Shelts Unpainted Bodies

[Richard Prager]

Thanks for your post AZ Fisher...at least you got a response. The blanks are just sent from one place to another and sold. I should say one thing. Once I bought 80 topwater blanks from Wlure. They sank like a rock! I contacted them and received a response with 2 hours. They said they would check with the factory. Received an e-mail within 24 hours and a full refund. The guy as some integrity and told him so. i made a few zipper pulls for my kids and their friends and then sold the rest to someone whom I think wanted to make some sort or ornaments. Maybe I'm suppose to keep these two boxes and teach my kids to airbrush! Live and learn....LOL..but I'm slow and ordered twice! If you order some 2.5's from Wlure or even 110's and then order from just about any US vendor, you will see they are not the same..

[Vodkaman]

I smile when I see the list of faults, because I know exactly how they occurred. When I was working in Shanghai, part of my job was to visit parts suppliers (wiper motors, lamps, panels, etc) to inspect their production lines, inspection and product testing procedures.

 

Generally, the automated parts of the job were good; the mechanical forming, injection molding, coil winding and all processes performed by machines were all good. These machines were manufactured by sub contractors and had to be to the satisfaction of the customer. BUT, many processes were performed manually, by a large team of women, working for low wages, with production targets to be met.

 

Also relevant to this discussion, the biggest laugh was the product inspection room. The door was often blocked by piles of boxes or other stuff. Inside, they had all the latest testing equipment, but wipe your finger on the table or equipment and you would find a thick layer of dust. I would ask for a demonstration of the test equipment, but the operator was nearly always off sick that day. Despite what anyone tells you or what the brochure reads, product testing or even inspection, does NOT happen. The only inspection is the count, to make sure that they don't give you too many.

 

As for the lure production; the injection molding process will be very good. The results will be generally consistent and flawless in shape. I would have to question the actual design as a copy. It is unlikely that the weight distribution of the plastic would have been engineered to match the original.

 

Then comes the manual assembly line; a team of girls paid a few $$ to perform a simple operation thousands of times per day. Each operation probably takes no more than 5 seconds, from grinding of the sprue, inserting the hardware and gluing the halves, and every other operation involved.

 

Timing is everything. The production rate is the slowest operation. So if the longest operation is 6 seconds, then the production rate is 6,000 units for a ten hour shift. A 5 second maximum increases production to 7,200 per day. The floor manager will not give two hoots how round your lure nose is, whether there is a gap in the glue or a drip on the tail. All he is interested in, is the count on target. All the girls are thinking about, is keeping up, so that they have a job tomorrow.

 

I am not guessing or making this stuff up, I HAVE SEEN IT. This is the way things are in China. No one is demanding better quality, just lower prices, and that is what they deliver.

 

You can verify these numbers by looking at the unit retail price and thinking about the daily production costs: ten girls $10 each, two managers $100 each, Boss $1000, misc costs $200. Total costs per day = $1500, total product = 6000 units, cost per unit $0.25. This number is about right, after postage, packaging and mark-up of the middle man/importer/distributor.

 

Those distributors that are selling a better product at a slightly higher price, are either greedy OR they have found a supplier that is sensitive to the quality requirements and has slowed the production rate and included quality control in the loop. Such production shops do exist in China, I HAVE found them, they just take some effort to find.

 

If you only want to pay $0.60 per unit, it would be better to pay $0.50 and cut out the girls and assemble and finish yourself.

 

Dave

Edited December 28, 2015 by Vodkaman

[Zygotor]

A very interesting topic, although I can't comment on shelts lure blanks or any other US based seller (I'm located in Aus), I do have a bit of experience with lure blanks. Many would be surprised to know that a lot of the high end Jap lures, actually come out of Chinese factories. The bodies are made in China and are of a very high quality and then shipped to Japan for painting and attachment of hard ware.

 

I have been buying lure blanks for a few years from China and I have seen a lot of low end stuff, but there is also some very nice lure blanks available. The blanks I buy have an excellent finish, with perfect seams, stainless steel wire used and each lure swims true without any tuning. Each lure arrives in an individual plastic bag. 

