actually getting ready to make new versions of the Trash Fish and the Sun Fish on the computer. Once they are done I am going to make a larger version of the Sun Fish to fit a 10/0 beast. So it is coming sometime next year. Good luck with your project. Feel free to message or even call me if you have any questions. I have done a ton of mold making, and have made about every mistake possible. Benno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Rennie Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 I have made all of my models from clay. I hand sculpt it. It is what I am best at. The best clay I have found is Super Sculpy Extra Firm Gray. Once the master is done it is baked per directions. You need to be careful to support it into the proper shape while baking to prevent sagging. Once it is hard you can sand or finish the detail and bake again. The original mold is always silicone. I recently switched to a digital sculpting program and print the masters. This new set up is not much easier for the original but once it is done you can make changes without losing the original. Often I will need to make many changes to get what I am after. With the computer changes are much better, and you can change the size when you print instead of trying to replicate the original in another size. Your printing set up sounds interesting Benno. What set up are you using, and what kind of costs are involved? Thanks Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Creeper Baits Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 Your printing set up sounds interesting Benno. What set up are you using, and what kind of costs are involved? Thanks Dave Dave I use ZBrush as my program. This is a digital sculpting program. You can use whatever program you find best, but the printer is a Form1+ fromlabs. It is an SLA type printer. This the only type of printer that can do a good job with models. And it is amazing and easy to use. The printer costs about $3,000. Each print is about $2 - $5 depending on size. Normal extrusion printers cannot do the job to produce an accurate model. I own an AirWolf printer as well. Great printer but it can't do what the Form1 can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Rennie Posted October 6, 2015 Report Share Posted October 6, 2015 Thanks Benno, It sounds great, but expensive:) I'd like to have a go at 3d modelling in the future. Need to make my fortunes first though. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
