Trust Your Eye

[RayburnGuy]

Dave has fished his lures Travis, albeit without paint, and has won some local contests. Even going so far as to being banned from some of the competitions because his artificial lures out fished the live bait being used by the other competitors.

 

Ben

[Vodkaman]

Travis - If I was building a lure to sell as a fish catcher, then it would probably be a good idea to test it as such before making extortionate claims, however, I do not sell baits so this becomes a none issue.

 

Most of my lure work is exploring particular features, learning how to control the effects and predict the results. Most of my eight years of lure building was spent on hunting lures, to find the explanation for the zigzag motion and then find a way to build the hunter with 100% success rate. I finally nailed this particular project quite a while back.

 

Another general ongoing project, is to develop a lure dynamics theory, that explains the movements of all types of lures, as there cannot be one rule for cranks and another for swimbaits. This project is almost complete, but I still need to test it against jerks and gliders. I have a lot of work planned for jerks and gliders, as I have not done any work on these baits before.

 

I did a lot of work on jointed swimbaits, to determine the effect of ballast, joint cuts, types of hinges and their effect on the swim action. Most of my time has been on crank features.

 

Although I do not paint baits other than a few early attempts, that does not mean that I do not fish my baits occasionally. I am one of those that believes that action is way more important than color. The last bait that I developed was the Bawal, a shallow hunting crank. This was designed for a specific fish species stocked in a local pond. The lure was too successful and was banned on its first outing, as it took the main prize in a competition which was for largest fish.

 

I am currently developing a new lure that circumvents the rules that were introduced to ban my last lure, mainly that baits must be edible and weighted to sink. This new bait is a paddletail bluegill softbait poured from a jello type material. It is a new type of mold construction, utilizing 3D rapid prototype printing and will be poured by vacuum venting, to eliminate flash in this delicate, easily torn material. I am confident that I have solved the mold problems which have been plentiful and a costly four prototypes. Pouring should start in a couple of weeks and the lure development will continue from there. This lure will obviously be taken through swim tests, durability and fish catching.

 

A lot of projects lined up for the future, not all of them involving catching fish.

 

DAve

[mark poulson]

"Another general ongoing project, is to develop a lure dynamics theory, that explains the movements of all types of lures, as there cannot be one rule for cranks and another for swimbaits."

 

Now you're starting to scare me!

"One ring to rule them all."

[joetheplumber]

My suspending lures will be made for brackish and saltwater fishing for Speckled Trout...

[Vodkaman]

Mark - yes, in the world of physics, it is referred to as the Grand Unified Theory, which is one set of rules that applies to atomic physics AND regular classical physics, electromagnetics and all the rest.

 

The idea is that you can take any shape, and by applying a set of rules or guidelines, you can predict the movement of the object through water. Such a set of guidelines would be of great use in designing new types of lures or you could pick a certain movement that a creature makes and figure out the shape that would replicate that movement.

 

It is a long shot, but it is only my time that I am wasting.

 

Dave

[mark poulson]

Mark - yes, in the world of physics, it is referred to as the Grand Unified Theory, which is one set of rules that applies to atomic physics AND regular classical physics, electromagnetics and all the rest.

 

The idea is that you can take any shape, and by applying a set of rules or guidelines, you can predict the movement of the object through water. Such a set of guidelines would be of great use in designing new types of lures or you could pick a certain movement that a creature makes and figure out the shape that would replicate that movement.

 

It is a long shot, but it is only my time that I am wasting.

 

Dave

 

Do you have to factor in quantum weirdness?

[Vodkaman]

Mark - yes indeed, it is called build experience

 

I would say most experienced guys would be able to tell what a new lure is going to do in the water without knowing a thing about physics.

 

Dave

[diemai]

Dave , ......this sounds pretty much interesting to me , ..but yet very,very elaborate , too .

 

For this coming winter's lure building season I've also put some experimentals on my list , ......but not as elaborate as your plans , not by far ,........after having been lucky to obviously have gotten behind the secrets of perfect long casting properties on deep diving timber lures , I want to try to adapt these properties for shallow divers as well .

 

And , .....to get back to Mark's original topic , ......basically I do my lures similar to Mark as described in post #1 , ...I'd certainly trust my eye more than my marker lines on the blank ,......when having rounded off the back portion of a lure smooth , I'd even lay it on the workbench upright to see , whether it would cant over to one side .