 

One thing I learnt quick is that there is no such thing as copy write in the big bad world of lures. You can have a copy write within the manufacturer you deal with, but there is nothing stopping the lure manufacturer down the street making a complete copy.  A person could have any lure on the planet, in production within a couple of weeks, its that simple.

 

Some mentioned Wlure, I have purchased a few blanks over the years and they have some good blanks and some poor ones. It really all depends on the blank you want. Wlure don't buy all their blanks from the same manufacturer, that's why their quality differs.

 

Also some one mentioned lure molds costing $5000. If you are paying that much, you are getting ripped off. Depending on lure types, the production cost of a mold should be $1500-$2000 USD and will have no MOQ attached, as you own the mold.

[Cougarftd]

The funny thing is that I have found higher quality manufacturers...but, roughly 20% higher cost...they are perfect and ready for paint without much effort at all...people gripe they are too expensive and will go back to the junk because it is cheaper...

[Zygotor]

You are exactly right in people preferring junk. I don't sell lure blanks here is Aus, because there are too many ebayers selling the cheap stuff which people gravitate to, because of price.  I ordered a few blanks from one place to see the quality and out of the 5 lures I ordered. 3 had rusty shot inside the lure which prevented it from rattling. They all had cheap wire, the seams were raised and required sanding and to be honest they were only good for practicing painting, I would never swim one.

Edited December 30, 2015 by Zygotor

[KKBC]

How did I get dragged into this? Heh!

I am in no way affiliated with Eason Lee or Shelt's. I just made a review on some blanks I bought from him. I've found with Shelt's, as with just about every other supplier I've bought from, there are certain blanks that are better than others. Eason sells quite a few I like and I will continue to purchase from him. I had the same problem with the lipless baits from Shelt's that others on this thread have had but Eason stood behind them.

To each his own but I am not Shelt's, Eason nor Daniel1. Just an old fart that paints a few baits. I think in this day and age this is the part where I'm supposed to be offended and demand a safe zone or something!

Watt Keller

[Cougarftd]

I actually was just commenting on the fact that there really is a market for the cheap stuff...I would rather have and or sell quality. In my opinion you I would rather use and sell better quality but I don't begrudge those that want to save a few bucks. No harm was intended by my comments...sorry if I did not make it clear

[KKBC]

No problem Cougar. I just wanted to clear up that I wasn't connected in any way to any of the suppliers.

I actually agree with you. I pick and choose from each supplier which blanks I use. Of course it cost millions of dollars and countless number of lives to find out which blanks were the best from each. Eason sells a DD20 that I love for stripers and hybrids that I couldn't find anywhere that weren't trash. Good solid quality bait. I also paint his Fat Poppas. Playing with his CB D20 bubble bill now. I don't buy holos anywhere except Predator's transparent or make my own so I don't have a problem with Shelt's. You just live and learn but I'm always looking for a good blank and I don't mind paying for them when I find ones I like.

Now, about finding quality swimbaits........ Man! I will say though, if Eason ever sells that 5" 4 joint painted he sells in an unpainted I'll buy them in a heartbeat!

[Mr.t]

Square bills I got from shelts weren't that great, all the hangers in the baits looked slightly twisted,or most of them did.

[Centigrade]

I got my replacement baits from shelt and they are the same broken lures he sent the first time. He said he would send me the newer fixed version of them on my nex order. Not sure when that will be, depends if he had a blowout sale on his little johns, probably the only thing I liked that came in.

My order from dingers came in today! I'm very impressed with what I got. I'm in Canada and the dollar is killing me at 3-4$ a bait candian after shipping. Hands down wouldn't trade one bait for 5 of shelts.

[Mr.t]

Good to know I won't get anymore from them.the line tie is important to me,some I had may not even be able to tune

[Mr.t]

I wondered if they all were getting there stock from the same supplier or if some were better than others,good to know about dinger. But for the price may try to find name brand

on sale,and repaint them.