 

Repeating this process for a few times would clearly detect little imperfections in terms of symetry of the rounding , at least if the blank keeps rolling over to one side only(if it rolls left or right to equal shares or even stands , the symetry is perfect).

 

Greetz , Dieter

[Vodkaman]

Dieter - I did a lot of work on hinged lips. This achieved a huge increase in casting distance. Shallow cranks are the biggest problem because the lip sticks out and spoils the airflow, doing what the lip is supposed to do by creating turbulence. I cannot remember the exact numbers, but a 30% increase in casting distance sounds reasonable.

 

Dave

[diemai]

@ Vodkaman

 

The protruding shallow diver's lip, ......exactly the problem !

 

I had read about your hinged lips in here before , but I intent to go without such  , just a forward pointing, small lip and the line tie to the nose of the lure, .......a Pikie style lip(also called "Z-lip")is another option .

 

Off course I would have to make sacrifices in terms of swimming action limitations this way , but I believe , that the expected more or less tighter wiggle patterns are just right to have an appeal on local pike .

 

Please go to YouTube and type in "New Homemade Crankbaits October 2015" into the search function , .....amongst others there is an experimental lure displayed in there , .....sporting a long and pointy lip and has it's line tie to the nose , ....I'll attach a picture of it to this post , ..........in the video I'm making some words about the long casting properties of this particular lure , .....so this basic body design with it's more voluminous rear portion of a fairly long and slender body and a forward pointing lip is going to be the base of my experiments .

 

What I've found is , that this particular lure yet dives deeper than stated in that video , ....10 to 11 feet is closer to reality , I'd say , ....so if I could get a lure of such or similar body shape to dive to 2 to 4 feet still retaining it's unmatched casting performance(not shown in the video , but cast's even better compared to the deep diver's casting performance displayed) .

 

And a somewhat increased wiggle compared to this lure shown on attached picture would be neccessary as well , but strictly keeping the forward pointing lip angle and the fatter rear of body for casting performance .

 

I know , that one can't trick the laws of physics(that I am not even familiar to ) , but I'm quite certain , that I could come up with something useful !

 

Greetings , Dieter

 

[Vodkaman]

Dieter - For a shallow swim, the Aussie broad back is a good idea, as it forces the lure to swim flat and allows a lot of rear weight for casting. Combined with the pointed lip for tighter action, mounted at a shallow angle for casting, I think you have it cracked.

 

 

DAve

[mark poulson]

Great video and lures Dieter!

In my limited crankbait making, I have found that, for smaller bass lures, 3-4", putting the ballast as close to the belly hook hanger, so the center of gravity is there, really increases the wiggle.

I also find that a longer lure body seems to cast better than a short, stubby body, and to be more stable on the retrieve.  Maybe it's more aerodynamic and hydrodynamic, too.

I just made my first homemade pointy lipped cranks, copies of an older Bandit crank, and they both cast really well, with a wide wiggle, which was a surprise.

Here are a couple of pics from the Hard Bait Gallery:

 

http://www.tackleunderground.com/community/gallery/image/15244-homemade-bandits/

http://www.tackleunderground.com/community/gallery/image/15242-homemade-bandit-3/

 

I put 1 gram lead balls above the belly hook hanger to make a one knocker rattle.  The second pic shows the location, as well as the lip shape.

I wonder if the more curved, banana shape of these lures, along with the thinner tail, enhance the wiggling, too.

Anyway, they both swim well, and the smaller one has already caught multiple fish.

[diemai]

@ Vodkaman

 

Dave , thanks a lot for ponting out that "Aussie Broadback" for a shallow swim , ......haven't even thought about such,.....a must try ! 

 

@ mark poulson

 

Exactly my findings too , ...a longer body provides more stability , both in terms of casting AND retrieving .

 

Also a curved body does enhance the wiggle , as the downward pointing tail end acts like f. e. the depth rudder of a submarine leading the lure downward , BUT , ......in opposition to a submarine a lure does not have any guiding rudders to keep a straight course and retain straight guidance , thus this downward motion of the lure also transists into a sideward motion , only limited and finally reversed by the force and direction of the line pull AND the increasing pressure on the upward pointing side of the diving bill at that very moment .

 

So this is the cause of the more pronounced wobble of curved lurebodies , ....at least im my little mind bare of any knowledge of physics .

 

Greetings , Dieter

[SW Lures]

The curved tail is what I'm using in one of my baits. It's not wide like the Aussie's Broadback, but goes below the body of the bait and is thin (opposite from the Broadback). The tail is the height of the bait, the curve breaks downward from the middle of the bait to the tail hanger. This bait has a highly active wiggle.

I want to widen the tail just a little near the body and see what this does to the action of the bait. My guess is that the change will create a more open wiggle (tight wobble). The body is large compared to the length of the bait.

This bait is a unusual design all together. First design I made for a young Lady who is a accomplished fishing person and a accomplished kayaker at a young age. She likes fishing for Smallies in moderate fast water and I hope this bait is the trick. All my test shows it will be.

Ultimately the fish will let her know for sure.

Dale

Edited November 6, 2015 by DaleSW

[mark poulson]

I would have thought the curved, thin tail section would have created some kind of a pressure difference between the convex top and concave bottom, giving the tail more lift, like an airplane's wing.

I'm not sure exactly what effect that would have on the lure's action, but it might reduce the tail's water resistance enough to allow for more wiggle.

Or not.

Fun to speculate.  Without one of the flow tanks it's pretty hard for me to be sure.

All I am sure of is that those lures do wiggle.

[Vodkaman]

Mark - regarding the curved rear, it does create the effect that you are talking about, and in my early testing I was convinced that laminar aerodynamics were at work. But this did not fit with the turbulent flow at work from a crankbaits lip. The explanation that works with turbulent theory, is that the convex top/back presents less area to balance the lip. This allows the lip to rotate down further until a balance is reached. Conversely, a concave rear curvature has the opposite effect and will make the lure swim flat and shallow.

 

Dave

Edited November 6, 2015 by Vodkaman

[diemai]

@ Vodkaman

 

Thanks a lot for that statement , Dave , .......never would have thought about a concave rear end to enhance shallow running , ......this would surely come very useful for my plans on designing shallow running and long casting lures , .......your knowledge about hydronomics and physics is unmatched in here !

 

Thanks , Dieter

[RayburnGuy]

Could someone post a link to this "Aussie Broad Back" lure? I can't seem to find it.

 

thanks,

 

Ben

[SW Lures]

http://www.tackleunderground.com/community/uploads/monthly_10_2015/post-31433-0-70058800-1445100288.jpg

Here Rayguy and Dieter had one in his video that he designed. I assume this is one.

By the way Dieter my young buddy that I was talking about ^^^^. She was fascinated with your video and the design of your baits. After a time of trying to explain, I believe I have gave your baits justice. Very Nice.

Dale

Edited November 6, 2015 by DaleSW

[diemai]

Seems to me , that a little confusion about that "Aussie Broadback Lure" did occur , ......I reckon , that Dave had initially refered to the lure shown in the picture attached . 

[diemai]

Sorry , somehow it did not work out to edit my post above !

 

Dale , ..the lure , that you have kindly linked there , looks more like a "Kadaitcha" to me , a lure model designed by famous Australian luremaker Peter Newell(1945-2009) , in an orbituary published on occassion of his passing I've read , that he was inspired by an American lure named "Bagley's Smoo".

 

My own lure pictured above was inpired by the Australian "Stump Jumper" , yet more flat and with a "V"-shaped belly cross-section , I've made a handful of this style during past years.

 

I reckon , that Dave has just named it "Australian Broadback" on his own terms ,......that's why you could not find anything about it , Ben .,.......but if you'd like some more info or pictures , just call back in .

 

Greetz , Dieter

[Vodkaman]

Sorry for any confusion. Diemai is correct, I was referring to a general style of lure shape adopted by Australian builders.

 

Dave

[RayburnGuy]

Thanks guys. I was a wee bit confused and as normal you nice folks have bailed me out.

 

A friend and I were talking about the Bagley Smoo not too long ago Dieter. When it first came out it was a hot lure around here before falling to the wayside like so many lures do.

 

Ben

Edited November 7, 2015 by RayburnGuy

[diemai]

Ben , .....I remember , that someone  in here had mentioned this lure a good while ago , ........maybe it was you or Mark , don't recall anymore , .......still available though , as there are a handful of listings for this lure on US Ebay currently .

 

Greetings , Dieter

[SW Lures]

I assumed that the name broadback was a general terminology for the style that the Aussie' s do that has a wider back shape then a height measurement. I also thought that most have a bent side view, with a somewhat cupped tail. Is my thinking of the terminology correct?

If not.......OOOPS! Sorry.

Dale