[Centigrade]

I don't think shelts baits all come from one spot. I do believe he attempts to fix the issues as they arise. I don't think he has good baits to compare to, like the ones we may have in our tackle boxes.

I still think shelts bait will catch fish. Good for practice painting, and kids need lures to. For shelts it's the a five dollar bargain bin because I have a conscious. This doesn't mean Jon Does 5 dollar buy doesn't have a spot on the top shelf of his tackle box. It's all about what you need/want.

[KKBC]

Sorry for taking so long to respond. I've been busy trying to hack up a lung.

Centigrade? So I don't have a conscience? Here, knock this battery off my shoulder! Heh!

Like I said above, each supplier has certain blanks that are better than others. And you'd be surprised at how many buy from the same place. Or from each other for that matter. I buy my 2.5s from one place, 1.5s from another, 110s somewhere else, deep divers at another, topwater somewhere else etc., etc., etc. Just takes time to figure it out. As was mentioned here, I too have The Box with hundreds of blanks that are excellent for practice and new color development since they are crap. Shelt's offers me some blanks I like and the quality is good. If they weren't I wouldn't be spending money on them.

[Centigrade]

I don't know if you're offended but it seems you misread my statement.

I cannot sell those lures for more then 5 dollars because it would give me a bad reputation. Shelts are great for the average guy looking for a 5 dollar lure, but it's just a 5 dollar lure.

I'm not telling anyone what is the best I'm just giving feedback. Not all of shelts lures are complete garbage. Everybody sells cheap lures, look at bass pro in the 1.00-2.99 section. My circumstance may be a bit different then yours is.

I fish in tournaments with hundreds of boats. Local pros that I have known since we were in grade-school are helping me test and advertise the baits I'm making. There clearly is a market for the cheap stuff and I'm sure that's what I can sell most of during tourist season.

In retrospective one persons opinion on quality may not be the same as the next persons.

I'm using testers sponsored by st.croix, bass tactics, hummingbird, venom lures, and Tokar. So maybe my standards for a good blank is setting the bar a bit high.

I feel like I'm going in circles on this subject. My testers are credible people and will be testing more baits this spring. I'm glad to share all feedback I get on the bait with TU.

[Vodkaman]

Local pros that I have known since we were in grade-school are helping me test and advertise the baits I'm making. There clearly is a market for the cheap stuff and I'm sure that's what I can sell most of during tourist season.

I found the above sentence confusing. Do you also 'make' your own baits or is your own design being manufactured by Shelts.

 

Dave

[KKBC]

No worries Centigrade, I was just yanking your chain. I don't run around spending my time getting offended.

Yes, we are talking in circles. A lot of that is just simply because it is a form of media where we don't really know each other. I've been lurking around this site for years but didn't create an account until I was called out by name. I'm just an old fart that paints a few baits and I rarely sell more than 6 to 10 in any given week. But they aren't even close to $5 baits. I got back into painting baits when I retired a few years ago. I do not market or have sites set up. Everything I do is by word of mouth. I've been developing paint schemes that are diametrically different for almost a year now. I have a few young guns fishing them in tourneys, and doing well, but I'm more of a big fish hunter. I used to make baits back in the 70s when we carved our own and Iwata just came out with the H series airbrush that opened it up for bait painters. Until then it was all hand brushed. I also used to fish the circuits back then but spent a lot of my time in the saltwater. I was a Merchant Mariner and only had 5 months a year to fish. Guided some on Okeechobee, grew up fishing all over the South and am a 3rd generation bass fisherman. I was Terry Bass when Terry Bass was cool. There is a little background so we understand each other.

I have gotten baits that need a lot of work regardless of where they come from. I've had $3 blanks I've had to epoxy bills on and $15 blanks that had hook eye problems that needed fixing. I buy from everywhere you do probably. Shelt's has some good quality blanks the same as Dinger, Predator, et al. You just have to weed through to find them. Like everywhere else. There, the circle is complete! Heh!

Will I market and sell baits? Who knows? Probably not. I leave that up to all you professionals. Right now what I do pays for itself and I'm having a lot of fun doing it. Nothing beats sticking a 10# LM, 6# Spot, 6# SM, 18# Hybrid, 30# Striper, etc. on something you've created. It is just a blast and that's pretty much where I'm at. I'm just simply enjoying myself. One thing I'd like to do before I kick off though is to design my own molds. Now that is something I'd really like to do one day! 

Edited January 14, 2016 by KKBC

[Centigrade]

Sorry vodkaman, yeah I get a bit carried away. Baits I'm painting my sponsored friends are helping advertise and test. I have made my own wooden popper before but it's just a varnished peice of driftwood with a flasher on the back. Makes a better decoration then a fishing lure.

[Centigrade]

Kkbc, ok I understand. Same idea I love painting baits and catching fish on them especially Muskie in Lake of the Woods. I may respond again later about a recent purchase I've made, I'm just waiting to hear back from the supplier.

[Vodkaman]

Centigrade - I hope you get more involved in the building side one day.

 

Dave

[Centigrade]

I've been using this site as a learning tool the past four years but only joined a few months back Dave. Right now I'm talking with a few painters, hard bait dealers and fly tiers. I personally love to bass fish, but if I was to make lures I would want to make Muskie lures. I think once I get really good at this painting thing my next step is going towards large Muskie lures. I'm probably of the topic by now but I have been looking to having my own bass baits made in China. It's a process because I don't want to go into selling large amounts unless I quit my day job. What's you take on Muskie baits? Carv your own or produce them in China?

Brent

[Vodkaman]

That is  a reasonable plan. I am actually thinking along the same lines. I have an advantage in that I am CAD proficient, which is essential unless you have deep pockets.

 

Dave

[SW Lures]

@ Dave

Being respectful to your CAD abilities, but you can create great baits with imagination, paper and a pencil. Takes some time to tweak your bait design. However to me that's one of the enjoyment of making original lures. Being here at TU just speeds the process up with people's ideas and opinions.

Take Care,

Dale

[Vodkaman]

Dale - Yes you can of course. But before the bait mold can be machined, it must be converted to the machine's language. I am already there.

 

My baits start the same way as yours; with imagination, a pencil and paper. Usually, as far as I go on CAD, would be some 2D PDF printouts for lips and body profiles, then to the wood shop. But lately I have been exploring new technology, were I can go from CAD directly to the mold. If the molded lure was successful, I could then go directly to the machine shop.

 

I get quite a few jobs, were I am sent a JPG file of a thumbnail sketch of a lure idea. I then take that sketch and create a 3D model that the machinist can work with. This is a time consuming service that has to be paid for. If you make a master and mold, you will never need my services.

 

While we're here, anyone contemplating getting a lure idea professionally CNC machined, SHOULD make a master and mold in RTV. Lures do not always work first time. It might take 2 or 3 or more prototypes before you get it to swim how you want, also the fish might not like it. Once you are happy with the lure, cast a few and send to the machinist. He may well be able to do the CAD work himself, if too complicated or time consuming, he will send it to someone like me.

 

Dave

Edited January 15, 2016 by Vodkaman

[KKBC]

Brent

I've got some baits up in WI that seem to be working well. I actually painted the scheme for a guy that fishes for walleye down here on Lake Burton and he told his family up there. They get upset because the Muskie keep tearing up their walleye baits. Heh! Other than grinnel, a few walleye and chain pickerel I don't have a lot of experience with toothy critters in freshwater. Guess I'll have to break out the shaving tools from back in the day and carve out some tooth proof hardwoods. Uh, no! I know they destroy plastic blanks and no amount of epoxy can stop that. Those are some seriously big motor scooters!

What is the norm for blanks for Muskie and pike? Something like a cedar? How do you keep paint on a bait? I triple clear some baits I use in saltwater and can get a good dozen strikes before the bait suffers too much but they are pretty much done after that. Plus I use a solvent based thicker paint and even that doesn't hold up. Guess I need to run a search and see if there are any threads on toothy critters and saltwater.   

Edited January 15, 2016 by KKBC